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Manager Jose Mourinho

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Guido said:
I was at the ground, which when VAR is concerned counts for shit as we are the last to know anything. But following the game literally everyone was asking about it and all that was being discussed was there was no review.

I've always gone with this as had it had been reviewed then it wouldn't had been given, the reason being is that it's in the laws of the game that if the ball it's your body then goes onto your arm then it's not handball.

I've watched replays of that incident many times but nothing else of the game at all (not even the actual pen being taken).

If it was reviewed then fair enough, however, it will just make me seeth about it even more because the laws permit the ball hitting another legal part of your body first before it hits your arm. The other law that existed that was brought into the game was if it hits your arm whilst the player is attempting to make his body bigger while blocking a shot, well he 100% wasn't trying to block a shot, his arm was already outstretched and he's made no attempt to engage Mane. (Danny Rose against City was a handball in these circumstances because he was challenging to the ball, as was the PSG fella vs Man U, he jumped in an attempt to block the ball).
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I know this is as close as you will ever get to admitting you were wrong, but I'll take it.
:thumbup:
 
Juno said:
Explain it away whatever way you want. We had a crop of players and a team that should have won multiple trophies and won a fat 0. There’s always hundreds of theories to explain away the shortcomings of failure.
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The question asked was in response to this: "when we had to step up and get really nasty we failed".

I asked for specific examples of various teams, what they did when they won.

You're also not listing any. The other stuff you list doesn't fall into the point that's being made, the point that Jose was making about being cunts.
 
For those wondering what Jose was talking about - it’s about removing 5 years of this mindset being ingrained into the club.

Again we're going to have the debate whether a trophy will take the club to the next level. I don't agree with it. It only builds your ego. The most important thing for Tottenham right now is to always be in the top four."
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and this

But asked if he needed to win a trophy this season, Pochettino said: "No. I don't feel that. Of course, we want to win [trophies]. I won as a player and I know how you feel after winning. Of course, our intention and desire is to win."But I'm not obsessing: win, win, win, win!
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and this

The Europa League is not an easy competition, it’s a very tough competition because it affects your domestic league,” Pochettino said. “It was my opinion when I was at Southampton, when I was asked a lot about this and, having had a Europa League season, I can now confirm that it is very difficult to manage the Europa League with the Premier League and both cups.”
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And more

When you win a real tournament, when you need to play under pressure and perform at your best over 10 months – that is the moment when you start to learn about winning,” Pochettino said. “ Winning a cup is going to help but to create that winning culture you need to work a lot and take many steps. It is not: ‘Oh, I am going to create a winning culture in two months [at the business end of a cup run].’”
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And some are still wondering why we didn’t win anything under him.
 
Guido said:
The question asked was in response to this: "when we had to step up and get really nasty we failed".

I asked for specific examples of various teams, what they did when they won.

You're also not listing any. The other stuff you list doesn't fall into the point that's being made, the point that Jose was making about being cunts.
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The Juventus ‘Home’ leg at Wembley a game where deployment of some of the dark arts would probably have seen us over the line. Pissed all over them for 3 hours (bar first 10 minutes in Turin and 5 minutes half way through 2nd half at Wembley) and still contrived to get eliminated.
 
Kane, Dele and Danny Rose had horrible reputations amongst opposition fans.

we had All the ingredients in there, but we lacked pure quality and depth in crucial moments

:levywtf:

certainly teams could bring on Hazard, Fabregas and costa In semi finals, and we were stuck with GKN and Janssen.

QUALITY matters. This intangibles stuff is just fluff to me.
 
TeamSpirit™ said:
Kane, Dele and Danny Rose had horrible reputations amongst opposition fans.

we had All the ingredients in there, but we lacked pure quality and depth in crucial moments

:levywtf:

certainly teams could bring on Hazard, Fabregas and costa In semi finals, and we were stuck with GKN and Janssen.

QUALITY matters. This intangibles stuff is just fluff to me.
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Aren't you effectively resigning yourself to pecking order of wealth?
 
Guido said:
You see, there isn't anything.

The mentality is there also, how on earth do you think we beat City and Ajax to get into the final. I genuinely can't think of a better example of mentality than those games. Right up there with Liverpool's come back against Juve. Barca's against PSG, even though none of their goals should have stood. Liverpool fans will no doubt site their win over Barca but really that was more to do with Barca missing about 3 open goals.
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Getting to the final is not the same as winning it, winning the finals is the last step and it's the vital step that's missing. You can't say there isn't anything when we've lost every final we've played.
 
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Totti said:
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Airfixx said:
Aren't you effectively resigning yourself to pecking order of wealth?
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Yes because by and large in football history that’s how it works. Once in a while a special manager/team Can upset the apple cart for a short time, but it’s usually deepest pockets wins.
Herbert chapman’s Woolwich was called the Bank of England club, our 60s team coincided with being the first club to spend £100k on a player (Greaves), Nottingham Forest became the first to spend £1m at the height of their Clough dominance, Jack Walker/Blackburn, Abramovich/Chelsea, Abu Dhabi/City, Man United Being the first club in England to take advantage of global appeal etc.

My expectations are often Tempered by the fact that we just can’t compete until either Joe Lewis contributes personally or we get wealthier owners.
 
Guido said:
You see, there isn't anything.

The mentality is there also, how on earth do you think we beat City and Ajax to get into the final. I genuinely can't think of a better example of mentality than those games. Right up there with Liverpool's come back against Juve. Barca's against PSG, even though none of their goals should have stood. Liverpool fans will no doubt site their win over Barca but really that was more to do with Barca missing about 3 open goals.
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Winning mentality extends to actually winning the final though. There’s a thought.
Finishing 9th in the PL doesn’t amount to winning mentality because you win some games along the way.
 
MiddxSpur said:
Mane deliberately aimed for Sissoko’s outstretched arm in the Champs League Final and won a penalty. They benefited massively from dark arts. To a lesser extent the quick corner against Barca that led to a goal is another example. Makes me sick again thinking about it.
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Neither are dark arts though are they? Its playing smart and taking advantage of a) a player that is quite naiive to put it mildly to be stretching his arm out pointing when in his own penalty area and b) an intelligent play between two players that was drawn up in practice based on watching tape of Barca players turning their backs to the ball at corner kicks. I hate the dark arts of the game too by the way but in my opinion those aren't them......just taking advantage in both cases of the opprtunities the opponent gave them.
 
sammyspurs said:
Winning mentality extends to actually winning the final though. There’s a thought.
Finishing 9th in the PL doesn’t amount to winning mentality because you win some games along the way.
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I never mentioned the words "winning mentality" just "mentality". The reason for this is because you have just outlined in your post there isn't really such a thing as "winning mentality" because as you have just pointed out it only accounts for WINS. No team has 100% wins ergo there is no "winning mentality". LFC has failed to win 6 games in the PL this year, knocked out of FA Cup, League Cup & Cl. They won the CL beating us but didn't win PL, knocked out of FA Cup & League Cup.

Jose's a "winner" translates into knocked out of FA Cup vs relegated Norwich, knocked out of CL by rookie coach and team built on buttons and a win % at 45% (worst in over a decade).

All I've asked is for someone to specify what exactly did Liverpool do that was "cunty/mean" that we didn't in the CL final. What Real Madrid did in their CL wins, what Chelsea did when they beat us in League Cup Semi, Final and FA Cup Final. Not one specific answer yet but apparently they are a more "cunts" because they won/win.
 
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