Let's Be Brutally Honest - Our Matchday Squad is No Longer Top 6 Quality

Are We Still Top 6 Quality?


  • Total voters
    84

CSWY

Supporter
Sadly the OP is all true. We’re knackered. Spent. But hey, still selling all STs and record catering and hospitality for any club. We’re an entertainment complex now waiting for a new buyer to line Lewis and Levy’s pockets even more.

Take me back to 2016/17 at WHL. The last season that we were a proper club.
 
we are nowhere near man utd and Chelsea. except for son and kane they are better man for man

Chelsea's lineup in their most recent 3-0 win against Watford, compared to our last lineup:
Kepa vs Lloris
James vs Aurier
Zouma vs Sanchez
Christensen vs Dier
Azpilicueta vs Davies
Barkley vs Lo Celso
Kanté vs Sissoko
Mount vs Bergwijn
Willian vs Moura
Giroud vs Kane
Pulisic vs Son

Player by player they are certainly not better. But their team is MUCH better balanced than the team Mourinho fielded.

Man Utd might be slightly better player by player now with Fernandes (which we shouldve fucking got), if Pogba and de Gea are actually trying again. But mainly, they've got confidence, offensive attitude and a lineup that is better balanced than ours at the moment.
 

Igula

Suspended
Chelsea's lineup in their most recent 3-0 win against Watford, compared to our last lineup:
Kepa vs Lloris
James vs Aurier
Zouma vs Sanchez
Christensen vs Dier
Azpilicueta vs Davies
Barkley vs Lo Celso
Kanté vs Sissoko
Mount vs Bergwijn
Willian vs Moura
Giroud vs Kane
Pulisic vs Son

Player by player they are certainly not better. But their team is MUCH better balanced than the team Mourinho fielded.

Man Utd might be slightly better player by player now with Fernandes (which we shouldve fucking got), if Pogba and de Gea are actually trying again. But mainly, they've got confidence, offensive attitude and a lineup that is better balanced than ours at the moment.

If you compare benches they blow us out of the water with the likes of Abraham, CHO, Loftus Cheek, Jorginho, Kovacic even a guy like Pedro.

Plus they have Ziyech and Werner already coming in for next plus credible rumours that they could add Havertz plus. So even if you take the generous (to us ) stance the the starting 11's are equal the bench and additions are clearly in Chelsea's favor. I would also guess that they have a lot more youth in key roles versus us so they also are likely to see a lot more improvement in their squad just through development than we are.
 
If you compare benches they blow us out of the water with the likes of Abraham, CHO, Loftus Cheek, Jorginho, Kovacic even a guy like Pedro.

Plus they have Ziyech and Werner already coming in for next plus credible rumours that they could add Havertz plus. So even if you take the generous (to us ) stance the the starting 11's are equal the bench and additions are clearly in Chelsea's favor. I would also guess that they have a lot more youth in key roles versus us so they also are likely to see a lot more improvement in their squad just through development than we are.

I'd say that Alderweireld, Vertonghen, N'Dombele, Lamela, Alli, Skipp and Winks is at least as good as their backup players.


Yes, they might become better next season, but now they are not - player for player.
 

Igula

Suspended
I'd say that Alderweireld, Vertonghen, N'Dombele, Lamela, Alli, Skipp and Winks is at least as good as their backup players.


Yes, they might become better next season, but now they are not - player for player.

I do not think they are close to as good as the Chelsea bench. Nobody nearly as dynamic as Abraham, CHO, Pedro. Toby and Jan too old at this point.

Right now, player for player they are clearly better on paper and certainly on the pitch as you can see in the difference in the standings. I don't even think it is debatable or that close.
 
I do not think they are close to as good as the Chelsea bench. Nobody nearly as dynamic as Abraham, CHO, Pedro. Toby and Jan too old at this point.

Right now, player for player they are clearly better on paper and certainly on the pitch as you can see in the difference in the standings. I don't even think it is debatable or that close.

You are suffering from the they-are-all-better delusion.

Abraham is backup for Giroud, they guy who was not good enough for Woolwich when they were shit and lacked a proper striker. CHO is behind Willian in the pecking order, with a manager that prefers young englishmen, a Willian that has mostly had a Mouraish role in Chelsea, a Chelsea that has struggled greatly offensively when Hazard has been out of action in previous years. Pedro has also been a fringe player, even mostly behind Willian. Our bench players might not be as "dynamic" as Pedro, Abraham and CHO, but that is because Mourinho foolishly started all of Bergwijn, Son and Moura in that particular game.
 

Igula

Suspended
You are suffering from the they-are-all-better delusion.

Abraham is backup for Giroud, they guy who was not good enough for Woolwich when they were shit and lacked a proper striker. CHO is behind Willian in the pecking order, with a manager that prefers young englishmen, a Willian that has mostly had a Mouraish role in Chelsea, a Chelsea that has struggled greatly offensively when Hazard has been out of action in previous years. Pedro has also been a fringe player, even mostly behind Willian. Our bench players might not be as "dynamic" as Pedro, Abraham and CHO, but that is because Mourinho foolishly started all of Bergwijn, Son and Moura in that particular game.

No delusion I just see the much better quality they have. Willian being compared to Moura is ridiculous. Willian is much better and much more valuable.
 

Igula

Suspended
That's why they are letting him go on a free transfer, sure.

They are letting him go on a free transfer because of his age and the fact that they are upgrading the spot. I know that is likely hard to understand for us Spurs fans but it certainly doesn't mean he is shit.

If they (or anyone else) had to choose between Willian and Moura it is Willian 100 times out of 100.

They are 12 points ahead of us in the table because of how much better their squad is not because of a masterclass of tactics from Fat Frank.
 
They are letting him go on a free transfer because of his age and the fact that they are upgrading the spot. I know that is likely hard to understand for us Spurs fans but it certainly doesn't mean he is shit.

If they (or anyone else) had to choose between Willian and Moura it is Willian 100 times out of 100.

They are 12 points ahead of us in the table because of how much better their squad is not because of a masterclass of tactics from Fat Frank.

Last season we finished one point behind them in the league, we reached the CL final. Since then we lost Eriksen who was shit that season, they lost Hazard, their by far best player. We spent cash strengthening, they haven't been able to spend shit. The season before that, we finished 7 points ahead of them in the league. When did their squad suddenly turn so much better than ours?

They are performing better than us at the moment, but not because their squad is a lot better than ours.
 
he's older that's why. Moura is in his prime supposedly but I don't even know what his prime is. he's not Sao Paulo lucas that's for sure

He is older, yes, but not old. Clubs do not scrap players if they are great. He hasn't started 25 games and came on as a sub in 7 games in the league (and 6+1 in CL) this season because he is great (more game time than in any season since 2015/16), but because they lack better options. So, Willian is not great, and he is still preferred over CHO and Pedro.
 
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Igula

Suspended
Last season we finished one point behind them in the league, we reached the CL final. Since then we lost Eriksen who was shit that season, they lost Hazard, their by far best player. We spent cash strengthening, they haven't been able to spend shit. The season before that, we finished 7 points ahead of them in the league. When did their squad suddenly turn so much better than ours?

They are performing better than us at the moment, but not because their squad is a lot better than ours.

They added Abraham. Pulisic, Tomori and Mount. That is not insignificant. They also had those guys improve a ton where a lot of our team (Jan, Toby, Lloris) saw a lot of regression and stagnation. I can't think of a single player that improved since last season. So while Chelsea is having a lot of their guys improving we are regressing and it is easy to see where the gap begins to form.

Your attempt to shit on them with Willian shows the difference in our club. They are so strong and bringing in quality that they can let a player like Willian and still have a strong side. We have a much weaker player in Moura and not only does he not get replaced he is starting for us.
 
They added Abraham. Pulisic, Tomori and Mount. That is not insignificant. They also had those guys improve a ton where a lot of our team (Jan, Toby, Lloris) saw a lot of regression and stagnation. I can't think of a single player that improved since last season. So while Chelsea is having a lot of their guys improving we are regressing and it is easy to see where the gap begins to form.

Your attempt to shit on them with Willian shows the difference in our club. They are so strong and bringing in quality that they can let a player like Willian and still have a strong side. We have a much weaker player in Moura and not only does he not get replaced he is starting for us.

Abraham, Pulisic, Tomori and Mount are all decent players at this level, but nothing special. Abraham is behind Giroud (!) in the pecking order, Pulisic has been great the last couple of games but was not doing well vefore the corona break, Tomori is behind Zouma and Christensen and has not been better than e.g. Tanganga, Mount has been doing fairly well, but is doing worse than e.g. our sub Alli.

Please check out Willian on whoscored.com. Check his goals and assist since his arrival at Chelsea. Keep in mind that he has played mostly as an AMR in one of the top teams in the league, and as their goto set pieces guy. Then compare his goals and assists to our AMs in the same period. Had he been ours you'd say he was not good enough.

He is having his best season by far this season.
 
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