Part of the problem is a lack of youth players coming through

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The problem also is the expectations on these young players, people think that just because we've produced a Harry Kane then all our academy graduates should be near or close to his level, it doesn't work like that.

Our academy actually is really good and has been in it's best shape for a long time, players like Tanganga, Skipp, Devine, Scarlett would have broken through in this team without a sweat 10 years ago, as in be playing week in week out and reach a level where they are constantly getting picked and improving but we as a club are at a stage now to push for honours so unless you're a Kane-lite or even a player who has super high potential like Skipp then you're always going to struggle to get in this team, it's not just us the vast majority of teams in the Premier League are having the same issue, unless you're a potential star in the making then forget about it.

Not all players are gonna make it out the academy, as far as we are concerned if they make it to some sort of level and we sell them on for profit then it's a success, we've done our bit putting time, money and effort into them and in that respect it's paid off so the likes of Livermore, Carroll, Pritchard are seen as flops, I don't see it like that at all - that means the investment into the academy is paying off.
 
Chelsea have done very well with their academy. And what they have shown any young player is that you can join their academy and have an amazing career -- even if you can't break into their first team -- because they obviously provide excellent coaching and they navigate the loan system better than any other club. So any top young player will be glad to sign for them.

I hate the cunts, but we need to try and emulate what they do with their youth setup as best we can.
 
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Don't most of those players come in for free at very young ages?

Mount's been at Chelsea since he was 6.

I'm curious how all of this works actually if anyone has insight about that.

How does the life of a precocious young footballer in London progress?
Mount was at, or had the option of, Portsmouth didn’t he, came from there I think, but Portsmouth were a mess at the time?
 
Don't most of those players come in for free at very young ages?

Mount's been at Chelsea since he was 6.

I'm curious how all of this works actually if anyone has insight about that.

How does the life of a precocious young footballer in London progress?

Most clubs will sign up players at a young age.

But each and every year some players may be dropped by a club as they are not seen to be making progress, and sometimes players want to change as they don't like coach/don't think they are playing enough/etc

Its also worth mentioning that at younger age groups, the ratio of players to coaches can be as high as 1 ; 30, but by the time of full time training (Academy Year 1) that ratio drops to 1: 15 (maximum allowed under PL regulations ) - Spurs can have intakes at that age of anywhere from 10 to typically 14 players.

So at that Academy Year 1 stage Spurs might have half that intake who have trained at Spurs from lets say age 10, but the other half of the youngsters will have joined at different ages. And there seems to be a mad scramble at age 16 to get the final 'better' youngsters into the academy.

Chelsea and ManCity have a reputation of paying youngsters wages which are multiple times what other clubs are paying. So no surprise they do get a fair number of very good youngsters going to them - but don't forget before Lampard brought through lots of youngsters, I think that John Terry had been about the only youngster brought through in a decade. with many very good youngsters leaving to join other clubs.

London is a very competitive recruiting ground as not only are all the London clubs recruiting but Man City are very active - possibly one of the reasons why Brentford no longer run an academy.

Spurs had a time pre-Poch when a fair number of youngsters got through to play a number of games for first team as squad players - both through loaning players out and playing them in first team. Its always been understood that academies bring through players for the first team, but a number of the players will eventually prove to not get to the level required and move on - giving useful transfer fees. No surprise that Poch decided to prune excess youngsters - and those sold (Mason and Bentaleb who were Poch's first choice at CM in his first season, Carroll, Townsend, Pritchard, Veljkovic and others) generated over £100m in transfer fees which went to boost transfer funds, whilst keeping the brest youngster in Kane

What is a surprise is that over Poch's reign only Winks was brought through - and with Poch not approving loans for youngsters, the only way to get youngsters minutes was playing for the first team.

Strangely it was Mourhino who resurrected the loan system which enabled Skipp to get the experience needed to bring him into the first team, and other youngsters have also benefitted from loans.

However the fact remains that over 6 years there was NO adequate system to bring youngsters through (no loans) - so no surprise we now find ourselves in a position where we do not have enough HG players. And yet in those 6 years we had 2 players from a World Cup winning U17 team (Eyoma and Oakley-Boothe) and a number of other highly rated youngsters, so had there been a better system over those 6 years we might well have had a similar number of squad players coming through - and maybe a further £100m in transfer fees incoming and possibly one or two who might have been good enough to stay.

We are where we are, and need to be aware that whilst we have a number of promising youngsters coming through, its very unlikely we will get another Skipp come through to be a full time regular next season, simply because it takes several years to bring most youngsters through/

Potential players who might get to become first team squad players might include :

Markandy - 20 year old winger.striker
White - 20 year old M/CM
Parrett - 18 year old striker
John - 18 year old CM
Paskotsi - 18 year old CB
Devine - 17 year old midfielder
Scarlett - 17 year old striker

And there are quite a few others who might make it such as Walcott (CB),, Lusala (RB), Bennett (winger/striker), Robson (midfield) and others, they just need the breaks to get experience. Having said that the odds are probably that only say 25% of these will get to play more than a couple of games at Spurs - and in a very good year we might bring through two players into first team.

So in short, provided the club loans out youngsters to good clubs, the manager plays some in first teams and importantly allows half a dozen or more to play in pre-season games, we could/should resume getting youngsters through into the first team - as squad players. But it will be one or two players a year not more - worth remembering that when Lampard brought about 6 players into the first team in one year that was from about 4 age groups (ie one or two from multiple age groups).
 
Re: Chavs - Breaking youth recruitment rules on numerous occasions very much helps too.....

Another scenario where rulebreaking allows you to prosper despite relatively meek punishment.

Also see FFP breaches/Man City.
Crux of the problem and one which hasn’t ( and probably never will be) properly scrutinsed and leaves other clubs flailing behind
 
You can't possibly know they're good until they actually play in the first team.
It's like scouting the domestic league in San Marino and picking out the best player as being ready for the PL

Correct to the bolded bit.

Its better if they can prove themselves out on loan - but not essential - and equally better if they play preseason football. But the acid test is playing for the first team.

Ledley King made is debut as a DM with a player called Thelwell as CB - Thelwell looked the better player for his first half dozen appearances but after that King was the man. Thelwell dropped after about 10 starts, and eventually left

So the moral of the story - you have to play them in first team before being absolutely sure they are good enough.

And then you win sometimes, and lose (make bad player judgements) other times.


The same is true when buying players - some turn out to be excellent .... others do not . Its a risk whichever way you go
.
 
Correct to the bolded bit.

Its better if they can prove themselves out on loan - but not essential - and equally better if they play preseason football. But the acid test is playing for the first team.

Ledley King made is debut as a DM with a player called Thelwell as CB - Thelwell looked the better player for his first half dozen appearances but after that King was the man. Thelwell dropped after about 10 starts, and eventually left

So the moral of the story - you have to play them in first team before being absolutely sure they are good enough.

And then you win sometimes, and lose (make bad player judgements) other times.


The same is true when buying players - some turn out to be excellent .... others do not . Its a risk whichever way you go
.

Ah, Alton Thelwell, who could forget.
Oh yeah, all of us.
 
After Inglethorpe then McDermott left, we simply have no infrastructure for it.

Turns out, real estate wasn't after all what made football success.
 
Chelsea have done very well with their academy. And what they have shown any young player is that you can join their academy and have an amazing career -- even if you can't break into their first team -- because they obviously provide excellent coaching and they navigate the loan system better than any other club. So any top young player will be glad to sign for them.

I hate the cunts, but we need to try and emulate what they do with their youth setup as best we can.
They had 37 players out on loan last season!!! They "only" have 22 out this season...no other club in the fucking world can do that...
 
Ah, Alton Thelwell, who could forget.
Oh yeah, all of us.

Nice guy I am sure, but after Spurs he spent most of the next 6 years at Hull, and Leyton Orient mainly in League 1 .... and after that non league.

But that was after someone at Spurs thinking he was a decent choice to try out at Spurs - with 20/20 hindsight not a great choice but at the time and on basis of his first half dozen games or so it was a perfectly understandable choiice.

As I say you take a punt on young players - some of whom look good enough to stick with others don't

And not all bought players work out either.
 
The problem also is the expectations on these young players, people think that just because we've produced a Harry Kane then all our academy graduates should be near or close to his level, it doesn't work like that.

Our academy actually is really good and has been in it's best shape for a long time, players like Tanganga, Skipp, Devine, Scarlett would have broken through in this team without a sweat 10 years ago, as in be playing week in week out and reach a level where they are constantly getting picked and improving but we as a club are at a stage now to push for honours so unless you're a Kane-lite or even a player who has super high potential like Skipp then you're always going to struggle to get in this team, it's not just us the vast majority of teams in the Premier League are having the same issue, unless you're a potential star in the making then forget about it.

Not all players are gonna make it out the academy, as far as we are concerned if they make it to some sort of level and we sell them on for profit then it's a success, we've done our bit putting time, money and effort into them and in that respect it's paid off so the likes of Livermore, Carroll, Pritchard are seen as flops, I don't see it like that at all - that means the investment into the academy is paying off.
Devine and scarlett are nowhere near prem league level atm
 
I do not really follow our youth teams but they have just lost Mason as Development Manager and not sure who takes over. However it is not just about developing players but it should be about developing a winning mentality. I may be wrong but I do not think our youth teams have been any more successful than the first team in winning trophies. Not sure if that is because they are not good enough or because we do not always field the strongest team due to say sending players on loan or just not developing the mental toughness required. I would like to see the development teams to actually win things.
 
I do not really follow our youth teams but they have just lost Mason as Development Manager and not sure who takes over.

Def. need to establish our new 'McDermot'(***)..... Been too much churn on that front since he left.



***Another job for Don Fab (Senior squad re-vamp..... Integration of Conte...... Scouting overhaul....... Youth staffing........ We really are starting from virual scratch aren't we!?!?)......
 
They had 37 players out on loan last season!!! They "only" have 22 out this season...no other club in the fucking world can do that...
Is there a reason no other club can do that, though, honestly? The reality is that Chelsea's youth system runs a consisten profit. I find the idea that they run the shadow squad business unsettling from the idea that they're targeting the market in opposition to its intent, but they aren't burning money other clubs don't have to burn.

They're investing at a consistent profit as speculators in the youth footballers market. If we'd take the money we've wasted trying to "score value" buying supposed A+ players for B- prices like Sanchez and GLC, and paying them significant wages as well, on an expanded youth setup that brought in higher quality and quantity, we'd be churning a consistent profit as well and increasing our odds of finding a Kane or a King.

In fact, out of all of his successes and failures, it was when we were doing similar work buying young potential and selling at high value, that Levy looked like he actually knew approximately what the fuck he was doing. Maybe he ought to take a step back and focus on trying to get the academy burning full blast and leave the first team to Paratici and Conte.
 
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