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Ex-Spurs Player Lucas Moura

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I didn't mean intolerant of intolerance. I meant manipulative, controlling and power hungry. And projecting that on 'the fash' as a cover story. You might relate.

What's that got to do with Lucas Moura potentially supporting Bolsonaro? Or the fact that it's perfectly fine to judge people on their political views if those political views harm other people? Some left wing people are also bad is not an argument.

Yes, I'm very manipulative, controlling and power hungry. Incredibly so.
 
Yeah but, the christian right is mainstream! So it's okay to be a piece of shit who thinks the rights of LGBT citizens should be questioned!

Seriously, with this situation I give Lucas the benefit of the doubt because its twitter, and clicking the odd tweet shouldn't defines ones political beliefs. But if he genuinely supports Bolsonaro and believes even half the shit he spouts, that makes him a shitty person. And that's a shame.

But at the end of the day, the Greenwood situation demonstrated why footballers should never be idolised or put on a pedestal anyway. They're just athletes.
Lucas supporting Bolsanaro because of his relationship with his own son? Or does he supports Bolsanaro because he thinks Lula's party is destructive? There could be many different reasons.

You must know Lucas very well to know he supports Bolsanaro because of his views on homosexuals. Of course there could be no other reason!

Usually you only need to think that one candidate is better than the other, despite their flaws, to support them. It doesn't mean you need to agree with the 100% or even 50%. "Moura must hate homosexuals because he supports Bolsanaro" shows a very simplistic way of thinking.
 
Iggy... I avoid Twatter what's he actually said? I know he backed Bolsanaro but I just assumed like most people he was sick of the lawlessness in Brazil. But is it broader that the silly Brazilian Trump.
There has been no evidence presented at all about Lucas in this thread. People merely like to attach all kind of views to him because he has expressed support of Bolsanaro. Why he supports Bolsanaro doesn't seem to be relevant to them but they think it gives them the right to accuse him of nearly anything no matter how unlikely it is to be true.
 
Lucas supporting Bolsanaro because of his relationship with his own son? Or does he supports Bolsanaro because he thinks Lula's party is destructive? There could be many different reasons.

You must know Lucas very well to know he supports Bolsanaro because of his views on homosexuals. Of course there could be no other reason!

Usually you only need to think that one candidate is better than the other, despite their flaws, to support them. It doesn't mean you need to agree with the 100% or even 50%. "Moura must hate homosexuals because he supports Bolsanaro" shows a very simplistic way of thinking.

It's also not something I've typed out.

Lucas may well not support Bolsonaro for those reasons, but it shows me he's willing to compromise on the rights of other Brazilian citizens because he thinks Bolsonaro is beneficial in other ways. It shows me he's willing to vocally back somebody who represents those views.

Someone might not have voted for Hitler because he vowed to fix the German economy, but they were still compromising on the rights of other people and viewing that as less important because it doesn't directly impact them.
 
There has been no evidence presented at all about Lucas in this thread. People merely like to attach all kind of views to him because he has expressed support of Bolsanaro. Why he supports Bolsanaro doesn't seem to be relevant to them but they think it gives them the right to accuse him of nearly anything no matter how unlikely it is to be true.

Who is accusing Lucas of anything? From what I can see most people (including myself) have just questioned the idea that there's a disconnect between morality and politics. I don't personally judge Lucas much because it's twitter, and ideas can be misconstrued. Clicking a like button isn't enough to condemn him at all.

But if he's a vocal Bolsonaro supporter, then yes I think less of him as a person. It's perfectly fine to judge people for the leaders they elect, to think anything else is a very privileged position. You don't get to say 'I voted in a homophobe, but not because he's homophobic!' and expect the people actually hurt by that choice not to be angry.
 
It's also not something I've typed out.

Lucas may well not support Bolsonaro for those reasons, but it shows me he's willing to compromise on the rights of other Brazilian citizens because he thinks Bolsonaro is beneficial in other ways. It shows me he's willing to vocally back somebody who represents those views.

Someone might not have voted for Hitler because he vowed to fix the German economy, but they were still compromising on the rights of other people and viewing that as less important because it doesn't directly impact them.
So what has happened to homosexuals since Bolsanaro won? Homophobia was already extremely widespread and violence commong even under Lula and Dilma so the situation is not new. If you want to use that comparison at least you can provide some evidence.
 
So what has happened to homosexuals since Bolsanaro won? Homophobia was already extremely widespread and violence commong even under Lula and Dilma so the situation is not new. If you want to use that comparison at least you can provide some evidence.

So because homophobic violence was already widespread and common, voting someone in who directly endorses homophobia isn't bad? I'm sure that won't compound the problem, or cause certain people's views to be entrenched.

Great argument. Absolutely compelling. What comparison do you think I'm using? The point is very clear: if you vote in people with terrible views, expect to be judged for doing so. It's not hard to understand this point.
 
The discussion started with Moura apparently liking posts condoning violence against a brazilian feminist as far as I understood. Using an example of male violence to defend him is quite fascinating.

PS: I (as a leftist as you may assume) cannot stand this wokeness and PC for the sake of it functioning as a masquerading from both individuals and companies and surely also just used for ones own progress while some genuinly believe it is the way to a fairer world. Would disagree with this notion. For context.
Where is that tweet you are talking about? Does it even exist or is it made up stuff?

I posted it a page or 2 back.... The interpretation of such doesn't seems as black and white as one wants us to believe.

Is anyone able to translate the tweet from portuguese without putting their own political filter on it?

Perhaps not.
 
I'm a Liberal so I'm no fan of Bolsonaro but being a supporter of the democratically elected president of your country isn't the worst thing a person can be. And as far as I can tell from Bosonaro's movement - their main platforms are a return to christian family values and a law and order crackdown. I don't have a problem with people voting for that even if I probably wouldn't
 
So because homophobic violence was already widespread and common, voting someone in who directly endorses homophobia isn't bad? I'm sure that won't compound the problem, or cause certain people's views to be entrenched.

Great argument. Absolutely compelling. What comparison do you think I'm using? The point is very clear: if you vote in people with terrible views, expect to be judged for doing so. It's not hard to understand this point.
You implied that it is getting worse, didn't you? You drew a parallel with how it got worse in Nazi Germany because of his voters?

For most people, homo rights is not their number one concern. Next time you vote I assume you will vote for the party offering the best conditions for LGBT people. Fair enough, it's your right if you chose to do so but most people have other concerns whether you like it or not. It doesn't make them worse. To seriously think that anyone who supports Bolsanaro is a bad person just because B happens to dislike homosexuals is being seriously limited.

Perhaps you can start by displaying some of that tolerance that you argue B's supporters are lacking.
 
You implied that it is getting worse, didn't you or why would you throw in Hitler when you argue Lucas Moura? It's almost as if he has expressed support for Hitler lol.

For most people, homo rights is not their number one concern. Next time you vote I assume you will vote for the party offering the best conditions for LGBT people. Fair enough, it's your right if you chose to do so but most people have other concerns whether you like it or not. It doesn't make them worse. To seriously think that anyone who supports Bolsanaro is a bad person just because B happens to dislike homosexuals is being seriously limited.

Perhaps you can start by displaying some of that tolerance that you argue B's supporters are lacking.

No I didn't, it was an analogy. You implied that as long as he didn't vote for Bolsonaro because he's a homophobe, that makes it okay. The point is you don't have to share the horrible views of another person to endorse them.

'Homo rights' .. are you fucking okay? Disgusting. Foul voted.

And for the millionth time, I don't need to be tolerant of homophobes, or people who endorse homophobes. Tolerance isn't about being nice or accepting to people who want to strip others of their rights and dignity. Imagine growing up as someone who is LGBT in Brazil now and the leader of your country is a proud homophobe. Imagine how that makes you feel about your own identity and right to exist as a person.


Then imagine having to hear this shit from said leader. Fuck right off trying to disconnect this from morality. This really isn't the place for all this discussion (regardless of what lucas did/didn't endorse) so I'll leave it there, but some of you need to evaluate how much you value the basic rights of other human beings to exist freely.
 
No I didn't, it was an analogy. You implied that as long as he didn't vote for Bolsonaro because he's a homophobe, that makes it okay. The point is you don't have to share the horrible views of another person to endorse them.

'Homo rights' .. are you fucking okay? Disgusting. Foul voted.

And for the millionth time, I don't need to be tolerant of homophobes, or people who endorse homophobes. Tolerance isn't about being nice or accepting to people who want to strip others of their rights and dignity. Imagine growing up as someone who is LGBT in Brazil now and the leader of your country is a proud homophobe. Imagine how that makes you feel about your own identity and right to exist as a person.


Then imagine having to hear this shit from said leader. Fuck right off trying to disconnect this from morality. This really isn't the place for all this discussion (regardless of what lucas did/didn't endorse) so I'll leave it there, but some of you need to evaluate how much you value the basic rights of other human beings to exist freely.
I guess if you don't vote for the communist party you are a vile human being. Good to know!

Foul voted for what? Isn't that what this is all about?
 
I posted it a page or 2 back.... The interpretation of such doesn't seems as black and white as one wants us to believe.

Is anyone able to translate the tweet from portuguese without putting their own political filter on it?

Perhaps not.
Ok thanks, I speak some basic portuguese and will give it a go.

If Olavo de Carvalho was pro-abortion, defended the bandits, in favour of legalizing drugs, for gender studies, (torcida pela, not sure how to translate that). Then he would be known as Marielle.

That's it. I don't know the story behind or who Marielle is/was but certainly there is a lot more to the story.
(guess it's her Marielle Franco - Wikipedia)
 
Ok thanks, I speak some basic portuguese and will give it a go.

If Olavo de Carvalho was pro-abortion, defended the bandits, in favour of legalizing drugs, for gender studies, (torcida pela, not sure how to translate that). Then he would be known as Marielle.

That's it. I don't know the story behind or who Marielle is/was but certainly there is a lot more to the story.

Pretty much backs up what the bloke in the reply I included said then...... That the tweet it pointing out a perceived hypocrisy of equivalence.

Is it an a accurate portrayal of the respective scenarios? ......I suspect many won't know.
 
Pretty much backs up what the bloke in the reply I included said then...... That the tweet it pointing out a perceived hypocrisy of equivalence.

Is it an a accurate portrayal of the respective scenarios? ......I suspect many won't know.
Yea, and something I think most people can relate to. This is really no big deal but of course a few extremists will be left butt hurt when their hypocrisy is pointed out.
 
Ok thanks, I speak some basic portuguese and will give it a go.

If Olavo de Carvalho was pro-abortion, defended the bandits, in favour of legalizing drugs, for gender studies, (torcida pela, not sure how to translate that). Then he would be known as Marielle.

That's it. I don't know the story behind or who Marielle is/was but certainly there is a lot more to the story.
(guess it's her Marielle Franco - Wikipedia)

This is what what you can find on Wiki about his death:

"Olavo's family announced his death on social media, on January 24, 2022, eight days after he tested positive for COVID-19.[4] His family's statement did not specify his cause of death, but his daughter Heloísa said that it was from coronavirus.[2][3] His personal doctor denied it was COVID and stated officially that his death was caused by respiratory stress associated with emphysema, heart failure, bacterial pneumonia, and a generalised infection.[59] Olavo de Carvalho was known for his skepticism about vaccination against the virus and often questioned the severity of the pandemic, even reaching the point of spreading misinformation about the virus on his social media.[60] According to his family, he died at a hospital outside of Richmond, Virginia.."

This about Mariellas murder:

"On 14 March 2018, while in a car after delivering a speech, Franco and her driver were shot multiple times[3] and killed by two[4] murderers in another vehicle, north of Rio de Janeiro.[3] Franco had been an outspoken critic of police brutality and extrajudicial killings,[5] as well as the February 2018 federal intervention by Brazilian president Michel Temer in the state of Rio de Janeiro which resulted in the deployment of the army in police operations.[6][3][4] In March 2019, two former police officers were arrested and charged with the murder of Marielle Franco.[7]"

Wtf, comparing those two is absolutely nuts.
 
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Yea, and something I think most people can relate to. This is really no big deal but of course a few extremists will be left butt hurt when their hypocrisy is pointed out.

Do you not think you're being particularly tabloid with your throwaway us of the word "extremist" here.......?

I mean, it's clear that you Deuterz Deuterz are completely polarized in your discussion...... You think he's an "extremist"?

......How does that in turn mesh with the actual extremists (right & left wing) in that video about Sweden?
 
No I didn't, it was an analogy. You implied that as long as he didn't vote for Bolsonaro because he's a homophobe, that makes it okay. The point is you don't have to share the horrible views of another person to endorse them.

'Homo rights' .. are you fucking okay? Disgusting. Foul voted.

And for the millionth time, I don't need to be tolerant of homophobes, or people who endorse homophobes. Tolerance isn't about being nice or accepting to people who want to strip others of their rights and dignity. Imagine growing up as someone who is LGBT in Brazil now and the leader of your country is a proud homophobe. Imagine how that makes you feel about your own identity and right to exist as a person.


Then imagine having to hear this shit from said leader. Fuck right off trying to disconnect this from morality. This really isn't the place for all this discussion (regardless of what lucas did/didn't endorse) so I'll leave it there, but some of you need to evaluate how much you value the basic rights of other human beings to exist freely.
Yeah 'homo rights' Err WTF. How about we just treat all PEOPLE respectfully starting on this forum
 
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