Most overrated Spurs players ?

[Bazali]

:eriksenlol:

I suspect it means "Anybody who's not [Blakey]" really.

Is your first name Stan?

 

[Airfixx]

Is your first name Stan?

Coincidence, but yeh.... An entire family... We're all christened Stan.

"People like us" need simplicity in life wherever possible.

 

[bus-conductor]

Dunno what the fook that's meant to mean, but "should have four"...?

Feel free to explain how that relates to Dier and Dembele and we can go from there.

Should have read "should have been four down".

He's physically on the decline. We know this, but if I'm being 'rose-tinted' then, your 10% synopsis is thoroughly 'shit-tinted' .



"People like [me]?

You seem to be repeatedly critiquing him for what he's been deployed to do.... Deep MFs doing deep MF things. He's not picked for dynamism & goal threat, so why even go down that path? Essentially that's a critique of Poch's selection/tactics, not an indication of MD's abilities being over-rated.

Granted, how to best utilise his skill-set has been a quandry at times throughout his tenure (3 diff managers didn't help!), but he's a god at what he does.

He hasn't just proved valuable against teams that come at us... A combo of Dier/Wanyama & Dembele have countless times helped us overcoming stubborn, packed and/or combative midfields. On the flipside, so many times he's NOT played we've struggled for space and time on the ball.

Maybe you personally would prefer to see us deploy a more traditional DLP-style option within our MF-blueprint (as per your own tactical vision), but that's another story.

I guess some of this comes down to personal preference and what we value. It's not a complete lack of goal threat, it's a complete lack of urgency or tempo to much of what he does with the ball, it's a lack of vision or incision in his passing, not just assisting but assisting the assist etc. I quite like my midfielders, even the ones with a more defensive remit, to move the ball with a bit of tempo, and I wouldn't mind so much if Dembele's dribbling was done more vertically, breaking lines and then playing an incisive pass, but the vast majority of it is horizontal and then ends with a safe pass. That's great when we are just trying to exert control, not so great when we are trying to create.

Neither of us know exactly what the nuances of his instructed tactical remit are, because neither of us are privy to Poch's conversations with him. All any of us can do is critique what we see and then apply our own interpretation of that and what we'd like it to be or feel it should be.

I agree that some of the problem is Poch's often risk averse deployment of his midfield.

In counter to your "he's not just useful in tough games" argument I would also point out that there's been plenty of tough games where he's been poor - like the Woolwich away or City games last year as recent examples.

It's this whole "he's a god" thing I struggle with. If football was played in a ten metre cage he'd be world champ. But it's not.

The fact that we achieved our best finish for 60 years with him only playing about 66% of the minutes, and then followed that up with another third, with him playing fifty odd percent, suggests he's not necessarily the pivotal player that many think he is. We can and have played some great football, against all types of opposition, without him.

I think on a good day he's a very useful footballer, with some fabulous attributes, he's sometimes outstanding, but I just don't always think those attributes are as useful as others do.

 

[OffTheBench]

I thought Sandro was great actually, not really overrated at all. Just ruined by injuries. He had a half season (AVB era?) where the ball just stuck to his feet.

 

[Airfixx]

Should have read "should have been four down".

I guess some of this comes down to personal preference and what we value. It's not a complete lack of goal threat, it's a complete lack of urgency or tempo to much of what he does with the ball, it's a lack of vision or incision in his passing, not just assisting but assisting the assist etc. I quite like my midfielders, even the ones with a more defensive remit, to move the ball with a bit of tempo, and I wouldn't mind so much if Dembele's dribbling was done more vertically, breaking lines and then playing an incisive pass, but the vast majority of it is horizontal and then ends with a safe pass. That's great when we are just trying to exert control, not so great when we are trying to create.

In the case of your comments, sure (especially considering your insistence on dragging Dier into a fray that he isn't notably a part of)... Myself, not so much. I'm not an 'armchair management' kind of guy.

Neither of us know exactly what the nuances of his instructed tactical remit are, because neither of us are privy to Poch's conversations with him. All any of us can do is critique what we see and then apply our own interpretation of that and what we'd like it to be or feel it should be.

Touche, but Poch wouldn't be playing him to do stuff that isn't part of his skill-set (quick & rangey passing, goals...) and yet he continues to play him 3/4 years in.... So it's fairly safe to assume any gripe Poch may have with his level or skillset and ability would be minimal at most.

I agree that some of the problem is Poch's often risk averse deployment of his midfield.

Not that I see a problem as such, but yeh you clearly do, so best direct your critique n the appropriate direction was my previous point on that front.

In counter to your "he's not just useful in tough games" argument I would also point out that there's been plenty of tough games where he's been poor - like the Woolwich away or City games last year as recent examples.

It's this whole "he's a god" thing I struggle with. If football was played in a ten metre cage he'd be world champ. But it's not.

Players will have poor games.

I said "He's a god at what he does". Shortening my statement is disingenuous.

The fact that we achieved our best finish for 60 years with him only playing about 66% of the minutes, and then followed that up with another third, with him playing fifty odd percent, suggests he's not necessarily the pivotal player that many think he is. We can and have played some great football, against all types of opposition, without him.

Across 4 competitions that sounds like a fairly substantial amount of game-time to me.

The drop off in % last year coincides with his physical decline. No deeper narrative there hence the majority expected him to leave this summer.

I think on a good day he's a very useful footballer, with some fabulous attributes, he's sometimes outstanding, but I just don't always think those attributes are as useful as others do.

That's one sentence and tells me everything I needed to know about your opinion; no long-form debate necessary. Less is sometimes more.... Recurring theme here methinks.