Huddlestone

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Good points made... Reverse Tactic by ChrisOTDH could work!!!
I think with Wigan we need to make sure we are ahead at the break, we cant give them any hope for 2nd half.
Hudd 1st Half to hopefully kill game off.
Parker 2nd Half to shore it up, create crop cirlcles ,run down the clock, play safe etc
 

WookieD

wharrgarbl 💫
Whilst I'd agree he's working as an impact sub, the Parker/Dembele partnership just doesn't offer any service to the attack outside of isolated runs forward. We've seen on three occassions the stark difference having a CM that looks to pass the ball out makes and on each occassion that has almost been at the death knell. whether it is Tom Carroll or Huddlestone, I would like to see what we can do with a passing midfield option for a full 90.

In actual fact, I would be interested to see that 4-3-3 played again truth be told. Not only did Huddlestone start to dictate our tempo, it improved Dembele's game and we saw a real insight to what Holtby might be able to offer. Holtby seems to have a frenetic engine, if we can stop him from making rash challenges, I think he will be a brilliant presser of the ball out of possession.

Him and Dembele hunting the ball then pushing in possession with Huddlestone holding seems like a good option to me.
 

WookieD

wharrgarbl 💫
He's doing really well coming off the bench so I think we should stick with what's working
It isn't working though, for 60/70 minutes we are getting absolutley fucked over and then relying on a final burst to rebalance the odds. Granted, that has been against high calibre teams (I include Basel in that statement as they play better football than 90% of the teams I have seen in Europe this season), but wouldn't you rather come out swinging for a game?
 
Good points made... Reverse Tactic by ChrisOTDH could work!!!
I think with Wigan we need to make sure we are ahead at the break, we cant give them any hope for 2nd half.
Hudd 1st Half to hopefully kill game off.
Parker 2nd Half to shore it up, create crop cirlcles ,run down the clock, play safe etc

I would actually say the opposite. Parker to make sure they dont have any advantage going into the last 30-35 minutes, Hudd to come on and exploit the inevitable space created as they open up and chase a win.

For the same reasoning Defoe on the bench until later on as well. Pretty much like yesterday.

Though Ive seen enough of Holtby now to consider him istead of Parker.
 

WookieD

wharrgarbl 💫
You are disagreeing that Huddlestone's substitute appearances have been recently effective this season? That's the topic at hand here.
The topic at hand is whether he should be an impact sub or play a full ninety. I'm saying that having our pants pulled down for the first 70 is wearing thin and I'd risk him getting a start.
 
I am very happy to see him doing well now.

Had all but written him off completely.

Personally I still think he should be used as impact sub. Same as others have said already.

The issue of the dysfunctional axis of Parker & Dembélé is not the same discussion. This axis IMHO needs to be broken up ASAP. It is the source of many of our problems. Obviously not our back four losing their marks nor the forwards squandering chances, but the problems of controlling the pace of games and making the ball move intelligently. Both of MD and SP rush forward ill timed, and while Dembélés one and only instinct ever is taking the ball forward again and again, Parker is not good enough to keep play flowing smartly nor sufficiently quick.

Against Wigan I would probably start Livermore or preferably Carroll alongside Dembélé just to get a static player, who will last all game long.
 

WookieD

wharrgarbl 💫
NorseYid NorseYid , the Parker/Dembele partnership has to be the same discussion as it is Huddlestone that is coming on every game to break that partnership up.

If you agree that they shouldn't start together then one of Gylfi/Holtby/Hudd/Carroll has to start in their place. If you don't think Hudd, then who would you start? Personally (going with the original topic of "does Huddlestone deserve to start?") I think he should.
 
NorseYid NorseYid , the Parker/Dembele partnership has to be the same discussion as it is Huddlestone that is coming on every game to break that partnership up.

If you agree that they shouldn't start together then one of Gylfi/Holtby/Hudd/Carroll has to start in their place. If you don't think Hudd, then who would you start? Personally (going with the original topic of "does Huddlestone deserve to start?") I think he should.

I may be unfairly biased from his long, long injury lay off, but with his frame and well documented fitness issues (as stamina over a game rather than injury problems) I'd much rather let him come on later.

Football only allows for 3 subs and it is always a tactical shackle to start players, whom you are almost certain will not last the course.

I much prefer Holtby and (a fit) Huddlestone to Livermore and (at this stage) Carroll. However seeing as Dembélé is beyond discussion, it needs to be a player who fits the role of sweeping behind MD. Personally I think Holtby is way too attacking and that Huddlestone does not like fit enough yet. That leaves Livermore and Carroll.

Carroll would be my choice as of right now, Huddlestone to come on midway 2nd half or as needed.
 

WookieD

wharrgarbl 💫
I may be unfairly biased from his long, long injury lay off, but with his frame and well documented fitness issues (as stamina over a game rather than injury problems) I'd much rather let him come on later.

Football only allows for 3 subs and it is always a tactical shackle to start players, whom you are almost certain will not last the course.

I much prefer Holtby and (a fit) Huddlestone to Livermore and (at this stage) Carroll. However seeing as Dembélé is beyond discussion, it needs to be a player who fits the role of sweeping behind MD. Personally I think Holtby is way too attacking and that Huddlestone does not like fit enough yet. That leaves Livermore and Carroll.

Carroll would be my choice as of right now, Huddlestone to come on midway 2nd half or as needed.
I hate to put a player down but I don't want Livermore anywhere near this final push as he breaks play worse than Parker and the entire point is that we need a passer of the ball. The only options in my mind are really Huddlestone and Carroll and despite Hudds mobility, when he is at his game he makes a t'riffic number of interceptions... Take a look at some of his chalkboards and you'll be surprised.

As to whether he is fit enough to play a 90 (or at least a 70), I'd have faith in AVB to call that correctly. Like I said in my OP, I think that 4-3-3 potentially gives us the best of both worlds, Holtby and Dembele gliding around the pitch breaking up play and Hudd mopping up means that he doesn't need to be too mobile compared to just him and Dembele with a full AM.
 
We should have been playing 4-3-3 all season.

Then again, that would have demanded for us to actually have 2 wingers in the squad at all times :levyeyes:
 

pleb

Supporter
Enjoy the Moment
Regarding the subs, AVB makes the call and he done it very well yesterday, Hudd fits the role well as a super sub!!!
 
We should have been playing 4-3-3 all season.

Then again, that would have demanded for us to actually have 2 wingers in the squad at all times :levyeyes:

Or wide forwards able to operate the in the channels with overlapping fulbacks...

Ive long thought that our midfield pool virtually dictates 433. Very few of them seem genuine 2 man CM players, but combinations of them sound fantastic in a 3

From Demebele, Huddlestone, Sandro, Holtby, Sigurdsson I think you could get a fantastic CM3. Less so Parker, but if he were to play a pure holding role (as he did early last season) then he could work as well.

Ive also long thought a 3 man mifield could be the making of Huddlestone.
 

WookieD

wharrgarbl 💫
Right, so all of you calling for Hudd to stay as an impact sub, what do you do about the shocking distribution and lack of service to the striker in the opening 60/70 minutes? Or are you happy to try and win a game that way? Genuinely interested. Would you stick or change Parker with someone other than Hudd?
 
Right, so all of you calling for Hudd to stay as an impact sub, what do you do about the shocking distribution and lack of service to the striker in the opening 60/70 minutes? Or are you happy to try and win a game that way? Genuinely interested. Would you stick or change Parker with someone other than Hudd?

As I said - Id be tempted to stay as we are but have Holtby in for Parker.

We seem set on persisting with Bale down the middle, Dempsey/Sigurdsson/Lennon wide. Its not a bad set up if the midfield can get them the ball - and its how we have played all season (looking at record points haul...) so Im inclined to keep the set up as a basis of how we play for consistencies sake.

Holtby and Dembele in midfield would require discipline from Holtby to mind the defensive duties, but he has the heart of a lion and seems pretty decent in harassing and winning the ball - and is IMO a huge huge improvement on Parker with the ball. On balance I think that would see us improved in CM and so the team performance upped over all.

Im fast becoming a big fan of us switching to 433, and think Huddlestone could excel in such a set up - Im just reluctant to switch our style of play so much with a crucial 5 games left in the season.

Start as we have, switch to 433 with Hudd late on to exploit the situation, tee us up to adopt it full time next season if we want to...
 
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