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Management Johan Lange - Technical Director

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Too many 'fans' confusing our list of injured players - Guglielmo Vicario, Ben Davies, Cristian Romero, Destiny Udogie, Micky van de Ven, Richarlison and Wilson Odobert - with not buying more established players

All clubs go through issues with injuries - Pep was complaining his injured older squad plus Rodri being injured were the problem behind their run of 12 matches with no wins (Spurs of course the first to defeat them in that run)/

Sadly injuries are a fact of life in football.

All we can actually do is to hope our injured list reduces as quickly as possible, buy a couple of players this transfer window ....... and be delighted with the fit players of any age who are playing well for us.
 
Too many 'fans' confusing our list of injured players - Guglielmo Vicario, Ben Davies, Cristian Romero, Destiny Udogie, Micky van de Ven, Richarlison and Wilson Odobert - with not buying more established players

All clubs go through issues with injuries - Pep was complaining his injured older squad plus Rodri being injured were the problem behind their run of 12 matches with no wins (Spurs of course the first to defeat them in that run)/

Sadly injuries are a fact of life in football.

All we can actually do is to hope our injured list reduces as quickly as possible, buy a couple of players this transfer window ....... and be delighted with the fit players of any age who are playing well for us.
You are right, but there's definitely a correlation between form and injuries, particularly when it's injuries to key players.

You only really need to look at the teams at the top to see this. Liverpool haven't really suffered them this season so far. Yet go back to when the lost VVD and you'll see their form dropped off.
Woolwich when they lost Saliba, and now when they had Odegaard out, then Rice and now Saka.
City you've already mentioned.
Newcastle last season.
With us, losing VDV, Romero for long spells, along with Bentancur and Vicario, not to mention Richarlison who, pre injury, was on a Purple patch, it adds up.

Injuries to one or two key players can have a big impact, as the above examples show. Losing four or five will have a greater impact, as Newcastle clearly showed last season, and as we've shown both last season and this. You also need to factor in the knock on effect it has on the rest of the team. We've had multiple posters here going on about how our players look knackered, well when you are missing half of your squad, is it any wonder?
Let's also not forget that any long term injured player doesn't just magically return in top form. They're not match fit, they'll have lost that match sharpness. That takes time to get back, and it's exacerbated by them playing against others who are both fit and sharp.

I'm really not sure how this can be overlooked or cited as "just part of the game."
 
You are right, but there's definitely a correlation between form and injuries, particularly when it's injuries to key players.

You only really need to look at the teams at the top to see this. Liverpool haven't really suffered them this season so far. Yet go back to when the lost VVD and you'll see their form dropped off.
Woolwich when they lost Saliba, and now when they had Odegaard out, then Rice and now Saka.
City you've already mentioned.
Newcastle last season.
With us, losing VDV, Romero for long spells, along with Bentancur and Vicario, not to mention Richarlison who, pre injury, was on a Purple patch, it adds up.

Injuries to one or two key players can have a big impact, as the above examples show. Losing four or five will have a greater impact, as Newcastle clearly showed last season, and as we've shown both last season and this. You also need to factor in the knock on effect it has on the rest of the team. We've had multiple posters here going on about how our players look knackered, well when you are missing half of your squad, is it any wonder?
Let's also not forget that any long term injured player doesn't just magically return in top form. They're not match fit, they'll have lost that match sharpness. That takes time to get back, and it's exacerbated by them playing against others who are both fit and sharp.

I'm really not sure how this can be overlooked or cited as "just part of the game."

This.

And also bad performances happen in football for every team.

The Palace and Ipswich games had nothing to do with injuries but everything to do with a bad day at the office.... that doesn't mean that our innury crisis isn't having an effect on the games where they are having an effect.

The annoying thing is that posters who actually come across, at times, as smarter individuals seem to be parroting stuff that you hear on talk sport because they don't like ange and seem to have a blind spot in their football intelligence when it comes to seeing the difference.
 
This.

And also bad performances happen in football for every team.

The Palace and Ipswich games had nothing to do with injuries but everything to do with a bad day at the office.... that doesn't mean that our innury crisis isn't having an effect on the games where they are having an effect.

The annoying thing is that posters who actually come across, at times, as smarter individuals seem to be parroting stuff that you hear on talk sport because they don't like ange and seem to have a blind spot in their football intelligence when it comes to seeing the difference.
Not so much blind spot as blinkered, and they put them on themselves.

The same posters who label you an "Angeboi," or some other infantile remark, when you put up any reasonable argument in his favour.

The same posters who put these "excuses" up for the opposition, when we beat them, that they scoff at when they're used for our own club.

Makes you wonder who they really support.
 
How many "bad days at the office" do you get before it becomes clear that it's not the day, it's you?

:ange-hmm:
As he's only mentioned two...

In fairness to Dudu, he's been quite vocal, figuratively speaking, about how poor some of our performances have been.

Injuries aren't the sole factor here, but you'd have to be an imbecile to think they're not contributing to it quite significantly.
 
How many "bad days at the office" do you get before it becomes clear that it's not the day, it's you?

:ange-hmm:
And how many good days do you discount? One of the reasons I am still backing Ange is because of how we have performed against the bigger clubs who we usually lose to...

Man City 2-1 (home)
Man City 0-2 (home) - we may have lost but we sure gave them a massive scare as they won the title last season
Man City 4-0 (away)
Man City 3-3 (away)
Man U 3-0 (away)
Newcastle 4-1 (home)
Newcastle 1-2 (away) - we may have lost, but we totally outplayed them at what is a massive bogey ground
Villa 4-1 (away)
Villa 4-1 (home)
Woolwich 2-2 (away)
Liverpool 2-1 (home)
Liverpool 1-0 (home)

After the summer window I really think we will have an amazing squad suited to his style of football. It os worth being patient and sticking with him as good things are around the corner. How long did it take Klopp or Arteta to finish top 4? 3 years?
 
As he's only mentioned two...

In fairness to Dudu, he's been quite vocal, figuratively speaking, about how poor some of our performances have been.

Injuries aren't the sole factor here, but you'd have to be an imbecile to think they're not contributing to it quite significantly.
They're not the whole story though, that's my frustration.

People who have said results aren't good enough aren't stupid and think we ought to be able to cope with the injuries and be in better form currently.

But it's a fact of life in the PL when you're playing in Europe as well, as others pointed out - moneybags City deal with rashes of injuries.

Aside the saying goes - make hay while the sun shines. When we're healthy we can't draw Leicester at home, lose to Palace and Ipswich, get tonked away to Fulham and beaten at home by Wolves like last year. All matches where we were healthy (and just a handful of examples, there's many more). You can't lose those points when you're healthy because you're going to have matches where you're short handed or short of rest.

But we haven't made hay while the sun shone. Aside from the first 10 matches of his tenure, our "best" run has merely been baseline adequate for our aims as a club (and against a very easy stretch of fixtures). The rest has been underperforming to varying degrees, with the odd good result thrown in.

Edit: Anyway, that's Ange and not Lange. And I'm pleased Ange finally showed some cynicism with the Liverpool 1st leg and put getting a result ahead of style. There's no one on this forum who would be happier to be wrong than me.
 
They're not the whole story though, that's my frustration.
You're not alone, believe me, but you can't just discount mitigating factors.
People who have said results aren't good enough aren't stupid and think we ought to be able to cope with the injuries and be in better form currently.
I think I've covered this with the examples I gave. When you lose key players, then lose squad replacements to injury as well, you will struggle to cope. Add in the inexperience of those left and it goes quite a way to explaining our current form. In addition to that, you also have very young and inexperienced players filling in those key voids.
They aren't good enough I'll agree, but I'm not so blinkered that I'll ignore all the factors contributing to that, as I went through before.
But it's a fact of life in the PL when you're playing in Europe as well, as others pointed out - moneybags City deal with rashes of injuries.
Do they? That 12 game winless streak says otherwise, and they haven't anywhere near the amount of injuries to key players that we've had. Chuck in the fact that their replacements are virtually all full internationals, and it undoes your statement.
Aside the saying goes - make hay while the sun shines. When we're healthy we can't draw Leicester at home, lose to Palace and Ipswich, get tonked away to Fulham and beaten at home by Wolves like last year.
Like I said, the injuries aren't the whole picture. I rarely let a result make me angry, but that Ipswich game had me fuming. Leicester was down to utter profligacy in front of goal, whilst against Palace we were awful as well.
All matches where we were healthy (and just a handful of examples, there's many more). You can't lose those points when you're healthy because you're going to have matches where you're short handed or short of rest.
I can't disagree there. Although I do disagree that there are "many more."
I've touched on our inconsistency before, it's part and parcel of building a young squad. City were inconsistent when Pep arrived, Liverpool inconsistent when Klopp arrived, Woolwich when Captain Black arrived. It happens when a new manager is instilling his ethos into a team, we're not unique in that.
But we haven't made hay while the sun shone. Aside from the first 10 matches of his tenure, our "best" run has merely been baseline adequate for our aims as a club (and against a very easy stretch of fixtures). The rest has been underperforming to varying degrees, with the odd good result thrown in.
Agreed, but that doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bath water. The fact of the matter is that the inconsistency has been exacerbated exponentially by the injury issues.
Edit: Anyway, that's Ange and not Lange. And I'm pleased Ange finally showed some cynicism with the Liverpool 1st leg and put getting a result ahead of style. There's no one on this forum who would be happier to be wrong than me.
That's fair enough.

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand the frustrations, and even share many of them. However, as I've posted previously, I've followed AP's career since Brisbane, where I was one of the youth coaches at Queensland Lions. I have faith he'll turn it around. If you don't then no worries, you're fully entitled to feel that way.

My abiding belief though, is that we'll revisit this down the line, with you and others happy that the club kept faith with him as well.
 
But whilst I don't think Richarlison was ever going to be a good buy, he was bought for Conte (and his criteria for a player may not be mine) and is an established PL player and Brazil international but he has only performed well for about 3 months when he seemed to score every game, the other 2 years he's been poor. And his injury record has been a long way worse than at Everton. And his injuries have been a real issue for Spurs plus of course he has no interest in moving to Saudi where we might get back most of our money.

And Odobert on the back of 2 seasons in PL and French top league is not an untried youngster - and he had no injuries in last 2 seasons.

Bissouma's form has been inconsistent, Bentancur has been unlucky with injuries plus his 7 game sabatical

Nobody is to blame , but its the established players who have not been available.

That is why Spurs have played the youngsrters more than probably intended - and I'm delighted to say have looked good

But to those who say 'we must buy more established players ...... why, cos the current established players are not always available due to injury and form ? Thats not on Spurs nor on the players always either,

Its more about a small number of fans who seem to think they are entitled to instant success.

Talk to ManU fans for example - a much bigger wealthy, more famous club than Spurs, but they would be delighted with our squad ... warts and all ...... as its better than theirs !
Agree with a lot. One first teamer and 3 yoots was the wrong balance last summer tho
 
How many "bad days at the office" do you get before it becomes clear that it's not the day, it's you?

:ange-hmm:

Dunno, clearly depends on circumstances.

I know you don't think him and don't think he is a good manager. Completely fair and you're entitled to your opinion. I'm not 100% convinced myself but I ot doesn't mean that the injuries haven't played a big part in our most recent form. Even if we have gone from a bit shit to monumentally shit.
 
Our players, including those who are maligned are way better than what we have been dished-up.

Maybe they are not in the highest grade but look at other clubs.

This is coaching and other stuff, more than the players we have at our disposal.
 
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