Please explain the homegrown rules

[hiatus]

Well, when a mommy and a daddy love each other very much...

 

[Atomic knob]

Ok, got it. So, Dier is portugese, Davies is English outside of England, but is English in England. Foyth, born in Argentina, will be English next year. Does any of this BS have anything to do with Brexit?

 

[sudoku]

EL rules: Dier was trained in Portugal. Non-HG.
EPL rules: Dier was trained in Portugal. Non-HG.
EL rules: Davies was trained in Wales. Non-HG.
EPL rules: Davies is HG.
EL rules: Sessegnon has not been with us 2 years: Association.
EPL rules: Sessegnon: U21.
EPL Gedson is U21, EL Gedson is Non-HG.

	EPL	EL
	NON-HG (15)	NON-HG (17)
1	LLORIS	LLORIS	1
2	GAZZANIGA	GAZZANIGA	2
3	AURIER	AURIER	3
4	ALDERWEIRELD	ALDERWEIRELD	4
5	SANCHEZ	SANCHEZ	5
6	DIER	DIER	6
7	SISSOKO	SISSOKO	7
8	NDOMBELE	NDOMBELE	8
9	LAMELA	LAMELA	9
10	LO CELSO	LO CELSO	10
11	BERGWIJN	BERGWIJN	11
12	MOURA	MOURA	12
13	SON	SON	13
14	HOJBJERG	HOJBJERG	14
15	FOYTH	FOYTH	15
		DAVIES	16
		GEDSON	17
	HG (6)	ASSOCIATION (3)
1	ALLI	ALLI	1
2	HART	HART	2
3	DAVIES	SESSEGNON	3
		CLUB TRAINED (3)
4	WINKS	WINKS	1
5	KANE	KANE	2
6	ROSE	ROSE	3
	SQUAD TOTAL: 21	SQUAD TOTAL: 23
	EPL	EL
	SQUAD OF 25	SQUAD OF 25
	MAX 17 NON-HG	MAX 17 NON-HG
	IF 17 NON-HG	IF 17 NON-HG
	MAX 8 HG	MAX 8 HG
		(MAX 4 ASSOCIATION)
	U21 on 1st Jan in	year season starts
	(UNDER 21)	LIST B (UNDER 21)
	No restrictions	With Spurs 2 years

We are maxed out Non-HG in EL so we need to sell or loan Gazza (?), Foyth (?) before we can add.

 

[RocketRonny]

It’s like taxation law, you don’t really get it until you’re blasted in the ass for violating some minor bylaws

 

[FokkenPrawn]

And some foreign players ARE homegrown

"Home Grown' simply means that a player must have been on the books of a club affiliated with the Football Association for at least three years before they turn 21 – it does not mean that they have to be English. "

 

[FightingIllini]

The Dier thing I understand the rationale for, but the Davies thing is utterly absurd. Swansea City play in the English league system! The whole point is to incentivize national league systems to develop their own players!

 

[Spursidol]

If we are keeping Gedson Fernandes, I wonder if we register him to play in PL and domestic cups where he will be an u21, but not register him in europa league (where he would take up an overseas trained player place).

Would 'free up' an overseas trained player place in EL squad ?!

 

[sudoku]

EL rules: Dier was trained in PortugaL: Non-HG.
EPL rules: Dier was trained in Portugal: Non-HG.
EL rules: Davies was trained in Wales: Non-HG.
EPL rules: Davies: HG.
EL rules: Gedson: Non-HG.
EPL rules: Gedson: U21.
EL rules: Clarke has not been with us 2 years: Association.
EPL rules: Clarke: U21.

	EPL	EL
	NON-HG (16)	NON-HG (18)
1	LLORIS	LLORIS	1
2	GAZZANIGA	GAZZANIGA	2
3	AURIER	AURIER	3
4	ALDERWEIRELD	ALDERWEIRELD	4
5	SANCHEZ	SANCHEZ	5
6	DIER	DIER	6
7	REGUILON	REGUILON	7
8	HOJBJERG	HOJBJERG	8
9	SISSOKO	SISSOKO	9
10	NDOMBELE	NDOMBELE	10
11	LAMELA	LAMELA	11
12	LO CELSO	LO CELSO	12
13	BERGWIJN	BERGWIJN	13
14	MOURA	MOURA	14
15	SON	SON	15
16	VINICIUS	VINICIUS	16
		DAVIES	17
		GEDSON	18
	HG (9)	ASSOCIATION (4)
1	HART	HART	1
2	DOHERTY	DOHERTY	2
3	ALLI	ALLI	3
4	DAVIES	CLARKE	4
		CLUB TRAINED (5)
5	WHITEMAN	WHITEMAN	1
6	CCV	CCV	2
7	WINKS	WINKS	3
8	KANE	KANE	4
9	BALE	BALE	5
	SQUAD TOTAL: 25	SQUAD TOTAL: 27
	EPL	EL
	SQUAD OF 25	SQUAD OF 25
	MAX 17 NON-HG	MAX 17 NON-HG
	IF 17 NON-HG	IF 17 NON-HG
	MAX 8 HG	MAX 8 HG
		(MAX 4 ASSOCIATION)
	U21 on 1st Jan in	year season starts
	(UNDER 21)	LIST B (UNDER 21)
	No restrictions	With Spurs 2 years

Window closed. Provisional squads above.
EPL squad is kosher at 25.
EL squad we need to lose one non-HG.
It's between Gedson and Gazza IMO.
If he keeps Gazza then Whiteman will be dropped and that is 25 total.
If he keeps Gedson then Whiteman will stay and one other association or club trained player must be dropped.
Highly likely to be CCV so maybe slight chance Jose keeps Clarke and plays him in any dead rubber games?

 

[toothy]

Thanks. Very useful.

I'm optimistic and assume we're going to be strong in the PL as well as all the cups. If we do make a push in the PL, then I can see situations where Mourinho will want to keep key players fresh by resting them in the easier EL group games.

If this logic is correct, then I suspect Mourinho will be very tempted to include Gedson in the EL squad as extra midfield legs, which would necessitate Gazza dropping out for either Whiteman or Austin.

My sense is that if either Aurier or Sissoko had left in this window, Mourinho would have promoted Gedson to their squad place. Obviously both stayed. But Gedson's best chance of getting game time is surely in the EL. So if we don't select him in the squad, I see almost no point in keeping him around.

It's better to keep Gedson in the EL squad than Gazza. Outfield players are more likely to get injured. So a backup CM will probably get more minutes than a 3rd choice keeper.

The only issue is Covid. If both Lloris and Hart are tested positive together, we might be in a spot of bother. Although I believe there's a UEFA rule that states we can play a goalkeeper who's registered to us but wasn't included in the original squad if such a situation arises.

 

[ShutUpPatrik]

Foyth won't class as homegrown. He hasn't spent enough time in England.

You need to have spent 3 years on the books at an English club before you turn 21. Fairly certain Foyth just misses it.

 

[Fazz]

As far as Spurs are concerned we have 2 British players Dier and Davies.
Because Dier started his career in Portugal he is classed as non-HG for both the ECL and EPL.
Because Davies started his career in Wales he is classed as non-HG for ECL but not EPL.
All our other British players are classed as HG.
Unless you care about how the issue affects other clubs that's basically it.

Edit: Foyth (similar to Dier) will have spent his early career in England so from season 2020-21 he will be considered HG for both ECL and EPL.

 

[RealCoolYid]

Just keep your ph at 5.8 and your ec near 1.8 at the end and you won’t go far wrong

(Well someone had to )

 

[sudoku]

Wanyama stays. Here are the updated squads:
(FURTHER UPDATED 4 SEPT GEORGIOU)

Hopefully this is correct:

ECL rules: Dier was trained in Portugal. Non-HG.
EPL rules: Dier was trained in Portugal. Non-HG.
ECL rules: Davies was trained in Wales. Non-HG.
EPL rules: Davies is HG.
ECL rules: Foyth has been at Spurs 2 years and is List B (U 21).
EPL rules: Foyth : U21
ECL rules: Parrott joined Spurs on 1/7/18 so can't be U21. Trained 2017-18 Ireland. Non-HG.
EPL rules: Parrott: U21.
ECL rules: Sessegnon has not been with us 2 years: Association.
EPL rules: Sessegnon: U21.

EPL	ECL
SQUAD OF 25	SQUAD OF 25
MAX 17 NON-HG	MAX 17 NON-HG
IF 17 NON-HG	IF 17 NON-HG
MAX 8 HG	MAX 8 HG
	(MAX 4 ASSOCIATION)
U 21 ON 1ST JAN IN	YEAR SEASON STARTS
(UNDER 21)	LIST B (UNDER 21)
No restrictions	With Spurs 2 years
EPL	ECL
NON-HG (15)	NON-HG (17)
LLORIS	LLORIS
GAZZANIGA	GAZZANIGA
AURIER	AURIER
ALDERWEIRELD	ALDERWEIRELD
VERTONGHEN	VERTONGHEN
SANCHEZ	SANCHEZ
DIER	DIER
SISSOKO	SISSOKO
WANYAMA	WANYAMA
ERIKSEN	ERIKSEN
NDOMBELE	NDOMBELE
LAMELA	LAMELA
LO CELSO	LO CELSO
MOURA	MOURA
SON	SON
	DAVIES
	PARROTT
HG (7)	ASSOCIATION (2)
DAVIES	SESSEGNON
ALLI	ALLI
	CLUB TRAINED (4)
KWP	KWP
ROSE	ROSE
WINKS	WINKS
GEORGIOU
KANE	KANE
SQUAD TOTAL: 22	SQUAD TOTAL: 23

 

[Spursidol]

EL rules: Dier was trained in Portugal. Non-HG.
EPL rules: Dier was trained in Portugal. Non-HG.
EL rules: Davies was trained in Wales. Non-HG.
EPL rules: Davies is HG.
EL rules: Sessegnon has not been with us 2 years: Association.
EPL rules: Sessegnon: U21.
EPL Gedson is U21, EL Gedson is Non-HG.

	EPL	EL
	NON-HG (15)	NON-HG (17)
1	LLORIS	LLORIS	1
2	GAZZANIGA	GAZZANIGA	2
3	AURIER	AURIER	3
4	ALDERWEIRELD	ALDERWEIRELD	4
5	SANCHEZ	SANCHEZ	5
6	DIER	DIER	6
7	SISSOKO	SISSOKO	7
8	NDOMBELE	NDOMBELE	8
9	LAMELA	LAMELA	9
10	LO CELSO	LO CELSO	10
11	BERGWIJN	BERGWIJN	11
12	MOURA	MOURA	12
13	SON	SON	13
14	HOJBJERG	HOJBJERG	14
15	FOYTH	FOYTH	15
		DAVIES	16
		GEDSON	17
	HG (5)	ASSOCIATION (3)
1	ALLI	ALLI	1
2	HART	HART	2
3	DAVIES	SESSEGNON	3
		CLUB TRAINED (2)
4	WINKS	WINKS	1
5	KANE	KANE	2
	SQUAD TOTAL: 20	SQUAD TOTAL: 22
	EPL	EL
	SQUAD OF 25	SQUAD OF 25
	MAX 17 NON-HG	MAX 17 NON-HG
	IF 17 NON-HG	IF 17 NON-HG
	MAX 8 HG	MAX 8 HG
		(MAX 4 ASSOCIATION)
	U21 on 1st Jan in	year season starts
	(UNDER 21)	LIST B (UNDER 21)
	No restrictions	With Spurs 2 years

We are maxed out Non-HG in EL so we need to sell or loan Gazza (?), Foyth (?) before we can add.
We have 1 HG slot available in EL assuming Hart signs.

Rose is currently at Spurs and saying he will see out his contract here. Not sure if he will, but he'd be an extra Club trained player.......just a question of whether he's pissed off the rest of the dressing room and fans with his 'interviews' and statements over the last 2 or 3 years.......and dont think he pulled up that many trees on loan at Newcastle otherwise they would want him back and we'd be £5m/£10m better off.

I would suggest the players under threat are (in no order) Foyth, Aurier, Sissoko, Lamela depending upon who comes in - with uncertainty over whether anyone will offer us a big enough deal for Ndombele otherwise he stays and plays.

IMO we may need 3 GK's and given neither Whiteman or Austin have much experience its veery possible Gazzaniga may stay.

 

[FightingIllini]

EL rules: Dier was trained in Portugal. Non-HG.
EPL rules: Dier was trained in Portugal. Non-HG.
EL rules: Davies was trained in Wales. Non-HG.
EPL rules: Davies is HG.
EL rules: Sessegnon has not been with us 2 years: Association.
EPL rules: Sessegnon: U21.
EPL Gedson is U21, EL Gedson is Non-HG.

	EPL	EL
	NON-HG (15)	NON-HG (17)
1	LLORIS	LLORIS	1
2	GAZZANIGA	GAZZANIGA	2
3	AURIER	AURIER	3
4	ALDERWEIRELD	ALDERWEIRELD	4
5	SANCHEZ	SANCHEZ	5
6	DIER	DIER	6
7	SISSOKO	SISSOKO	7
8	NDOMBELE	NDOMBELE	8
9	LAMELA	LAMELA	9
10	LO CELSO	LO CELSO	10
11	BERGWIJN	BERGWIJN	11
12	MOURA	MOURA	12
13	SON	SON	13
14	HOJBJERG	HOJBJERG	14
15	FOYTH	FOYTH	15
		DAVIES	16
		GEDSON	17
	HG (5)	ASSOCIATION (3)
1	ALLI	ALLI	1
2	HART	HART	2
3	DAVIES	SESSEGNON	3
		CLUB TRAINED (2)
4	WINKS	WINKS	1
5	KANE	KANE	2
	SQUAD TOTAL: 20	SQUAD TOTAL: 22
	EPL	EL
	SQUAD OF 25	SQUAD OF 25
	MAX 17 NON-HG	MAX 17 NON-HG
	IF 17 NON-HG	IF 17 NON-HG
	MAX 8 HG	MAX 8 HG
		(MAX 4 ASSOCIATION)
	U21 on 1st Jan in	year season starts
	(UNDER 21)	LIST B (UNDER 21)
	No restrictions	With Spurs 2 years

We are maxed out Non-HG in EL so we need to sell or loan Gazza (?), Foyth (?) before we can add.
We have 1 HG slot available in EL assuming Hart signs.

I don't know why I was under the impression that Foyth arrived young enough to be an HGP, but I was. Since he's not, it's really probably time to ship him on.

But we really need senior HGP's if we're ever going to fill out a squad. Rose and Carter-Vickers both qualify if either of them have a future at Spurs, Tanganga is a year away, Sessegnon is two, Skipp and Jack Clarke are three.

Levy's allergy to signing established English players is not without basis, the prices are ludicrous and the players are often limited. But it's that or compete with an arm behind our backs.

And again, the Davies thing under the UEFA rules is such bullshit.

 

[r-u-s-x]

Yeah, I know that. I was saying that I believe you can have more than 8 HG if you want? You just reduce the non-HG accordingly?

Yes the limit is on squad size with a maximum on non hg. All the squad can be hg if you want.

 

[sudoku]

No we are ok we have only 16 overseas trained players listed )one less than maximum 17) so can nominate 5 players (rather than 4) trained by other clubs affiliated to The FA to get to the maximum 25 man squad (with 4 club trained players.

Interesting that CCV is included as a Club Trained player even though it sounds as if he is off to Bournenouth now.

toothy Spursidol

Thanks. The penny just dropped about the association players.

If 17 non-HG then maximum 4 association.
If 16 non-HG then maximum 5 association.
If 15 non-HG then maximum 6 association etc.

Association-trained players – players who were on another club's books in the same association for three years between the ages of 15 and 21.
No club can have more than four association-trained players among their eight 'local' nominees on List A.

 

[Spursidol]

EL rules: Dier was trained in PortugaL: Non-HG.
EPL rules: Dier was trained in Portugal: Non-HG.
EL rules: Davies was trained in Wales: Non-HG.
EPL rules: Davies: HG.
EL rules: Gedson: Non-HG.
EPL rules: Gedson: U21.
EL rules: Clarke has not been with us 2 years: Association.
EPL rules: Clarke: U21.

	EPL	EL
	NON-HG (16)	NON-HG (18)
1	LLORIS	LLORIS	1
2	GAZZANIGA	GAZZANIGA	2
3	AURIER	AURIER	3
4	ALDERWEIRELD	ALDERWEIRELD	4
5	SANCHEZ	SANCHEZ	5
6	DIER	DIER	6
7	REGUILON	REGUILON	7
8	HOJBJERG	HOJBJERG	8
9	SISSOKO	SISSOKO	9
10	NDOMBELE	NDOMBELE	10
11	LAMELA	LAMELA	11
12	LO CELSO	LO CELSO	12
13	BERGWIJN	BERGWIJN	13
14	MOURA	MOURA	14
15	SON	SON	15
16	VINICIUS	VINICIUS	16
		DAVIES	17
		GEDSON	18
	HG (9)	ASSOCIATION (4)
1	HART	HART	1
2	DOHERTY	DOHERTY	2
3	ALLI	ALLI	3
4	DAVIES	CLARKE	4
		CLUB TRAINED (5)
5	WHITEMAN	WHITEMAN	1
6	CCV	CCV	2
7	WINKS	WINKS	3
8	KANE	KANE	4
9	BALE	BALE	5
	SQUAD TOTAL: 25	SQUAD TOTAL: 27
	EPL	EL
	SQUAD OF 25	SQUAD OF 25
	MAX 17 NON-HG	MAX 17 NON-HG
	IF 17 NON-HG	IF 17 NON-HG
	MAX 8 HG	MAX 8 HG
		(MAX 4 ASSOCIATION)
	U21 on 1st Jan in	year season starts
	(UNDER 21)	LIST B (UNDER 21)
	No restrictions	With Spurs 2 years

Window closed. Provisional squads above.
EPL squad is kosher at 25.
EL squad we need to lose one non-HG.
It's between Gedson and Gazza IMO.
If he keeps Gazza then Whiteman will be dropped and that is 25 total.
If he keeps Gedson then Whiteman will stay and one other association or club trained player must be dropped.
Highly likely to be CCV so maybe slight chance Jose keeps Clarke and plays him in any dead rubber games?

And if Rodon joins - overseas trained for both UEFA and EPL

Still a space for Rodon in the EPL side, but not in UEFA squad until January (and then only if we offload an overseas trained player) ?

 

[stevee]

And if Rodon joins - overseas trained for both UEFA and EPL

Still a space for Rodon in the EPL side, but not in UEFA squad until January (and then only if we offload an overseas trained player) ?

How is he overseas in the EPL ?

Surely he would be in the same bracket as Davies ?

 

[stevee]

I think we have to leave 2 foreign trained players out of our EL squad. Guess it will be Gazza and Gedson but given these are the only matches they would likely play before the January window it feels a bit crap on them. My main annoyance about this window is we havent sorted this issue out.

I can only guess that there is something in the contract that prevents us from cancelling Gedson's loan.
There is no other reason, that I can think of, that we have kept him.