Keep the Manager, Change the players ?

[TheSpurEst]

Agree. Should have let Poch do his “painful”rebuild. I didn’t welcome Mourinho and wanted to be wrong about him. Hard to keep backing him based on what his team delivers currently.

Under Poch rebuild we would have got relegated most likely, given his track record of signings post-Michell-era.
And paid like 300 mil for players while doing so.

But that being said, Jose is not the right man for the job either.
And there has to be massive revamp of the squad.

We brought in some players but failed to shift out some subpar players, so now we have bloated squad.

 

[Joe Clash]

Heres one reason (well - 25 reasons really)

EUROPEAN-TROPHIES
Manchester United:
Europa League Winners, (23/05/2017)
Real Madrid:
Copa del Rey Winners, (2011-04-20)
Internazionale FC:
UEFA Champions League Winners, (2010-05-22)
Coppa Italia Winners, (2010-05-05)
Italian Super Cup Winners, (2008-08-24)
FC Porto:
UEFA Champions League Winners, (2004-05-26)
SuperCup Cândido de Oliveira Champions, (2003-08-10)
Cup of Portugal Winners, (2003-08-01)
UEFA Cup Winners, (2003-05-21)
DOMESTIC-TROPHIES
Manchester United:
League Cup Winners, (25/03/2017)
Chelsea:
League Cup Winners, (2015-03-01)
FA Cup Winners, (2007-05-19)
League Cup Winners, (2007-02-25)
Community Shield Winners, (2005-08-07)
League Cup Winners, (2005-02-25)
LEAGUE-TITLES
Chelsea:
Barclays Premier League Champions, (2015-05-24)
Barclays Premiership Champions, (28/05/2006)
Barclays Premiership Champions, (2005-05-15)
Real Madrid:
La Liga, (2012-05-13)
Internazionale FC:
Italian Serie A Champions, (2010-05-16)
Italian Serie A Champions, (2009-05-31)
FC Porto:
Portuguese Liga Champions, (2004-05-09)
Portuguese Liga Champions, (2003-05-30)

Do you agree that however illustrious someone’s career has been, there comes a point when pointing backwards ceases to be relevant? Nobody could argue with Mourinho’s achievements, but that was then - we have to compete in the now.

 

[sammyspurs]

Do you agree that however illustrious someone’s career has been, there comes a point when pointing backwards ceases to be relevant? Nobody could argue with Mourinho’s achievements, but that was then - we have to compete in the now.

The funny thing is that “then” has been consistently between 2001 and 2017

Then he didn’t work for 18 months until 2019 when he joined this club.
He has reached a final in one full season.
Let’s wait and see if Jose winning stuff is in the past or not shall we?

Now remember John, if we lose, will you blame Levy and the shit squad, and 2018?
Or Jose?

Bit of a conundrum for you there due to your steadfast agendas over the years.
For me, I will wait and see how the final pans out. If we batter City, but Kane misses an open goal then Ndombele gives away a 94th minute penalty and they win, I’d blame the obvious.

Who would you blame?

 

[Skooch]

If Poch was having this season with these players, the excuses would be getting wheeled out about the squad etc.

Sacking him would be ridiculous especially during the COVID season of football we're having with no fans and a load of matches with fuck all atmosphere.

What have we invested into the side since he got here and on what players? Were these ENIC picks or Jose picks?

Now we're questioning who does the signings when we were all over Poch for poor signings??

Jose is a busted flush and a chequebook manager. He has no ability outside of a chequebook

 

[DR Spurs]

In an ideal world I’d swap out the entire squad (bar Hojberg and the kids) just not an option though

Yes there’s talent, but we have a team of no heart bottle jobs

Gotta say I agree 100%...except that I'd want to keep Son, Ndombele, GLC and Kane too! If we build a new team around those players, we'll be damn hard to beat and we'll bea threat going forward.

I'm not saying that the rest of the team is worthless, nor was it all down to the players...but the one thing that always bugged me under Poch was our ability to play fantastic football...and yet bottle it in the biggest of games (a trend we witnessed throughout his tenure, peaking with the CL final)! Don't get me wrong, I loved Poch but he had flaws. And the main thing I put at his feet is the coaching and not totally eradicating our soft underbelly.

Remember when we played Man U in the FA cup semi a couple of weeks after shafting them in the league (2016 I think it was)? Well I do...and I was fuming at the lack of fight in the team that day...and the way Jose (managing Man U at the time) just worked out a way to deal with us on the day...we were simply brushed aside by being outfought...I was gutted and my 11 year old son cried all the way home in the car! I think that was when I started to wonder about some of the player's mentality and whether they should even be at the club.

The problem is that we still have many of those players here at the club...with most of them being a few years older...and not getting any better with age! So yes, we need a major player overhaul, not just so that Jose gets to build his squad, but also to finally flush out the bottling mentality.

Our current situation isn't 100% on the players of course, Jose has to take some of the blame as he is the coach and he decides on tactics, shape and playing personnel...but take a look at what he has to work with people (especially at the back!)...has he ever had to work with that standard of player before? I very much doubt it.

We need better players...no matter who manages the team!

COYS

 

[Mick Cooper]

Do you agree that however illustrious someone’s career has been, there comes a point when pointing backwards ceases to be relevant? Nobody could argue with Mourinho’s achievements, but that was then - we have to compete in the now.

Oh god yes! The guys a chequebook manager, and he's at the wrong club for that.
We needed to upgrade the team not replace Poch. This has been shambolic upper level management.

 

[todd1882]

It started early 2019 when our league form became relegation levels, so I guess the management at the time.

Now it’s on Jose to drop the underperformers and start stamping an identity on this club with the players he signed.
He has allowed the regression to continue so that’s on him.

Then you have the players themselves who should be ashamed of themselves

No, it started in 2018 but you didn't notice it because we got points. but the play was bad, nothing like we were previous. And it went downhill after the Wolves game in December IIRC but that was only a points issue. the play was still the same shit. All after the Sammy summer.

 

[DR Spurs]

Exactly. Our CBs are absolute trash and have been for a while even before Jose got here. But then this guy goes on and give Dier and Toby new contracts before one speaks portuguese and likes to fight and the other hoofs long balls to Kane. Both are shite and Sanchez is worse. If Jose wants to stay here, its time to get Tanganga and Rodon going at CB.

Agree about our CBs not being anywhere near good enough...but I think that Dier and Toby were re-signed because;

A, He wanted to see if Dier could be one of our CBs going forward, the experiment has failed but I can see why he wanted to try it out.

B, Toby was a cheap option to retain at the time and it was thought he would be OK for certain games, despite his decline...I saw it as a good thing at the time, even now I think Toby would be a still good back up option at CB for a couple of seasons. He is not our main CB anymore though.

Regarding Sanchez...for 40 odd million, he has been disaster...he started well but his main flaw became clear pretty quickly...in almost any situation, he will mess up and act liked he hasn't played football before, because he has zero composure and even less common sense! (Aurier is the same)!

I think it's obvious that Jose knows all of the above, which is why he signed up Tanganga, who is not only a CB prospect, but also versatile anywhere at the back, still learning though. Rodon shows signs of being a typical Jose type of CB already, he just needs time to bed in.

Sign 2 more defenders and a midfield creator and we will be a totally different team....oh and get rid of the under par players, even at a loss if need be!

 

[sammyspurs]

No, it started in 2018 but you didn't notice it because we got points. but the play was bad, nothing like we were previous. And it went downhill after the Wolves game in December IIRC but that was only a points issue. the play was still the same shit. All after the Sammy summer.

So we regressed under Poch, that was the point.
I didn’t see the window effect us when we smashed Everton 6-2 and Bournemouth 5-0 in a week.....I did however see us then switch to a permanent diamond though

 

[Brian Fantana]

The players have repeatedly shown us they don’t have the mentality, heart and desire under both managers. They’re a massive part of the problem. 65% players 35% manager (both Poch and Mourinho). It’s not a manager specific problem.

 

[sammyspurs]

The players have repeatedly shown us they don’t have the mentality, heart and desire under both managers. They’re a massive part of the problem. 65% players 35% manager (both Poch and Mourinho). It’s not a manager specific problem.

No Winks could walk into City now

 

[Parklane13]

Heres one reason (well - 25 reasons really)

EUROPEAN-TROPHIES
Manchester United:
Europa League Winners, (23/05/2017)
Real Madrid:
Copa del Rey Winners, (2011-04-20)
Internazionale FC:
UEFA Champions League Winners, (2010-05-22)
Coppa Italia Winners, (2010-05-05)
Italian Super Cup Winners, (2008-08-24)
FC Porto:
UEFA Champions League Winners, (2004-05-26)
SuperCup Cândido de Oliveira Champions, (2003-08-10)
Cup of Portugal Winners, (2003-08-01)
UEFA Cup Winners, (2003-05-21)
DOMESTIC-TROPHIES
Manchester United:
League Cup Winners, (25/03/2017)
Chelsea:
League Cup Winners, (2015-03-01)
FA Cup Winners, (2007-05-19)
League Cup Winners, (2007-02-25)
Community Shield Winners, (2005-08-07)
League Cup Winners, (2005-02-25)
LEAGUE-TITLES
Chelsea:
Barclays Premier League Champions, (2015-05-24)
Barclays Premiership Champions, (28/05/2006)
Barclays Premiership Champions, (2005-05-15)
Real Madrid:
La Liga, (2012-05-13)
Internazionale FC:
Italian Serie A Champions, (2010-05-16)
Italian Serie A Champions, (2009-05-31)
FC Porto:
Portuguese Liga Champions, (2004-05-09)
Portuguese Liga Champions, (2003-05-30)

Not sure of the relevance that a long list of trophies purchased by billionaire owners of various clubs has to Tottenham...#chequebookmanager...

 

[The Mercurial No.10]

Now we're questioning who does the signings when we were all over Poch for poor signings??

Jose is a busted flush and a chequebook manager. He has no ability outside of a chequebook

Bullshit, lol@no ability.

Also, lots of people have been questioning the transfer set up at Tottenham since well before even Poch came in.

 

[MouraThat]

Not sure of the relevance that a long list of trophies purchased by billionaire owners of various clubs has to Tottenham...#chequebookmanager...

Jose definitely is a chequebookmanager

Although I believe his methods he used right now worked 15 years ago. 15 years ago Spurs would be doing much better but his jurassic park football isn't good now. All the other teams around us play much better football and Jurassic park football cannot counter-act it.

 

[OffTheBench]

Under Poch rebuild we would have got relegated most likely, given his track record of signings post-Michell-era.
And paid like 300 mil for players while doing so.

That's just silly

 

[Skooch]

Bullshit, lol@no ability.

Also, lots of people have been questioning the transfer set up at Tottenham since well before even Poch came in.

So what's he done with a average team that doesn't throw money at him? Ever since Porto he's been successful only if he has the best players and the biggest budget.

 

[Sam161993]

I think the answer is somewhere in the middle. The last 10 games really has shown how shit our CBs/GK are, they make a mistake each every game which leads to goals and thats unacceptable at this level.

However, Jose does play shit football. Agree with other posters, our squad up top is more than good enough to dominate teams and Jose isn't getting the best out of them. We may fluke a win in that League cup final and that will be nice for a time, but we aren't going to win the Europa the way we are playing and we are miles off in the league.

ENIC have to pull there finger out this window. I don't understand the logic of employing a £15m a year Manager and giving him a mid table defence?

 

[Skooch]

I think the answer is somewhere in the middle. The last 10 games really has shown how shit our CBs/GK are, they make a mistake each every game which leads to goals and thats unacceptable at this level.

However, Jose does play shit football. Agree with other posters, our squad up top is more than good enough to dominate teams and Jose isn't getting the best out of them. We may fluke a win in that League cup final and that will be nice for a time, but we aren't going to win the Europa the way we are playing and we are miles off in the league.

ENIC have to pull there finger out this window. I don't understand the logic of employing a £15m a year Manager and giving him a mid table defence?

Lets have a look at Sunday.

The team sat back for an hour and gave up a 2-0 lead. They then pushed forward and looked a totally different team altogether.

So why did we sit back so long, as we did so many times this season?? If it's not the manager's tactics, why is he unable to change them? If it is his tactics, why can't he change them?

If Mourinho is still this great tactical genius, and nothing he has done with us proves this, why are we being outplayed so easily? Why did we start off so well, then change to a team which starts fast then gives the opposition the chance to get back into the game? Now we've changed to a team which starts slow and sometimes fights back.

What's wrong with playing for 90 minutes as an attacking force since that plays to our strengths?

 

[TheSpurEst]

That's just silly

Is it?

For that we could have got 7 Sanchez'es.
If we would have 8 players of that quality on field, I am not sure we would survive in EPL...

 

[todd1882]

So we regressed under Poch, that was the point.
I didn’t see the window effect us when we smashed Everton 6-2 and Bournemouth 5-0 in a week.....I did however see us then switch to a permanent diamond though

2 Things dear Sammy: 1) IIRC those occured before the wolves game and 2) the play in the first have was still shit but we got points. the writing was on the wall but it was no surprise you didn't see it as you were probably railing against something going the opposite way of the thing you were railing against the week before...and a bonus 3rd one for you, go back and re-watch those games and you will see that we were very fortunate vs Everton and Bournemouth. THEN you will see it was the players back then too. but glad you finally came along and realized it seeing as you thought Mou could fix it. Perhaps now you might actually gain better perspective into Poch's dilemma. Doubt it though seeing as your desire is not understanding in all of this.

We were shit that year and you don't want to see it because it would put paid to your claims about the Sammy summer even though you've already done that a million times by saying we needed player the next January. See?