-
The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...
History OK, enough's enough.... The Sol Campbell stuff needs to stop!
- Thread starter 1882
- Start date
Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports
Thanks for your reply. You are committed to your various PoV. Mine are different and we can’t all agree on everything.
My understanding is that Sugar invested in Spurs after the Midland Bank had already accepted a debt restructure.
If I recall correctly it was a consortium who invested in the club, of which Sugar and El Tel were the primary figure heads. But I accept this is not especially relevant, but the funding did not come from his personal wealth.
At the same time Sugar was in the race to purchase Spurs, so were other high profile persons. A example being Philip Green. Who was in fact so close to the purchase that he had asked Maurice Keston to become Chairman and also a cheque was in hand and signed. I forget now why Scholar pulled out, greed most likely.
Robert Maxwell also wanted the club so badly that he was actually actively trying to stop Sugar’s consortium. No one is sad he didn’t win but try he did, for well over a year.
I would not be surprised if other less high profile companies, consortiums or people were in the purchase race too.
Given the fact that not one single claim for payment or writ etc was ever served against Spurs ( pre or post Sugar in fairness ) suggests that claims anyone were hours away from anything is sensationalist. People tell all kinds of stories for whatever reason, but the club was safe when Sugar invested.
Commenting on Scholar is going to take a while to add any balance! Some argue good, some argue bad. That’s the same from both a business and a football stand point.
Once under Sugar’s leadership I don’t agree he kept putting money in to keep us viable. He certainly was not as terrible as some might have been, but I am not in any sense grateful for what he claims.
I think, overall he oversaw awful recruitment and made terribly slow decisions, for the better part of the decade. There are some highs, but the lows are far greater. He’s perhaps best described as a non sporting businessman.
And for me the biggest contribution Sugar made to football was not in regards to Tottenham. It was in regard to his contribution and influence for the Sky TV deal. This was the catalyst for mega money for everyone involved. Following this new dawn then he was consistently making large sums of money, while we were being out spent by the likes of Steve Gibson at Boro. A point I have made above. Gibson was putting his own money into the team, Sugar was using club money to tick along.
Sugar, like all Chairman would have had responsibility to try their hardest to win. I don’t think he ever did this at Tottenham. It seemed his approach was compromised and cautious.
In the end he more than doubled his investments and left. Here is a fair rhetorical question… Were Spurs twice as good as a club when he left ?
Recognising this is an over simplification, the answer is no.
Owning Spurs paved the way for Sugar to make money - lots of money! His investment was not one of love, but one akin to disaster capitalist behaviour. Which is not illegitimate by the way. £5million investment in Spurs I believe ended up a £47million return. In 2007 an eternally grateful Sky TV took Amstrad off Sugar's hands for £125million.
In respect of George Graham, I recognise my opinion is not a popular one. However, I have both sympathy and respect for him.
He took over the awful Gross side and won a trophy. Through an astonishing run to the final which included beating significantly better Liverpool and United sides. That was a remarkable feat within mere months of taking over the worst team we had had for decades.
Back in 99 it meant a lot to the club to turn back from those very real relegation fears, and be winning again. History forgets the achievement. Part of that is no one wants to see R Sol lifting a cup at Wembley ( what’s that about winning Sol ? )
I’ve always felt George’s reward for winning was horrible investment. He’d won a cup, again against all odds, returned the club to Europe and he got uninspiring dross such as Chris Perry and Leonhardsen through the door. It does not feel right even 26 years later.
For context Robbie Keane went to Coventry that same summer for more money than them two I mentioned combined! ( and yes Spurs would not pay the money back then )
The decision to keep buying players from Wimbledon has always been hard to explain, and only Rebrov really looked ambitious in GG’s era, but I don’t think this was Graham trying his hardest to stay 10th, more that the ownership was, it appeared “cautious” in regards to on field investments.
A second thing about Graham is that he was consistent regarding his views on Campbell and called out his bullshit a fair while before anyone else did. Here’s a lengthy quote;
"I think Sol is going to wait and see out his contract whatever happens and no matter who we buy,”
"The thing that is misleading is him saying that he wants to see the ambition of the club. I think to myself 'What do you think I've come here for? Just to wallow in mid-table? I want to win things, you're not the only one.'
"The fans perceive that Sol is saying that he will wait to see how ambitious the club are. I know that is not right. Whatever happens, Sol is going to use the Bosman route.
"I would love to build a team around him and we would offer him a breathtaking contract. But neither he nor his agent even want to sit down and talk about it”
The way Bulcher sacked Graham is not to the credit of Tottenham. It was a disgrace, and that Graham took them to court and won, says much. This was in hindsight a big warning about the ENIC era.
One final point. That a man is chronically ill and yet determines to get up and go to work and do his best for as long as possible to protect his team and deliver for his employer is something to be thankful for and respected. That is what Graham did in 2000 ending up in hospital for weeks because he didn’t put himself first, but put his job first, and therefore our club. And yet many of our fan base continue to portray the guy as some sort of double agent, it’s a tragedy really.
Sorry for the length of reply, but the personal abuse is probably best addressed through sharing how one sees the subject that is being debated.
One thing is for sure Sol is a complete ( add any word you like and I will agree )
Have a great weekend
Last edited:
A lot of what you say about Graham is true , I’ve met him a couple of times and he is very good company . The thing you fail to mention is how terrible the football was and his treatment of Ginola our only bright spot at the time . We did not like Nuno , Conte , Jose because they played the way George Graham did , it was always doomed to end thus . ENIC getting rid with zero class is just a given , it’s who they are mate as Ange might say.Thanks for your reply. You are committed to your PoV. Mine are different and we can’t all agree on everything.
My understanding is that Sugar invested in Spurs after the Midland Bank had already accepted a debt restructure.
If I recall correctly it was a consortium who invested in the club, of which Sugar and El Tel were the primary figure heads. But I accept this is not especially relevant, but the funding did not come from his personal wealth.
At the same time Sugar was in the race to purchase Spurs, so were other high profile persons. A example being Philip Green. Who was in fact so close to the purchase that he had asked Maurice Keston to become Chairman and also a cheque was in hand and signed. I forget now why Scholar pulled out, greed most likely.
Robert Maxwell also wanted the club so badly that he was actually actively trying to stop Sugar’s consortium. No one is sad he didn’t win but try he did, for well over a year.
I would not be surprised if other less high profile companies, consortiums or people were in the purchase race too.
Given the fact that not one single claim for payment or writ etc was ever served against Spurs ( pre or post Sugar in fairness ) suggests that claims anyone were hours away from anything is sensationalist. People tell all kinds of stories for whatever reason, but the club was safe when Sugar invested.
Commenting on Scholar is going to take a while to add any balance! Some argue good, some argue bad. That’s the same from both a business and a football stand point.
Once under Sugar’s leadership I don’t agree he kept putting money in to keep us viable. He certainly was not as terrible as some might have been, but I am not in any sense grateful for what he claims.
I think, overall he oversaw awful recruitment and made terribly slow decisions, for the better part of the decade. There are some highs, but the lows are far greater. He’s perhaps best described as a non sporting businessman.
And for me the biggest contribution Sugar made to football was not in regards to Tottenham and football, was regards to his contribution to the Sky TV deal. That was what was the catalyst towards mega money for everyone. Following this then he was consistently making large sums of money, while we were being out spent by the likes of Steve Gibson at Boro. A point I have made above.
Sugar, like all Chairman has a responsibility to try their hardest to win. I don’t think he did this.
In the end he doubled his investments and left. Here is a fair rhetorical question. Were Spurs twice as good as a club when he left ? Recognising this is an over simplification, the answer is no.
Owning Spurs paved the way for Sugar to make money - lots of money! His move was not one of love, but one akin to disaster capitalist behaviour. Which is not illegitimate by the way. £5million investment in Spurs I believe ended up a £47million return. In 2007 an eternally grateful Sky TV took Amstrad off Sugar's hands for £125million.
In respect of George Graham, I recognise my opinion in regards him is not a popular one.
I have sympathy and respect for him.
He took over the awful Gross side and won a trophy through an astonishing run including beating Liverpool and United and did that within the same season. That was a remarkable feat within months of taking over. Back in 99 it meant a lot to the club to turn back from the relegation fears.
I’ve always felt his reward for winning was horrible investment. He’d won a cup, returned the club to Europe and we got uninspiring dross such as Chris Perry and Leonhardsen through the door. It does not feel right even 26 years later.
For context Robbie Keane went to Coventry that same summer for more money than them two I mentioned combined!
The decision to keep buying players from Wimbledon has always been hard to explain, and only Rebrov really looked ambitious in GG’s era, but I don’t think this was Graham trying his hardest to stay 10th, more that the ownership was, it appeared “cautious”
A second thing about Graham was that he was consistent regarding his views on Campbell and called out his bullshit a fair while before anyone else did. Here’s a lengthy quote;
"I think Sol is going to wait and see out his contract whatever happens and no matter who we buy,”
"The thing that is misleading is him saying that he wants to see the ambition of the club. I think to myself 'What do you think I've come here for? Just to wallow in mid-table? I want to win things, you're not the only one.'
"The fans perceive that Sol is saying that he will wait to see how ambitious the club are. I know that is not right. Whatever happens, Sol is going to use the Bosman route.
"I would love to build a team around him and we would offer him a breathtaking contract. But neither he nor his agent even want to sit down and talk about it”
The way Bulcher sacked Graham is not to the credit of Tottenham. It was a disgrace, and that Graham took them to court and won, says much. This was in hindsight a big warning about the ENIC era.
One final point. If a man is chronically ill and yet determines to get up and go to work and do his best for as long as possible to protect his team and deliver for his employer is something to be thankful for and respected. That is what Graham did in 2000 ending up in hospital for weeks because he didn’t put himself first, but put his job first, and therefore our club.
Sorry for the length of reply, but the personal abuse is probably best addressed through sharing how one sees the subject that is being debated.
One thing is for sure Sol is a complete ( add any word you like and I will agree )
Have a great weekend
Yes, fair point the football was stodgy. The Ginola thing divides. On one hand under GG Ginola was amazing and player of the year. Does Graham deserve any credit there ?
We were all shocked when he was sold, and it wasn’t unusual for us to say it was another example of Graham hating flair. But he was right to sell Ginola as at that time he was finished at the top level, as his Villa spell evidences.
Did Graham hate flair ? Not sure to be fair, as he did have some even at his peak @ gooners.
Think Ginola through the towel in mentally and physically when we fucked him off out of it . I fully accept that is a view based on nothing more than my love for the way he played during an era of otherwise gloom. Maybe that view is a biased dream , but nothing wrong with the odd bit of delusion if it makes you happy . However I think Charles Manson thought that, so maybe not a good thing
This annoys me as I’m sure I’ve seen another clip of Neville and Carragher say that what Judas did to spurs was abhorrent to all football fans. But here Neville is playing to Judas and only references Spurs fans.
Be consistent. What absolutely poor interview style.
The thing that Judas doesn’t get is, it’s not that he left spurs. It was
- he told us fans multiple times he is going to sign a new contract and strung this along until he could go for free for his own financial benefit
- he had multiple options of destination but chose Arsewipes for some reason. I still don’t understand this decision.
Contrast this with Salah who is much more honourable. I would love for him to tell Liverpool fans he will sign a contract and then leave in the summer for ManU. Maybe The Overlap might then get some appreciation for what Judas did.
- he told us fans multiple times he is going to sign a new contract and strung this along until he could go for free for his own financial benefit
- he had multiple options of destination but chose Arsewipes for some reason. I still don’t understand this decision.
Contrast this with Salah who is much more honourable. I would love for him to tell Liverpool fans he will sign a contract and then leave in the summer for ManU. Maybe The Overlap might then get some appreciation for what Judas did.
Sky (the TV channel, not the agent, Sky Andrews) did a programme on this transfer saga recently and it showed clearly:
Campbell and his agent (Sky Andrews) had no intention of remaining at Spurs and were stringing along a host of clubs.
Every time the huge wage demand from Campbell is brought up by, e.g. Sugar, Campbell denies it was, “all about money”, and then goes on to blame a “leak” to the press on this matter by Tottenham as a justification for leaving and that the club apparently “betrayed” him. Sugar may be many things, but I don’t get the impression he is lying here.
Sky Andrews and possibly Campbell were conducting 3 am meetings at either Wenger or David Dein’s house to avoid the press; this is, obviously, sneaky behaviour.
This new accusation about the police and a Derby match (mentioning Colin Calderwood) is totally new to me - and I was following the transfer saga at the time and have had to reread about it periodically as it comes up. As this information is new to me and wasn’t mentioned before in interviews he (Campbell) has conducted even recently, I simply don’t believe this and believe it is Campbell throwing shit around to muddy the waters.
To my mind, Campbell wanted to go to Woolwich and wasn’t smart enough to orchestrate the move… Sky Andrews, however, was smart enough to. And he (Andrews) made enough money in this move to burn the several friends that he claimed to have lost over this move, to lose those friends.
Campbell never looked unhappy once he turned up at the infamous press unveiling. But he has to pay the piper at some point.
Campbell and his agent (Sky Andrews) had no intention of remaining at Spurs and were stringing along a host of clubs.
Every time the huge wage demand from Campbell is brought up by, e.g. Sugar, Campbell denies it was, “all about money”, and then goes on to blame a “leak” to the press on this matter by Tottenham as a justification for leaving and that the club apparently “betrayed” him. Sugar may be many things, but I don’t get the impression he is lying here.
Sky Andrews and possibly Campbell were conducting 3 am meetings at either Wenger or David Dein’s house to avoid the press; this is, obviously, sneaky behaviour.
This new accusation about the police and a Derby match (mentioning Colin Calderwood) is totally new to me - and I was following the transfer saga at the time and have had to reread about it periodically as it comes up. As this information is new to me and wasn’t mentioned before in interviews he (Campbell) has conducted even recently, I simply don’t believe this and believe it is Campbell throwing shit around to muddy the waters.
To my mind, Campbell wanted to go to Woolwich and wasn’t smart enough to orchestrate the move… Sky Andrews, however, was smart enough to. And he (Andrews) made enough money in this move to burn the several friends that he claimed to have lost over this move, to lose those friends.
Campbell never looked unhappy once he turned up at the infamous press unveiling. But he has to pay the piper at some point.
Last edited:
Thank you!!!
EXACTLY THIS!!!
If he just shuts the fukk up about it I will stop talking about how much I hate him.
I want to set the scene here as your breakdown is very objectively accurate for new fans who weren't around then need to know the state of things...in the 98/99 Season he was given the Captain's Armband from a very respected player Gary Mabbutt after he retired during that season we were shit. We lost 15 games that season but we as Fans held onto the cups, we got knocked out the FA cup to Newcastle but we kept on hoping VERY much we are doing now & against it all we won the League Cup!!! A FUKKIN TROPHY - that day was amazing for all Spurs fans & the club.
We had another shit season in 99/00 to then have our Captain who helped win a Trophy backstab the club, lie to the fans & destroy his Spurs legacy.
Look... Judas craves attention because he is irrelevant today. We obviously hate him but Woolwich have no special place for him. They never invite him back and if you ask their fans he wouldn't make their top 30 favourite players in the PL era. Heck they even have a mural for a set piece coach. Just imagine what a dagger to the heart that is for Judas. He must be one of the very few players in world football who doesn't have a club he can call home where fans adore him and it must eat him alive every fucking day hence the need to do these adverts and one off shows. Keep doing them Judas because this is the only way you think you can stay relevant but the fact is nobody gives a flying fuck about you. Even players like Sandro have a special place in our hearts... you, have a place in nobodies heart. Orange and Salted Caramel on ice waiting for the day I see that breaking news.
Last edited:
Exactly, even notts county could not wait to get rid of him and Macclesfield was too big for him
Ginola was player of the year in 1999 when Man Utd won the treble . Apparently the vote was split between Scholes,Keane and Beckham .I saw Ginola in 7 away games and lge cup final. Poor in them all. Very lucky to get that award.
Murual? Hilda Ogden esque.
Yeah. Totally valid point. He was often fairly ineffective away, often due to teams man to man marking or doubling up.
Having watched some of the recent coverage of the wankers move to the goons, something continues to trouble me.
I remember being sure months before it happened that he was considering Woolwich.
I am also recalling that Wenger had said in the press he would like him, and I do know I was told it wasn’t something r Sol would rule out. But now it’s presented like the Woolwhich were clock and dagger masterminds, and no one had a clue.
I even had a row with a Gooner at work in and around the Semi Final when the gooner was banging on about R Sol ducking out of the game because he was going to join the goons. So unless I am having a false memory event, the antics of the prick were a bit more open than is now claimed.
I remember being sure months before it happened that he was considering Woolwich.
I am also recalling that Wenger had said in the press he would like him, and I do know I was told it wasn’t something r Sol would rule out. But now it’s presented like the Woolwhich were clock and dagger masterminds, and no one had a clue.
I even had a row with a Gooner at work in and around the Semi Final when the gooner was banging on about R Sol ducking out of the game because he was going to join the goons. So unless I am having a false memory event, the antics of the prick were a bit more open than is now claimed.
I'm not having that. I was a season ticket holder and went to 10-12 away games. Ginola was the only player worth the entrance fee in that squad... he'd of had 40 assists that season if we had a half decent striker.
Last edited:
God what we would give for peak David now
Half a percent is 5k , even 30 years ago that was not a lot of money I would imagine for Scholar . Pretty small beer earner , not saying it’s not true just staggeringly cheap.
