Growth in MLS

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imitationleather said:
In a similar way to how the traditional European prestige clubs will always hold their attraction even if the clubs themselves are performing poorly in competitions, the traditional prestige leagues will forever be a bigger draw. The MLS can't hope to compete with that, but I don't think it is trying to anyway. It can still be successful, but becoming more popular than even Ligue Un (which is pretty shit to watch in the main) is just not happening. It's like how the Chinese league is having barely any impact globally despite its money.
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No I didsagree about this. People said the same about man city, blackbirn rovers, chelsea and so on. If the moneys good the players will go.

The US is a rich country with lots of great cities to live in. English is the universal language.

Once the US teams start paying the money. The players will go there. You also have to remember that south amercians couldnt care less if playing in Madrid or New York. As long as the money is right.
 
Biff said:
Still a few generations to go for me but I think it will get there. Reality is that your average American still doesn't give a fuck about soccer. In Italy and France it's the national sport. And whilst MLS clubs won't ever get into the Champions League it isn't seriously going to attract or retain the best players.
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Theres nothing to stop them organising their own champions league in South and North america
 
THFC-Israel said:
until football becomes a bigger sport and a bigger attraction than Baseball\'Egghand'\Basketball\Hockey (in some places) the MLS will never produce enough quality players.

European Leagues will also continue to enjoy the prestige of the continental trophies like the CL.

But I do see the PL and CL starting to hold some matches in the US within 5-10 years
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Disagree with this.

There are 350m or so people in the US. There are 10m in Portugal. 15 in Holland.

Football doesnt need to be anywhere near the most popular sport for the USA to compete with the best. It just needs good and established infrastructure. With more and more MLS clubs. They will set up networks around them to get the best youngsters into the teams.
 
VoiceOfThePoshSeats said:
Theres nothing to stop them organising their own champions league in South and North america
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Yep these already exist though. Copa Libertadores and the CONCACAF Champions League respectively.

Aside from them being separate continents - main point is that it's the UEFA Champions League where people want to play from all over the world, obviously that is always going to mean playing in Europe.
 
MLS is an absolute dog shit league, only a small number of teams get good attendances, half average below 20k. The quality is terrible as well. The format is complete bollocks too. They've imposed an American structure of franchises, no promotion or relegation and the league winners decided via play offs. It'll never be a relevant league.
 
Biff said:
Yep these already exist though. Copa Libertadores and the CONCACAF Champions League respectively.

Aside from them being separate continents - main point is that it's the UEFA Champions League where people want to play from all over the world, obviously that is always going to mean playing in Europe.
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its who pays the money mate. not for the love of the game
 
NW1Spur said:
MLS is an absolute dog shit league, only a small number of teams get good attendances, half average below 20k. The quality is terrible as well. The format is complete bollocks too. They've imposed an American structure of franchises, no promotion or relegation and the league winners decided via play offs. It'll never be a relevant league.
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have you seen serie A lately?
 
imitationleather said:
In a similar way to how the traditional European prestige clubs will always hold their attraction even if the clubs themselves are performing poorly in competitions, the traditional prestige leagues will forever be a bigger draw. The MLS can't hope to compete with that, but I don't think it is trying to anyway. It can still be successful, but becoming more popular than even Ligue Un (which is pretty shit to watch in the main) is just not happening. It's like how the Chinese league is having barely any impact globally despite its money.
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I can see MLS displacing any league outside the Premier League in terms of popularity with the U.S. audience. Being an MLS fan and being EPL fan (or any European league really) are largely complementary from a U.S. perspective. The games don't overlap due to the time zone differences and the teams don't compete so there is no split loyalties. EPL can only be consumed through the TV whereas MLS offers a matchday experience. The level play is very watchable and the competition lacks the predictability of the bigger European leagues. Lots of selling points that maybe don't apply to the global audience but I think EPL is fairly unique along with the champions league with its global appeal while most of the other leagues are primarily just followed by the locals.
 
VoiceOfThePoshSeats said:
have you seen serie A lately?
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Games involving the top teams are major events of all interest to football fans worldwide but who gives a fuck about Seattle Sounders Vs Chicago whatever? It'll never be relevant, the clubs don't have proper histories, they're just franchises that have been bought. That's so alien to worldwide football fan culture, as are the stupid names they come up with like Orlando Pirates.
 
NW1Spur said:
stupid names they come up with like Orlando Pirates.
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Those names are so much better than a lot of the recent attempts at european-style names, though. Inter Miami and Real Salt Lake... Oh dear.

I actually do occasionally watch MLS (I watched LA Galaxy v Vancouver Whitecaps last night, as it happens) and want it to grow and become relevant with American audiences. What I'm disagreeing with is that it will ever have the clout to compete with the bigger european leagues in terms of prestige. It just can't. It's the same as Man City reckoning one day they can replace Real Madrid as the most famous football team. It won't happen even if they win the next ten Premier League titles. These things are about more than money and having a current team packed with galacticos. Establishing a marquee name in the sport takes a long time, and I think the era when those names can be established is basically passed now.
 
I think there are three separate questions when it comes to the development of MLS into a globally competitive league worth considering on the level of the top European leagues

1. What is the overall level of interest in soccer in the United States?
2. How much of the market for soccer in the United States is MLS capturing, as opposed to foreign leagues?
3. How committed is MLS to investing the returns from the revenue it gains into maximizing the quality of its teams?

1 has shot up by leaps and bounds over the past 15-20 years. Night and day. There might be some evidence it's plateauing a bit though.

2 I would say still represents a big challenge, as the PL, CL, and Liga MX among Mexican and Mexican ancestry fans are very popular and are investing heavily in further colonizing the market, they aren't just going to concede the US soccer market to MLS without a fight.

3 remains a pretty big issue. The single-entity structure and collectively bargained salary structure of the league present significant impediments to maximizing the quality of teams, both in terms of overall investment and quality-per-dollar. And while some clubs are constantly pushing that envelope, others are free riders on the growth of the league and without relegation have no incentive to change their ways.

If we're doing buy, sell, hold like a stock, I'd say MLS is a hold at this point. That might be too pessimistic based on the level of growth that there has been in the last decade, but I would need to see a lot more penetration into major markets to see breaking out of niche status in the short-to-medium term future.

The Chicago Fire are going to give it a shot next year moving to Soldier Field. I think the outcome of that project will be very instructive in showing the direction things are headed.
 
FightingIllini said:
I think there are three separate questions when it comes to the development of MLS into a globally competitive league worth considering on the level of the top European leagues

1. What is the overall level of interest in soccer in the United States?
2. How much of the market for soccer in the United States is MLS capturing, as opposed to foreign leagues?
3. How committed is MLS to investing the returns from the revenue it gains into maximizing the quality of its teams?

1 has shot up by leaps and bounds over the past 15-20 years. Night and day. There might be some evidence it's plateauing a bit though.

2 I would say still represents a big challenge, as the PL, CL, and Liga MX among Mexican and Mexican ancestry fans are very popular and are investing heavily in further colonizing the market, they aren't just going to concede the US soccer market to MLS without a fight.

3 remains a pretty big issue. The single-entity structure and collectively bargained salary structure of the league present significant impediments to maximizing the quality of teams, both in terms of overall investment and quality-per-dollar. And while some clubs are constantly pushing that envelope, others are free riders on the growth of the league and without relegation have no incentive to change their ways.

If we're doing buy, sell, hold like a stock, I'd say MLS is a hold at this point. That might be too pessimistic based on the level of growth that there has been in the last decade, but I would need to see a lot more penetration into major markets to see breaking out of niche status in the short-to-medium term future.

The Chicago Fire are going to give it a shot next year moving to Soldier Field. I think the outcome of that project will be very instructive in showing the direction things are headed.
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The TV rights/markets will also impact how fast it can grow I guess. Like, are all the games on one national station or are they split up on regional networks or not.

A bigger, national TV deal will obviously generate more money compared to if say New England is stuck on a New England/East Coast network for the majority of their games.
 
Stopspot said:
The TV rights/markets will also impact how fast it can grow I guess. Like, are all the games on one national station or are they split up on regional networks or not.

A bigger, national TV deal will obviously generate more money compared to if say New England is stuck on a New England/East Coast network for the majority of their games.
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Well it's both right? It's like the NBA, there's a big national deal for select games in prime time slots, and then the rest of a team's games are sold as a local package.

MLS has been much more popular as an in-person attendance product than a TV product to this point.
 
NW1Spur said:
Games involving the top teams are major events of all interest to football fans worldwide but who gives a fuck about Seattle Sounders Vs Chicago whatever? It'll never be relevant, the clubs don't have proper histories, they're just franchises that have been bought. That's so alien to worldwide football fan culture, as are the stupid names they come up with like Orlando Pirates.
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I'm not sure what you're saying here? No other city can have a club anymore because they didn't have one early enough to have a history? Of course they're franchises that are bought with no history at this point. How else could a new league come into existence?

It's a step below MLS, but here in Canada we are nearly through our inaugural season in the Canadian Premier League. All these franchises are new (though some of ours have had some carryover from prior attempts and even lower leagues). Are we not legitimate enough for you because there's not enough history? Ridiculous.

Fact is, there's a large and growing presence for football in North America. We might not have the history at this point, but how do you just "get" a history? It has to start somewhere.

I do agree with the terrible naming though. I can't decide what the worst is...maybe Real Salt Lake?
 
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