Steve Hitchen

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HITCHENS IN OR OUT?


  • Total voters
    195
I don't know what he actually does. I do think our transfer record over the last 4 years is pretty abysmal. How much of that falls down to him i can't say and probably neither can anyone else.

If he's now the Technical Director, who is the Chief Scout? Or do we have one. Does anybody even know how our recruitment process is structured?

Everyone talks about us getting a DOF but he seems to be sort of doing that job by default.
 
Have we made even one successful signing since Hitchen took over from Mitchell, after Mitchell resigned following the 2016/17 summer window ?

Arguably Lucas Moura and Fernando Llorente

But Sanchez, Aurier, Foyth, Bergwijn, Ndombele,Lo Celso, Sessegnon, Clarke, Doherty, Reguillon, Hojberg, Rodon I think at best can all be described as jury is still out and that is being kind.

And when you consider those players listed above replaced in effect Walker, Rose, Vertonghen, Dembele, Trippier, Wanyama, Eriksen, and all the most important players in the squad pre-date Hitchen's four and a half year tenure, I think it is fair to say that the job he has performed has been very poor at best.

I was not impressed with him at all in the documentary, and some of those players may still come good and were maybe hamstrung by Jose, and his role may have been compromised by Levy (which given Mitchell's reasons for leaving probably holds true), but I think it would be fair to say that he has been promoted beyond his capabilities.
 
Arguably Lucas Moura and Fernando Llorente

But Sanchez, Aurier, Foyth, Bergwijn, Ndombele,Lo Celso, Sessegnon, Clarke, Doherty, Reguillon, Hojberg, Rodon I think at best can all be described as jury is still out and that is being kind.
The common theme that emerges there is a series of flashy individual traits in search of a footballer.
 
I think that Hitchen gets a lot more stick than he deserves.

Scouting/signing is a process. You get judged on results, but the scouting team are not really responsible for the results, in the sense that they don't coach the player, do their physio, or get their shit together like family might.

We also don't really know who made what decisions during the Pochettino-era. When Pochettino joined, first there was the tail end of Baldini. If he was running the process then we could fairly clearly say it was not very good at identifying talent, or convincing them to come. After Baldini exits, Mitchell comes along from Soton. He had worked alongside Pochettino, so there was a pre-existing relationship. Yay. But we don't know, of his signings, who did he pick, who were we already looking at, and what the process was. Given the way we were signing players, there seemed to be some solid use of data (and his subsequent long time at Red Bull would indicate that he knows how to do it properly), and we definitely had a plan. But he left quickly, apparently not a fan of being the fifth wheel in the Levy-Pochettino bromance. After that, we got a committee which was led by Pochettino. And that, I think we can clearly say, did NOT work. We couldn't find decent talent, and the guys we did sign didn't make a big difference for the squad. Pochettino was a brilliant coach, but the Fergie role of doing everything was clearly beyond him. And so we moved to a committee with Pochettino, Levy, and Hitchen. And signed no one that summer. Based on rumours and stories after the fact, it seems that Pochettino would not accept substitutes, but none of his preferred players wanted to join. So, nothing happened. And the squad burned the candle at both ends, got top 4, a CL final, and a major case of burnout. We then belatedly started to rebuild the following summer. Targets were identified and signed, data seemed to be used as the players were all prospects which had plenty of other suitors. But, the rebuild had started too late and Pochettino needed to go. Then we get Mourinho, and a summer where we seemed to mostly be signing the kind of guys he liked, but clearly on a COVID-imposed budget. We don't know how much was club directed, how much was Mendes required, or who asked for which players.

If we don't know what Hitchen was told to look for, then we cannot judge if he was any good. If he was asked to find aging warhorses for a bus-parking asshole, then hell, he seems to have done quite well. If his job was to find young talent to rebuild the squad, then perhaps not. If his job was to do both at the same time, then you can only feel sorry for the guy.

My point is just that you cannot just look at the players signed and draw conclusions. If we don't know the manager's requests and board restrictions then we don't know what he was being told to do. And if we don't know who the short lists for each position were we cannot judge how well he and his team identified talents vs Levy and Mourinho's ability to get them to join the club. And once players joined, we don't know how well they were coached, or how their fitness was taken care of. Neither of those things are Hitchen's job, but they affect how we judge the player. Football isn't a video game, and it isn't what the media says it is. It's actually really bloody complicated and we never, ever get the true stories of what goes on until many years later, if at all.
 
I think that Hitchen gets a lot more stick than he deserves.

Scouting/signing is a process. You get judged on results, but the scouting team are not really responsible for the results, in the sense that they don't coach the player, do their physio, or get their shit together like family might.

We also don't really know who made what decisions during the Pochettino-era. When Pochettino joined, first there was the tail end of Baldini. If he was running the process then we could fairly clearly say it was not very good at identifying talent, or convincing them to come. After Baldini exits, Mitchell comes along from Soton. He had worked alongside Pochettino, so there was a pre-existing relationship. Yay. But we don't know, of his signings, who did he pick, who were we already looking at, and what the process was. Given the way we were signing players, there seemed to be some solid use of data (and his subsequent long time at Red Bull would indicate that he knows how to do it properly), and we definitely had a plan. But he left quickly, apparently not a fan of being the fifth wheel in the Levy-Pochettino bromance. After that, we got a committee which was led by Pochettino. And that, I think we can clearly say, did NOT work. We couldn't find decent talent, and the guys we did sign didn't make a big difference for the squad. Pochettino was a brilliant coach, but the Fergie role of doing everything was clearly beyond him. And so we moved to a committee with Pochettino, Levy, and Hitchen. And signed no one that summer. Based on rumours and stories after the fact, it seems that Pochettino would not accept substitutes, but none of his preferred players wanted to join. So, nothing happened. And the squad burned the candle at both ends, got top 4, a CL final, and a major case of burnout. We then belatedly started to rebuild the following summer. Targets were identified and signed, data seemed to be used as the players were all prospects which had plenty of other suitors. But, the rebuild had started too late and Pochettino needed to go. Then we get Mourinho, and a summer where we seemed to mostly be signing the kind of guys he liked, but clearly on a COVID-imposed budget. We don't know how much was club directed, how much was Mendes required, or who asked for which players.

If we don't know what Hitchen was told to look for, then we cannot judge if he was any good. If he was asked to find aging warhorses for a bus-parking asshole, then hell, he seems to have done quite well. If his job was to find young talent to rebuild the squad, then perhaps not. If his job was to do both at the same time, then you can only feel sorry for the guy.

My point is just that you cannot just look at the players signed and draw conclusions. If we don't know the manager's requests and board restrictions then we don't know what he was being told to do. And if we don't know who the short lists for each position were we cannot judge how well he and his team identified talents vs Levy and Mourinho's ability to get them to join the club. And once players joined, we don't know how well they were coached, or how their fitness was taken care of. Neither of those things are Hitchen's job, but they affect how we judge the player. Football isn't a video game, and it isn't what the media says it is. It's actually really bloody complicated and we never, ever get the true stories of what goes on until many years later, if at all.
This is all fine and true as far as it goes, but there are two things I think should be added.

1. Exactly when it happened is unclear, but clearly Hitchen's influence on crafting the identity of the football team rather than just executing someone else's vision for it has grown. Or at the very least it's intended to grow with him heavily involved in the managerial search. He's a quasi-DoF now.

2. The logic laid out here can be used to route accountability around literally anybody. It can't always be a shell game. The list of players brought in by Hitchen has almost uniformly been disappointing in their ability to integrate into the team and make an impact relative to the player's profile and the price we've paid. Even the very best do not get 100% of transfers right, but Hitchen's record to this moment is fairly shocking and without a clear silver lining to be pointed to.
 
This is all fine and true as far as it goes, but there are two things I think should be added.

1. Exactly when it happened is unclear, but clearly Hitchen's influence on crafting the identity of the football team rather than just executing someone else's vision for it has grown. Or at the very least it's intended to grow with him heavily involved in the managerial search. He's a quasi-DoF now.

2. The logic laid out here can be used to route accountability around literally anybody. It can't always be a shell game. The list of players brought in by Hitchen has almost uniformly been disappointing in their ability to integrate into the team and make an impact relative to the player's profile and the price we've paid. Even the very best do not get 100% of transfers right, but Hitchen's record to this moment is fairly shocking and without a clear silver lining to be pointed to.
Can you show me the list? And can you show me what the list was in response to? If you can't then your argument makes no sense. Also, how do we know they haven't integrated? Seems like they are part of the squad, but the squad was pretty unhappy at having Jose shitting all over them. I don't really see that as a scouting failure.
 
Can you show me the list? And can you show me what the list was in response to? If you can't then your argument makes no sense. Also, how do we know they haven't integrated? Seems like they are part of the squad, but the squad was pretty unhappy at having Jose shitting all over them. I don't really see that as a scouting failure.
It’s quite lazy to say “we don’t know anything about the inner workings of the club, therefore my narrative for hypothetically absolving Hitchen of any blame is accurate and should be taken as true”

It’s true that at the end of the day we don’t know about the inner workings of the club. I think it’s a reasonable inference to say we’ve got deficiencies all over the shop given the things we do know.
 
It’s quite lazy to say “we don’t know anything about the inner workings of the club, therefore my narrative for hypothetically absolving Hitchen of any blame is accurate and should be taken as true”

It’s true that at the end of the day we don’t know about the inner workings of the club. I think it’s a reasonable inference to say we’ve got deficiencies all over the shop given the things we do know.
I tend to place the blame at a Chairman who does not know football interfering in football decisions, and managers with bad ideas at recruiting being given too much power in making player choices. I find clubs that do this well tend to give people like Levy or the manager much less influence on the process.
 
Don't know much about Hitchen, don't think any of us do really, but loads of our transfers over the last few years have been deals offered to the club, Poch targets, Mourinho targets. Last summer involved scrambling together what deals they could on a Covid budget.

Personally I think the likes of Ndombele, Gio, Bergwijn, Sessegnon, Reguilon, Rodon, maybe even Doherty could end up doing well with 21st century coaching and a more coherent team. Not Hitchen's fault Jose had some decent players shuffling around in a deep block.
 
has anyone got a list of the players recruited by Mitchell vs hitchen?
There's actually some degree of mystery as to when Mitchell fell out of the equation, but the January signing of Dele and then the following summer where we added Son, Toby, Trippier, Wimmer and N'Jie was definitely him.

It was during the following summer that you began hearing that he was looking to leave. Does that mean Nkoudou, Janssen and Sissoko weren't his fault? Who knows.

But Hitchen has been the head of the scouting department from the Summer 2017 window onward. So beginning with the Sanchez, Aurier, Llorente, Foyth flurry of activity late in that window.
 
Our transfer committee has been Hitchen, Levy & Mourinho. Hitchen heads up scouting, so he's the main guy finding targets, with Levy holding the power to say yes/no or we'll spend x but not y. The manager's role is more to determine what's needed, which position, which kind of player. I think that's more or less how it works.

In support of Hitchen, we do get linked with good players, but mostly don't seem to be able to pay the required fees. So maybe he's pushing hard for guys like Grealish and Bruno, but Levy can't see the value. On the other hand, we can be confident that Hitchen is the main man behind 'young talents' like N'koudou, Jack Clarke, Rodon, Ndombele. So he's not looking like a transfer genius either.

I suspect we can do better than Hitchen. But it's also urgent that Levy accepts that he's not well equipped to judge how much a player is worth and so give that responsibility to someone else, ideally a DoF. Levy should set the broad remit eg budget, but leave others who know what they're doing to decide how to spend it.
 
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Our transfer committee has been Hitchen, Levy & Mourinho. Hitchen heads up scouting, so he's the main guy finding targets, with Levy holding the power to say yes/no or we'll spend x but not y. The manager's role is more to determine what's needed, which position, which kind of player. I think that's more or less how it works.

In support of Hitchen, we do get linked with good players, but mostly don't seem to be able to pay the required fees. So maybe he's pushing hard for guys like Grealish and Bruno, but Levy can't see the value. On the other hand, we can be confident that Hitchen is the main man behind 'young talents' like N'koudou, Jack Clarke, Rodon, Ndombele. So he's not looking like a transfer genius either.

I suspect we can do better than Hitchen. But it's also urgent that Levy accepts that he's not well equipped to judge how much a player is worth and so give that responsibility to someone else, ideally a DoF. Levy should set the broad remit eg budget, but leave others who know what they're doing to decide how to spend it.
Ndombele apparently Poch's #1 transfer desire. Rodon apparently a link with some Swansea-affiliated person who joined the club this past summer. N'koudou, Bergwijn two you can definitely assume were Hitchen driven.
 
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