• The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

How do you grade our transfer window?

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Modder1440 said:
Like yourself, I always support my players. But to say Winks is better than Barkley at current level is a little unfair to Barkley. Base on what?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Based on a very average Everton team being no better or worse off whether he plays or not.
He's a player of very little impact, who is supposed to offer us pace and goals from midfield but who has 21 goals in 150 appearances. About 7 a season....same as Jenas.

Not obviously defining, but look at the types of players they are from their highlights reels. I know which one Id back to be the bigger player in a couple of seasons.



 
JohnH said:
When I look at the ins and the outs from the window...

Ins
Davinson Sanchez (Ajax, undisclosed)
Paulo Gazzaniga (Southampton, undisclosed)
Juan Foyth (Estudiantes, undisclosed)
Serge Aurier (Paris St Germain, undisclosed)
Fernando Llorente (Swansea, undisclosed)

Outs
Kyle Walker (Manchester City, £50m)
Nabil Bentaleb (Schalke, £16m)
Clinton Njie (Marseille, £5.95m)
Federico Fazio (Roma, £2.7m)
Connor Ogilvie (Gillingham, loan)
Luke McGee (Portsmouth, undisclosed)
Josh Onomah (Aston Villa, loan)
Cameron Carter-Vickers (Sheffield United, loan)
Kevin Wimmer (Stoke, £18m)
Will Miller (Burton, undisclosed)

... I think it's been a very good one.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

When looking at that it's a very good window. The one thing that does stand out however is the amount of outs we have had compared to ins. For a relatively small squad this is either excellent for our youth players or leaves us a bit flimsy in certain areas.

5 in and 10 out definitely shows me that we have to move on before we buy, the loans show that Onomoah and CCV really need to develop more to push this first team and that we were probably after a couple more players to ensure we had enough quality all over.

All in all a new RB when Trippier was being touted as our new first choice RB, two of the most promising defenders globally to integrate into our philosophy and first team based on warrant and an experienced head to help the team in Llorente, not to mention a genuine plan B to hit teams that sit deep against us leaves us far healthier this year than last. Barkley and the next Sadio Mane next, with Sessegnon for the future and a little wizard apprentice for Eriksen and we'll continue our wise growth as we have done this summer. Now we focus on the football
 
sammyspurs said:
He's 21, and playing in the most difficult position on the pitch with confidence and his vision and passing range are already superior to Dier's in my opinion.
He is tenacious in the tackle, and has all the attributes to be a Modric type but with Scott Parkers aggression.

Yes, he's still young and learning...so why stifle it and spend money on an injured and quite frankly vey average player that also needs developing by Poch. Barkley is a project, so in that sense Winks is already streets ahead.

The question on my lips isnt what has Winks proven, but has Barkley done that so many, Poch included, want him.
I see basically James Milner, only with less impact on a game.



What a ridiculous comparison.
As for the "coming on when everyone else is fucked", funny because I thought we were all pining after quality back up so our squad could compete......now it seems you dont need quality on the bench after all.
Just sign Charlie Adam then and bring him on when the oppo is tired....
:lennon:



The entire team failed that game, bizarre to pick out Winks.....not sure how you know what Poch told him to do either but there you go.....we played a dangerously inept highline indicating the plan was to press Burnley back into their half.
I saw nothing that suggested Winks should have been covering the back 4 who were already sitting on the halfway line.



Its not premature, because the guy has what it takes...he just inexperienced. Winks will develop a lot faster if he's used. Again, I point to Barkley, and wonder what makes him better, other than he's played more PL games, so obviously has more goals etc.
Plus, he's one of our own....you cant buy that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A comprehensive and public buggering there, Sammy.
 
sammyspurs said:
Based on a very average Everton team being no better or worse off whether he plays or not.
He's a player of very little impact, who is supposed to offer us pace and goals from midfield but who has 21 goals in 150 appearances. About 7 a season....same as Jenas.

Not obviously defining, but look at the types of players they are from their highlights reels. I know which one Id back to be the bigger player in a couple of seasons.



Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


I think Barkley is a brute who should be further advanced than he is at his age. Winksy has a long way to go but could make it. I think Tottenham is the best club for both of them to see how far they can advance and for £20m in January, in today's market we should be all over Barkley (Kevin Wimmer a backup defender cost £18m after all)

I'm pro Ross. He wants to develop, isn't in a rush for a move based on winning and money like so others are it seems, he wants to be a better footballer. With that kind of attitude I say bring him in, throw him into the deep end against the likes of Dembele, Eriksen and Alli and see I felt he's got the minerals
 
pipes said:
This talk about Winks being the next big thing for us, so let's not sign anyone in his position reminds me of when Arsen Wenger would justify his transfer market malaise. He'd say that he could sign a new midfielder, but it would "kill Denilson". Denilson did a pretty good job of that himself by being rubbish.

If Winks is going to be good enough for us, he should have to prove it against world class competition for his place. A few very decent cameo appearances so far suggests he may become great, but there's always a chance of regression.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm not sure he's actually shown any signs of anything that leads him to be a "great" prospect, but then again Deschamps made an impressive career out of being a "water carrier" so it's not the worst thing in the world. I believe that with a bit of adventure he could become more Lampard like in terms of midfield contribution, but he will need to stay central and start scoring to seal a place in the team.
 
Mick Cooper said:
I'm not sure he's actually shown any signs of anything that leads him to be a "great" prospect, but then again Deschamps made an impressive career out of being a "water carrier" so it's not the worst thing in the world. I believe that with a bit of adventure he could become more Lampard like in terms of midfield contribution, but he will need to stay central and start scoring to seal a place in the team.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Winksy needs to start being prepared to make mistakes in games. He's very comfortable passing and retaining possession, which is great for the last 10 minutes when seeing a game out but not from the off when you need to take chances and risks for rewards.

I'd like Winks to try and base his game around Fabregas. Play him in some U23 games and tell him to try the daring forward pass, the skip around someone when nothing's on to win a free kick. I think Winksy is a clean cut, sound and able footballer but to take it to the next level he needs to play in the u23s, drop a shoulder and be prepared to make mistakes. He's proved he can be a first team squad member, now he should go back to the drawing board and continue adding more strings to his bow IMO.

Keep it up Winksy, all of Tottenham want you to do well
 
sammyspurs said:
Based on a very average Everton team being no better or worse off whether he plays or not.
He's a player of very little impact, who is supposed to offer us pace and goals from midfield but who has 21 goals in 150 appearances. About 7 a season....same as Jenas.

Not obviously defining, but look at the types of players they are from their highlights reels. I know which one Id back to be the bigger player in a couple of seasons.



Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I don't think those videos do your argument any favours mate.
First of all, Winks looks like he is going to be a terrific player, but he does not do all that much in those clips. Second, it shows how different they are as players. Winks is "box-to-box" but generally gets the ball 15 or 20 yards deeper than Barkley.
A better comparison would be to put up videos of Barkley and Sissoko and ask which one we would rather have.
At junior level, Barkley regularly kept Kane out of the England team, the potential is all there for Poch to unlock.
 
Jenny Talia said:
I don't think those videos do your argument any favours mate.
First of all, Winks looks like he is going to be a terrific player, but he does not do all that much in those clips.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I think he does a great deal in those videos in terms of breaking up play and quickly turning the counter attack in our favour. Excellent distribution and vision, and a smart player who can easily switch play to the other flank.

Looks very intelligent to me when he plays, and I see more Modric than I do in Barkley, who I see more Zaha

Jenny Talia said:
Second, it shows how different they are as players. Winks is "box-to-box" but generally gets the ball 15 or 20 yards deeper than Barkley.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Agree....first thing I noticed, so either he wont stifle Winks at all, which is a good thing, or we play a different way with Barkley and miss out on that Modric/Hoddle touch later down the line.

Jenny Talia said:
A better comparison would be to put up videos of Barkley and Sissoko and ask which one we would rather have.
At junior level, Barkley regularly kept Kane out of the England team, the potential is all there for Poch to unlock.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Probably a better comparison, but Sissoko isnt used centrally for us, so a little unfair on him there too.
I guess diversity is a good thing, but not at any price, and not at the cost of Winks game time, in my opinion.
 
sammyspurs said:
Based on a very average Everton team being no better or worse off whether he plays or not.
He's a player of very little impact, who is supposed to offer us pace and goals from midfield but who has 21 goals in 150 appearances. About 7 a season....same as Jenas.

Not obviously defining, but look at the types of players they are from their highlights reels. I know which one Id back to be the bigger player in a couple of seasons.



Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Thanks for your reply sammy. If you are predicting performance of players in a couple of seasons thats matter of opinion. At the top of their game Barkley could dribble 3 players and score. 21 goals in 150 games isnt breathtaking but how many has Winks scored? Current achievement Barkley certainly edges. Future achievement is a matter of opinion and despite I disagree with yours, I fully respect.
If we fail to sign Barkley, I would love to be proven wrong
 
Modder1440 said:
Thanks for your reply sammy. If you are predicting performance of players in a couple of seasons thats matter of opinion. At the top of their game Barkley could dribble 3 players and score. 21 goals in 150 games isnt breathtaking but how many has Winks scored? Current achievement Barkley certainly edges. Future achievement is a matter of opinion and despite I disagree with yours, I fully respect.
If we fail to sign Barkley, I would love to be proven wrong
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

To be fair Winks has 21 appearances in his total career for us and is a playmaker/breaker rather than an attacking forward mid.

If Barkley is able to dribble through three players and score, Im yet to see it.

You talk about predicting future achievement being an opinion, well its the same for people thinking Barkley will be great under Poch. He may not be, and I dont see what he has really done.

Id be happy to sign him on a free, now he has injury problems, and dont doubt he has talent to be coached.
 
sammyspurs said:
To be fair Winks has 21 appearances in his total career for us and is a playmaker/breaker rather than an attacking forward mid.

If Barkley is able to dribble through three players and score, Im yet to see it.

You talk about predicting future achievement being an opinion, well its the same for people thinking Barkley will be great under Poch. He may not be, and I dont see what he has really done.

Id be happy to sign him on a free, now he has injury problems, and dont doubt he has talent to be coached.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'd take a punt on him in a January. He'll hopefully end up costing half a Kevin Wimmer, which for the risk/ reward is far too good to turn down.

If it doesn't work out well we'll get our money back, plus more from, a team like Newcastle or Stoke.

Ross is taking a chance with us for footballing reasons and I admire his courage in a time where players take the easy way out to fame, success and dollar. I hope he joins Spurs and becomes the player he clearly thinks he's capable of becoming. If anyone is going to get it out of him it's Pochettino
 
Mick Cooper said:
But.....but....
You are clueless

If you could interpret and analyse the clues that pretty much everyone who responds to you, lays before you - you'd go and stop posting here.
But here you are, ladling your negative waves over all of us, yet again.

So by default, you are clueless.

You seem to know bugger all about what it is to support Spurs, or football in general, as well

PS
Bwahahaha
Disliked by mindless and his twin brother John Thomas.

John Thomas in British

noun
a jocular word for penis
Collins English Dictionary. Copyright © HarperCollins
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Bugger off old man you know fuck all about modern football.

Stick to 50s football.
 
Fidel Castro said:
Everybody told me Tripps was better than
Walker. They tell you anything till he's signs
Or he remains crap if he goes to the chavs.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I dont think its about that at all....no one has said Barkley is crap from what Ive read either.

I think the real parallel is this:

Had we Ross Barkley in the form he is now, I mean, because thats the only Ross Barkley that exists....not this vision of what Poch could build. Id be willing to bet that most of those craving for him would indeed be calling him an under whelming flop, who needs a loan or "shipping off asap".

Had Everton brought through a young Harry Winks, much like the unproven, done nothing Sessengon, most of the same people would be creaming their pants and demanding Levy spend 25M on him.

Sigh
 
MindBlown said:
Bugger off old man you know fuck all about modern football.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

And clearly neither do you

MindBlown said:
Poch has said we are going to buy 4 players (whose fees likely to exceed over 100m).

Doesn't spending 100+m not equals "spending big"?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

MindBlown said:
Poch 100% agrees with me, we have to spend and we are going to spend big.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

80M outlay, 89M in......positive 9M net spend and 5 players in. You know fuck all about Spurs.
You're completely disconnected to what the club is doing

 
sammyspurs said:
To be fair Winks has 21 appearances in his total career for us and is a playmaker/breaker rather than an attacking forward mid.

If Barkley is able to dribble through three players and score, Im yet to see it.

You talk about predicting future achievement being an opinion, well its the same for people thinking Barkley will be great under Poch. He may not be, and I dont see what he has really done.

Id be happy to sign him on a free, now he has injury problems, and dont doubt he has talent to be coached.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Everton’s Ross Barkley Dribbles 70 Yards, Scores Against Newcastle (GIF)
 
Bazali said:
And you do??

Mr Cooper has forgotten more about football than you will ever know!

Now fuck off and join melters like Triple Spur

I don't believe either of you are Spurs!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's funny how 50 years of constantly studying the game and it's developments makes you know less than people who have been doing the same thing for half the time.
And in that whole period, apart from a sometimes over zealous attitude towards dishing out red and yellow cards (which were introduced in that period) pretty much all that's changed is to make the offside law as complicated as is humanly possible and not allowing backpasses to the goalkeeper.
But the pitches look less like beaches and it now costs more to watch on TV than it did to actually rock up at the ground, so that's probably why someone like me doesn't understand the game any more.
It's not about skill or tactics, defending, tackling, scoring or teamwork anymore it's all about......
Oh!
Football manager! The box that convinces you that you know fucking everything.

:)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top