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Transfers Summer Transfer Thread 2023! - Closed (Maybe)
- Thread starter Fattynomates
- Start date
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That wasn’t my point at all. Did you read the post?
The only remotely controversial bit should have been:
« I think the current players can do significantly better next year with some proper coaching. I’m confident we’ll concede less with a far more attacking style of play »
Everything else was either factual or me saying I want a LCB.
To reply toHotspurpaul - I think the reaction to that post is testament to how unstable the fanbase is at the moment. It’s bad enough during a normal transfer window but people have lost their minds this year.
I think your underlying comment that 1 new LCB is only going to do so much as far as the starting XI goes is quite important.
Any further anticipated improvement will have to come from:
1. Romero getting his shit together
2. Porro & Udogie adapting well (who in fairness were not part of the 21/22 well performing crew that helped get 4th)
3. The overall team; in particular the re-vamped midfield and the propensity to have the ball.
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Needing to upgrade defensive players doesn’t just hinge on the number of goals they concede though. That’s a simplistic analysis. We need ball-playing centre halves with great passing and composure under pressure, plus need to upgrade speed for the high line as well. A defender with lacking offensive capabilities can be a liability for Ange’s system even if he’s good at defending itself.2019-20 - 7th best defensive record
2020-21 - 6th best defensive record
2021-22 - 4th best defensive record
2022-23 - 15th best defensive record
Which is the odd one out?
Come onDeuterz - you don’t need to fit a narrative to the evidence. Those are the facts and it’s clear which season is the anomaly.
These players are clearly capable of doing better than they have and to disagree runs counter to all the evidence. I am super in favour of signing a top class centreback but anyone objective can see that a lot of people are being blinded by one terrible season in their assessment - the most obvious case of recency bias you could imagine.
Serge Aurier effect
2019-20 - 7th best defensive record
2020-21 - 6th best defensive record
2021-22 - 4th best defensive record
2022-23 - 15th best defensive record
Which is the odd one out?
Come on
These players are clearly capable of doing better than they have and to disagree runs counter to all the evidence. I am super in favour of signing a top class centreback but anyone objective can see that a lot of people are being blinded by one terrible season in their assessment - the most obvious case of recency bias you could imagine.
We had the 6th and 7th best defensive record pre rise of Villa and Newcastle whilst playing low-block football? Wow, it must be good!
Last season was worse than it actually is, but in reality we have probably the 8th or 9th best defence in the league now.
That massively needs upgrading. They will be exposed in a high-press, high-line system badly, these fullbacks and a lot of the centre backs are built for 3-5-2/3-4-3 in a low-block.
Yeah, I mean this too ... with say a CB like Stones or prime VVD, defending is what they're doing only a relatively small % of the time. Stones is better on the ball than most midfielders!!!
They make playing out easy, they're superb under pressure, they inspire confidence throughout the rest of the team. Even when we weren't conceding goals we were sat in incredibly deep and struggling to play out of a press and conceding a stupid goal late in games under Jose.
Everyone blamed the coach back then & yeah he takes some responsibility, but fundamentally a lot of the time we had players who panic, who don't like being pressurized, and aren't good at holding on to a lead.
Absolutely not. PSG are reportedly willing to pay much higher but Kane isn't interested so Munich feel they have a closed market.
If there was a free market for Kane and he was open to Saudi, we'd probably see bids up to 150m easy.
Hojberg is a similar situation because it seems the player wants Atleti.
Only if PSG were interested in Hojberg for 40m then he'd probably want to know but they aren't...
I agree with your point about a ball-playing centreback which is why I said we need a new centreback.
But the key statement which people seem to be objecting to (unless they’re making up things I never said) is that the CURRENT defenders we have are capable of doing a lot better than last year with proper coaching. And yet no one seems to be supporting their arguments with relevant evidence. There’s a kind of tunnel vision.
A new laywer?
Of course they're better than 15th best. That was partly because we collapsed under Conte and nothing was functioning.
But they're still not good. 8th or 9th best is still massively under-par. And the collection we have is still very questionable when it comes to playing in a four. So the whole "they'll be better next year!"' isn't exactly inspiring when it means we concede 3 or 4 to Newcastle instead of 6.
I’m sure they are capable of doing better, hard to imagine doing any worse than last season. Especially Romero who was below par due to the World Cup focus imo.
But players like Sanchez, Dier, Tanganga…
How much better do you expect them to get?
Who has said that?
That’s pure conjecture presented as fact.
I agree we built a team for 3 at the back for a short term coach. You and others were forthright in your view that we should bring Porro in and that there were plenty of managers who play 3atb to replace conte with etc etc. I said that it was a failure in squad building and completely predictable because there was a very good choice we’d end up with a manager 4atb who would have no use for expensive fullbacks.
And here we are in July…
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Football is an immensely complex game, acting like those couple of seasons actually means anything is so ridiculous. We've had a fair bit of turnover in personnel in that time.
Off the top of my head, we've had Toby, Dier, Sanchez, Romero, Rodon, Aurier, Doherty, Reguilon, Emerson, Davies, Porro, Perisic, Sessegnon (and more?) in that back line in that time frame.
Acting like you can actually infer anything from the number of goals conceded in those seasons is just ignorant.
What is obvious from judging the players on their actual attributes is that they're not good enough. Dier obviously refuses to tackle, constantly passes to the opposition, there's no statstical bollocks you can pull to argue otherwise.
That Sanchez can barely walk without tripping over is unarguable. Etc etc.
So why the hell should we pin our hopes on Ange getting more out of these clowns instead of just getting rid of them and getting CBs that don't ask so much of the manager?
No idea what the fuck these other idiots are going on about.
No it isn't. It's based on where we were last season and the fact that pre-Conte in a 4 we hovered around 7th and since then multiple teams have got much better defensively i.e Villa, Woolwich, Newcastle etc. All massively improved in this regard. Until this group show otherwise, they're probably 8th/9th best. Why do they belong above them? We've got one serviceable CB, a completely unproven/raw goalkeeper, some young attacking full-backs only proven in a 5 and an Emerson.
I wanted Porro because at the time we were well in for top 4 and spent the entire window pissing about with him. Either drop the transfer entirely if you're not committed to Conte, or get him in and commit long-term to the 3/5 at least if not Conte. Instead we did neither. We bought the player, sacked Conte and completely changed style. And then some fans blame OTHER supporters for this transfer rather than the owners.
Perhaps the suspicion now is that Lloris was more to blame than many people are prepared to admit having defended his continued selection in the team under both Jose and Conte.
Dier is definitely going to be rehabilitated and Davies is part of the furniture.
Do the staff working on transfers work weekends?
Levy for example? He's just got back from the tour, probably knackered and jet lagged. Getting on a bit too. He's taking this weekend off for sure. Who can blame him?
But isn't this where a modern organization has a Paratici or whoever that can be calling clubs and agenst that are still working with weeks to go in the transfer market?
Surely some movement could have been happening with the likes of Rodon, Sanchez, Reguillon, Spence, Japhet?
Levy for example? He's just got back from the tour, probably knackered and jet lagged. Getting on a bit too. He's taking this weekend off for sure. Who can blame him?
But isn't this where a modern organization has a Paratici or whoever that can be calling clubs and agenst that are still working with weeks to go in the transfer market?
Surely some movement could have been happening with the likes of Rodon, Sanchez, Reguillon, Spence, Japhet?
I don’t expect Sanchez and Tanganga to start many games because they never have. When Sanchez has come into a functioning side then he has played well though and has shown he can be trusted more than the hyperbole you read on here. Remember at the end of 21-22 when we got 3 clean sheets to end the season including against Woolwich in high pressure games? He was fine.
He’s just not a starter.
Tanganga is last choice pick.
Dier I would sell but is objectively better than his bad performances last season (rumoured to be carrying an injury too).
When people in here come in hot (on a spurs forum) about fringe players like Sanchez and Tanganga they are missing the point.
If Levy doesn’t cash out on Kane now it’s an absolutely monumental failure.
I think Ange likes him.