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Management Levy / ENIC

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Levy In or Levy Out


  • Total voters
    347
Yeah , it was dark purple writing on a black background

It’s pretty impressive really , he manages to make what are dead cert business opportunities & somehow turns them to shit. I think come 2029 , the NFL will be a huge white elephant , no idea what the F1 go karts are doing , the hotel may do well for the Euros 2028 but with Sonny gone & us floating around mid table , we won’t be the pull he seems to think we will be. He’s got all these irons in the fire but he’s neglecting the fucking Fire .

He’s a puzzling little man

Those irons in the fire are actually very smart. They add to our (Spurs) income.

As I said, the biggest problem has been the recruitment/football model. We were once quite innovative (first with a DOF, had analysts like Michael Edwards etc) and had one of the best bang for buck recruitment (up to about 2016/17) but have turned into one of the worst. We rarely turn a profit on any player the last few years, and they certainly aren’t giving us much on pitch value. We have spent huge in transfer fees but low on wages - gathering a bloated squad (a bit less bloated now than it was) of very ordinary footballers.

It’s not about “tightness”, we spent a lot of money the last 5 years, it’s about incompetence and poor strategy from Levy,

It started with dropping the DOF and recruitment strategy for Pochettino around 16/17, and then a whole raft of poor strategic footballing decisions regarding personnel, structure, strategy.

Levy maybe also partly distracted by the stadium build during that time, but that in itself was a huge failure to realise this and set up a structure and oversight on the football side of the business so that he could concentrate on the stadium.

Whilst we have gone backwards, many clubs have gone forwards, adopted smarter strategies and structures. Recruited progressive coaches and better value players. It’s a double whammy.

It’s ironic that just as we become a club that can generate very large sums of money in revenue we also become one of the worst run clubs, whereas up until about 2016 we generated a pittance compared to our arrivals but got more things right than wrong and managed to compete with them.

We seem leaner and slightly meaner and slightly smarter under Lange, more how we used to be, but it looks too little too late, certainly for now.
 
Those irons in the fire are actually very smart. They add to our (Spurs) income.

As I said, the biggest problem has been the recruitment/football model. We were once quite innovative (first with a DOF, had analysts like Michael Edwards etc) and had one of the best bang for buck recruitment (up to about 2016/17) but have turned into one of the worst. We rarely turn a profit on any player the last few years, and they certainly aren’t giving us much on pitch value. We have spent huge in transfer fees but low on wages - gathering a bloated squad (a bit less bloated now than it was) of very ordinary footballers.

It’s not about “tightness”, we spent a lot of money the last 5 years, it’s about incompetence and poor strategy from Levy,

It started with dropping the DOF and recruitment strategy for Pochettino around 16/17, and then a whole raft of poor strategic footballing decisions regarding personnel, structure, strategy.

Levy maybe also partly distracted by the stadium build during that time, but that in itself was a huge failure to realise this and set up a structure and oversight on the football side of the business so that he could concentrate on the stadium.

Whilst we have gone backwards, many clubs have gone forwards, adopted smarter strategies and structures. Recruited progressive coaches and better value players. It’s a double whammy.

It’s ironic that just as we become a club that can generate very large sums of money in revenue we also become one of the worst run clubs, whereas up until about 2016 we generated a pittance compared to our arrivals but got more things right than wrong and managed to compete with them.

We seem leaner and slightly meaner and slightly smarter under Lange, more how we used to be, but it looks too little too late, certainly for now.

Yeh I think Lange has got caught up in the shitshow that is Levy/Ange/Munn. Our signings under Lange relative to the low wages we allow him to use are quite good, Odobert, Bergvall, Gray are decent and will be very good long term players for us. He has the charisma of a cabbage but the players coming in are ok, much better than Hitchens. His signings at Villa have also proven to be mostly a success.
 
Those irons in the fire are actually very smart. They add to our (Spurs) income.

As I said, the biggest problem has been the recruitment/football model. We were once quite innovative (first with a DOF, had analysts like Michael Edwards etc) and had one of the best bang for buck recruitment (up to about 2016/17) but have turned into one of the worst. We rarely turn a profit on any player the last few years, and they certainly aren’t giving us much on pitch value. We have spent huge in transfer fees but low on wages - gathering a bloated squad (a bit less bloated now than it was) of very ordinary footballers.

It’s not about “tightness”, we spent a lot of money the last 5 years, it’s about incompetence and poor strategy from Levy,

It started with dropping the DOF and recruitment strategy for Pochettino around 16/17, and then a whole raft of poor strategic footballing decisions regarding personnel, structure, strategy.

Levy maybe also partly distracted by the stadium build during that time, but that in itself was a huge failure to realise this and set up a structure and oversight on the football side of the business so that he could concentrate on the stadium.

Whilst we have gone backwards, many clubs have gone forwards, adopted smarter strategies and structures. Recruited progressive coaches and better value players. It’s a double whammy.

It’s ironic that just as we become a club that can generate very large sums of money in revenue we also become one of the worst run clubs, whereas up until about 2016 we generated a pittance compared to our arrivals but got more things right than wrong and managed to compete with them.

We seem leaner and slightly meaner and slightly smarter under Lange, more how we used to be, but it looks too little too late, certainly for now.
It is about tightness. Spending on transfer fees is on a par with the other big clubs but we a miles behind those rivals with wages and there is no excuse. It is tightness and nothing else.
 
For those of you still hung up about 'naming rights', how many times do you think 'Tottenham Hotspur' and 'Tottenham Hotspur Stadium' have been mentioned in the mainstream media and on social media in the last week or so, and especially tonight?

🥊🤔

Eg
12,000 views in 7 mins...


View: https://x.com/Turki_alalshikh/status/1916199593186070679?t=YOsSUYxmZOtUW9YNU9JvaA&s=19

And? Monetise that for me? I work in finance so struggle to see the ROI on branding etc. happy to be schooled and I’m sure there is an argument but do the mentions mean more people buy memberships? Or it creates a higher sale price for Levy when he finally sells
 
And? Monetise that for me? I work in finance so struggle to see the ROI on branding etc. happy to be schooled and I’m sure there is an argument but do the mentions mean more people buy memberships?
Putting aside the boring 'I work in....' shite we always hear on various platforms...

You ever heard of brand building?
Or it creates a higher sale price for Levy when he finally sells
Yes, pretty much.

Edit: A question for you. If mentioning the stadium and club isn't worth fuck all, then why do global companies pay millions for have their names on the sides of stadia and arenas around the world?
 
Of course - my company spend hundreds of millions on branding but I’m always arguing about the return

I just don’t see it with TH stadium.

We have a finite ‘customer’ base
Fair enough, you may have missed my edit...

Edit: A question for you. If mentioning the stadium and club isn't worth anything, then why do global companies pay millions to have their names on the sides of stadia and arenas around the world?
 
From a different forum, very interesting post...


Let me start with, do I believe Spurs should have won more under current ownership in last 20 years? yes. However what you painted above is too simplistic a view, lacks nuance and misses out stuff

- Clubs successful periods are cyclic in nature, years/decades of success, followed by years/decades of drought. Forest, Leeds, Everton are easy examples of previously successful teams struggling but still around, you don't need me to go through the Championship and League 1 to point out "big" clubs that are no longer relevant. You starting your trophy view in 1950 is a perfect example of that (in a 40 year period we won more trophies than in the other 100+ years)
- Your view/picture (and this is the extremely frustrating part) looking at that, is basically Spurs were a great club and ENIC fudged it up and it's downhill since purchase, and that is wrong on so many levels it comes across as disingenuous/dishonest

Let me paint a picture slightly different

Trophies
- 1882 - 1950 (2 Trophies in 68 years)
- 1950 - 1989 (12 Trophies in 39 years, ~70% of all Spurs silverware)
- Context - 1980 -82 (2 of the 3 decade trophies pre Scholar purchase)
- 1990 - 2024 (3 trophies in 34 years)

League Positions (Top division only)

  • 1900s: Positions 15th, 15th, 12th, 17th, 17th, 20th → Average: 16th
  • 1920s: Positions 6th, 2nd, 12th, 15th, 12th, 15th, 13th, 21st → Average: 12th
  • 1930s: Positions 3rd, 22nd → Average: 12.5th
  • 1950s: Positions 1st, 2nd, 10th, 16th, 16th, 18th, 2nd, 3rd, 18th, 3rd → Average: 9.9th
  • 1960s: Positions 1st, 3rd, 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, 3rd, 7th, 6th, 11th → Average: 5.1st
  • 1970s: Positions 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 19th, 9th, 22nd, 11th, 14th → Average: 11.4th
  • 1980s: Positions 10th, 4th, 4th, 8th, 3rd, 10th, 3rd, 13th, 6th, 3rd → Average: 6.4th
  • 1990s: Positions 10th, 15th, 8th, 15th, 7th, 8th, 10th, 14th, 11th, 10th → Average: 10.8th
  • 2000s: Positions 12th, 9th, 10th, 14th, 9th, 5th, 5th, 11th, 8th, 4th → Average: 9.1st
  • 2010s: Positions 5th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 5th, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th → Average: 4.8th
  • 2020s: Positions 7th, 4th, 8th, 5th → Average: 6th
Context, any of the average league position decades of Spurs under ENIC has only be matched/bettered twice, and the best league position decade ever was under ENIC

List of compelling events not listed above
1984 - Club purchased by Scholar
- Context - in 80's TV rights held by ITV, 5 teams including Spurs got 75% of TV revenue deal
1991 - Sold to Sugar on verge of bankruptcy
1992 - PL formed, CL formed
- Context, Sky takes over TV rights, now 50% of revenue is based on league finishes and number of times on tv
- Two decades follow where Spurs doesn't take advantage of new tv money
1994 - Spurs fined, points deduction imposed based on financial irregularities of the Scholar era
2001 - ENIC purchases Spurs
2003 - Chelsea purchased by RA and proceed to lose £1M/week for next 13 years
2008 - City purchased by Abu Dhabi and proceed to invest in a way that has them facing 115 charges of financial irregularities
- Context - 2008-24, Chelsea and City win 30 of the available trophies (basically they win close to 2 of the trophies available each year between them)
2009 - Spurs applies for approval to build new stadium, approved in 2010 but CPO for the needed properties don't get approved until 2014
2019 - Stadium gets opened
2020 -2021 - Stadium closed to fans due to Covid, matchday revenue dropped from £95M to basically nothing for 2 years.
2021 - Saudi Sportswashing Machine purchased by Saudi group with £320B fund
2022 -Matchday revenue returns, Spurs matchday revenue crosses £106M

All of the above is fact, just data points

Let me give you an interpretation (so yes, this is opinion)
- Spurs wasn't a particularly relevant club pre the 50's
- 60's - 70's are heyday, no co-incidence that skews a lot of older fans perspective of Spurs, even in 70's there are a bunch of bottom half league finishes and relegation
- From the 80's the club is on a downward trajectory (some of that doesn't highlight itself until the 90's)
- In the 90's there are series of unfortunate events, loss of fiscal advantage from ITV deal, the close to bankruptcy, the failure to capitalize on the increased revenue of the PL & CL (that allows United, Woolwich, Liverpool in particular to pull away) that basically puts the club in hole that ENIC will have to dig out of.
- In the 2000's you get the addition of the money doping clubs (Chelsea & City) that creates a pool of 5 clubs we have severe financial & structural disadvantages against. (vs. the 80's where we were part of the "advantaged 5")
- Against that backdrop, the club under ENIC puts in consistently the best league form across the history of the club, while building WC infrastructure that will allow the club to compete.

In summary, my perspective is this view of "well, if ENIC had spent $30M more here or whatever decision you disagree with" is the reason Spurs isn't raking in the trophies is nonsense

- They have probably saved the club from being an Everton or West Ham, and future proofed it.
- Could they have done more? absolutely but this "worse owners ever narrative" just doesn't fly
- Would it be great to have owners who splash cash? sure (with the moral hypocrisy that comes with it)

Too lazy, but I could probably do a cup run view, i.e. the QF/SF/Finals/runner ups in ENICs time (last time I checked in was more than 22 in 24 years IIRC), so we haven't been out of cup contention, we just haven't converted (and that itself is a whole other conversation).
 
Fair enough, you may have missed my edit...

Edit: A question for you. If mentioning the stadium and club isn't worth anything, then why do global companies pay millions to have their names on the sides of stadia and arenas around the world?
Because they are selling brand awareness and their products

I just don’t see a FC needs to do the same. We don’t sell consumer products, travel, subscriptions etc.
 
From a different forum, very interesting post...


Let me start with, do I believe Spurs should have won more under current ownership in last 20 years? yes. However what you painted above is too simplistic a view, lacks nuance and misses out stuff

- Clubs successful periods are cyclic in nature, years/decades of success, followed by years/decades of drought. Forest, Leeds, Everton are easy examples of previously successful teams struggling but still around, you don't need me to go through the Championship and League 1 to point out "big" clubs that are no longer relevant. You starting your trophy view in 1950 is a perfect example of that (in a 40 year period we won more trophies than in the other 100+ years)
- Your view/picture (and this is the extremely frustrating part) looking at that, is basically Spurs were a great club and ENIC fudged it up and it's downhill since purchase, and that is wrong on so many levels it comes across as disingenuous/dishonest

Let me paint a picture slightly different

Trophies
- 1882 - 1950 (2 Trophies in 68 years)
- 1950 - 1989 (12 Trophies in 39 years, ~70% of all Spurs silverware)
- Context - 1980 -82 (2 of the 3 decade trophies pre Scholar purchase)
- 1990 - 2024 (3 trophies in 34 years)

League Positions (Top division only)

  • 1900s: Positions 15th, 15th, 12th, 17th, 17th, 20th → Average: 16th
  • 1920s: Positions 6th, 2nd, 12th, 15th, 12th, 15th, 13th, 21st → Average: 12th
  • 1930s: Positions 3rd, 22nd → Average: 12.5th
  • 1950s: Positions 1st, 2nd, 10th, 16th, 16th, 18th, 2nd, 3rd, 18th, 3rd → Average: 9.9th
  • 1960s: Positions 1st, 3rd, 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, 3rd, 7th, 6th, 11th → Average: 5.1st
  • 1970s: Positions 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 19th, 9th, 22nd, 11th, 14th → Average: 11.4th
  • 1980s: Positions 10th, 4th, 4th, 8th, 3rd, 10th, 3rd, 13th, 6th, 3rd → Average: 6.4th
  • 1990s: Positions 10th, 15th, 8th, 15th, 7th, 8th, 10th, 14th, 11th, 10th → Average: 10.8th
  • 2000s: Positions 12th, 9th, 10th, 14th, 9th, 5th, 5th, 11th, 8th, 4th → Average: 9.1st
  • 2010s: Positions 5th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 5th, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th → Average: 4.8th
  • 2020s: Positions 7th, 4th, 8th, 5th → Average: 6th
Context, any of the average league position decades of Spurs under ENIC has only be matched/bettered twice, and the best league position decade ever was under ENIC

List of compelling events not listed above
1984 - Club purchased by Scholar
- Context - in 80's TV rights held by ITV, 5 teams including Spurs got 75% of TV revenue deal
1991 - Sold to Sugar on verge of bankruptcy
1992 - PL formed, CL formed
- Context, Sky takes over TV rights, now 50% of revenue is based on league finishes and number of times on tv
- Two decades follow where Spurs doesn't take advantage of new tv money
1994 - Spurs fined, points deduction imposed based on financial irregularities of the Scholar era
2001 - ENIC purchases Spurs
2003 - Chelsea purchased by RA and proceed to lose £1M/week for next 13 years
2008 - City purchased by Abu Dhabi and proceed to invest in a way that has them facing 115 charges of financial irregularities
- Context - 2008-24, Chelsea and City win 30 of the available trophies (basically they win close to 2 of the trophies available each year between them)
2009 - Spurs applies for approval to build new stadium, approved in 2010 but CPO for the needed properties don't get approved until 2014
2019 - Stadium gets opened
2020 -2021 - Stadium closed to fans due to Covid, matchday revenue dropped from £95M to basically nothing for 2 years.
2021 - Saudi Sportswashing Machine purchased by Saudi group with £320B fund
2022 -Matchday revenue returns, Spurs matchday revenue crosses £106M

All of the above is fact, just data points

Let me give you an interpretation (so yes, this is opinion)
- Spurs wasn't a particularly relevant club pre the 50's
- 60's - 70's are heyday, no co-incidence that skews a lot of older fans perspective of Spurs, even in 70's there are a bunch of bottom half league finishes and relegation
- From the 80's the club is on a downward trajectory (some of that doesn't highlight itself until the 90's)
- In the 90's there are series of unfortunate events, loss of fiscal advantage from ITV deal, the close to bankruptcy, the failure to capitalize on the increased revenue of the PL & CL (that allows United, Woolwich, Liverpool in particular to pull away) that basically puts the club in hole that ENIC will have to dig out of.
- In the 2000's you get the addition of the money doping clubs (Chelsea & City) that creates a pool of 5 clubs we have severe financial & structural disadvantages against. (vs. the 80's where we were part of the "advantaged 5")
- Against that backdrop, the club under ENIC puts in consistently the best league form across the history of the club, while building WC infrastructure that will allow the club to compete.

In summary, my perspective is this view of "well, if ENIC had spent $30M more here or whatever decision you disagree with" is the reason Spurs isn't raking in the trophies is nonsense

- They have probably saved the club from being an Everton or West Ham, and future proofed it.
- Could they have done more? absolutely but this "worse owners ever narrative" just doesn't fly
- Would it be great to have owners who splash cash? sure (with the moral hypocrisy that comes with it)

Too lazy, but I could probably do a cup run view, i.e. the QF/SF/Finals/runner ups in ENICs time (last time I checked in was more than 22 in 24 years IIRC), so we haven't been out of cup contention, we just haven't converted (and that itself is a whole other conversation).
Good post and a lot of facts but missing other facts look at attendances as a benchmark for the clubs size, and success not just trophies…. Also the glamour and prestige, the aura the world class players, the wealthy fanbase. Not all binary with trophies but needs to be considered
 
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