The Don Levy Appreciation Thread!

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Disagree. The few ENIC supporters need to be hounded out. Apologists are as much of a problem for Spurs as ENIC themselves.
"Hounded out" really isn't a great term - if you genuinely mean that anyone who thinks differently to you should be removed from the forum, then that's a pretty poor attitude.

I absolutely get that the ENIC OUT crowd want their voice heard, and want it to be the dominant voice (and it definitely is on here) - that shouldn't mean that it's the only topic ever discussed on this forum, and it shouldn't mean that people who disagree (or at least don't feel so strongly) are 'hounded out' or have no place to express their views. Whilst many people agree with the sentiment of getting new owners etc, many of those same people also clearly feel that the 'eradicate anyone who disagrees' approach is not appropriate, and a bit like something very distasteful from centuries past. This can be seen from the number of people who post like / thanks on threads criticising that approach.

For me personally, I'd be far more likely to support any cause, including this one, if the protagonists accepted that each other have contrasting opinions that they are entitled to - I would struggle to support any movement that aimed to 'hound out' anyone with a different opinion, that's an astonishingly archaic way of 'winning' and ultimately leads to failure as the resulting / remaining group is then never genuinely representative of the wider fanbase, it has been achieved purely through bullying and 'hounding out'.
 
"Hounded out" really isn't a great term - if you genuinely mean that anyone who thinks differently to you should be removed from the forum, then that's a pretty poor attitude.

I absolutely get that the ENIC OUT crowd want their voice heard, and want it to be the dominant voice (and it definitely is on here) - that shouldn't mean that it's the only topic ever discussed on this forum, and it shouldn't mean that people who disagree (or at least don't feel so strongly) are 'hounded out' or have no place to express their views. Whilst many people agree with the sentiment of getting new owners etc, many of those same people also clearly feel that the 'eradicate anyone who disagrees' approach is not appropriate, and a bit like something very distasteful from centuries past. This can be seen from the number of people who post like / thanks on threads criticising that approach.

For me personally, I'd be far more likely to support any cause, including this one, if the protagonists accepted that each other have contrasting opinions that they are entitled to - I would struggle to support any movement that aimed to 'hound out' anyone with a different opinion, that's an astonishingly archaic way of 'winning' and ultimately leads to failure as the resulting / remaining group is then never genuinely representative of the wider fanbase, it has been achieved purely through bullying and 'hounding out'.
There are some, who are quite content with mediocrity, as long as the club makes money.
They're not Spurs fans. They're not even football fans.
 
There are some, who are quite content with mediocrity, as long as the club makes money.
They're not Spurs fans. They're not even football fans.
That may or may not be the case, but I'm still very uncomfortable (as are many people) with 'hounding out' those people because in your opinion they are not Spurs fans or football fans.

I very much doubt anyone joined this forum because they were fans of ENIC - I suspect 99.9% joined because they consider themselves Spurs fans (the other 0.1% being fans of particular players or managers who happen to be at Spurs). The way those 99.9% see things may not be the same as you see things, but it doesn't mean they're not fans - it may be (for example) that they have less ambition than you. (If you think about it, most clubs will never win anything, most fans just accept that, rightly or wrongly - that's doesn't mean they're not fans, just that they are realistic / unambitious (depending on your preferred interpretation)).

It seems to be a real problem on this forum for people to accept that other fans think differently to them. I know you get it on all forums, but normally only from the idiots who shout and bully, and of course that's true here too - but here you also get what seem like intelligent people perfectly capable of debating and constructing an argument etc, yet with no ability to recognise that other people are also entitled to an opinion that may be different to their own, it's very strange. Perhaps it's just driven by how strongly those people feel, I don't know. :/

Anyway, waffling over, my point is that fans may have different ambitions, and should be allowed to express them without threat of being 'hounded out'. Debate, argue, whatever, but please don't hound people out or deliberately hijack threads to take away their voice - maybe I'm naive, but at the end of the day I truly believe 99.9% on here want the best for Spurs (they just have very different views on what that realistically is or how best to achieve it).
 
That may or may not be the case, but I'm still very uncomfortable (as are many people) with 'hounding out' those people because in your opinion they are not Spurs fans or football fans.

I very much doubt anyone joined this forum because they were fans of ENIC - I suspect 99.9% joined because they consider themselves Spurs fans (the other 0.1% being fans of particular players or managers who happen to be at Spurs). The way those 99.9% see things may not be the same as you see things, but it doesn't mean they're not fans - it may be (for example) that they have less ambition than you. (If you think about it, most clubs will never win anything, most fans just accept that, rightly or wrongly - that's doesn't mean they're not fans, just that they are realistic / unambitious (depending on your preferred interpretation)).

It seems to be a real problem on this forum for people to accept that other fans think differently to them. I know you get it on all forums, but normally only from the idiots who shout and bully, and of course that's true here too - but here you also get what seem like intelligent people perfectly capable of debating and constructing an argument etc, yet with no ability to recognise that other people are also entitled to an opinion that may be different to their own, it's very strange. Perhaps it's just driven by how strongly those people feel, I don't know. :/

Anyway, waffling over, my point is that fans may have different ambitions, and should be allowed to express them without threat of being 'hounded out'. Debate, argue, whatever, but please don't hound people out or deliberately hijack threads to take away their voice - maybe I'm naive, but at the end of the day I truly believe 99.9% on here want the best for Spurs (they just have very different views on what that realistically is or how best to achieve it).
You underestimate how many people are here to troll.
Trolls need to go.
 
You underestimate how many people are here to troll.
Trolls need to go.
Perhaps you're right. I suspect that actually most or all of the people you're talking about are just people who consistently offer an opposite opinion about ENIC, and consequently I expect they would probably say many of the ENIC OUT crowd are equally 'trolling'. But I can't be certain. I've certainly seen a few trolls on other topics - people who seem to deliberately take up contrary positions to annoy people, without actually believing in those opinions, and for me those people are just a nuisance and of no use to the forum (in my humble opinion of course) - but I've not seen many of those in the ENIC-related conversations I've read - just people who clearly genuinely feel strongly on either side (and hence interpret data differently to suit their cause (again at both ends of the spectrum)). But perhaps I've missed some - I'm not on here anywhere near as much as some people.

We mustn't mistake the two though - trolls are just being deliberately difficult to annoy people, wherea 'non-trolls' (is that a word? :) ) are posting, perhaps a lot and perhaps not always respectfully, on either side - but are posting about things they genuinely feel strongly about, and hence have a right to do so.
 
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Perhaps you're right. I suspect that actually most or all of the people you're talking about are just people who consistently offer an opposite opinion about ENIC, and consequently I expect they would probably say many of the ENIC OUT crowd are equally 'trolling'. But I can't be certain. I've certainly seen a few trolls on other topics - people who seem to deliberately take up contrary positions to annoy people, without actually believing in those opinions, and for me those people are just a nuisance and of no use to the forum (in my humble opinion of course) - but I've not seen many of those in the ENIC-related conversations I've read - just people who clearly genuinely feel strongly on either side (and hence interpret data differently to suit their cause (again at both ends of the spectrum)). But perhaps I've missed some - I'm not on here anywhere near as much as some people.

We mustn't mistake the two though - trolls are just being deliberately difficult to annoy people, wherea 'non-trolls' (is that a word? :) ) are posting, perhaps a lot and perhaps not always respectfully, on either side - but are posting about things they genuinely feel strongly about, and hence have a right to do so.
I like to think I'm reasonable and level headed.
I'm totally calm about January and Conte. January is what it is. There are some fans who act like little cry babies because Spurs aren't signing all the best players in the world on Jan 1st. But at least you know they want what's best on the pitch.

It's the summer windows where ENIC need to be judged and for me, this summer is make or break for them. If they fuck this one up, they need to go. Any fans who say otherwise are disturbed.
 
I like to think I'm reasonable and level headed.
I'm totally calm about January and Conte. January is what it is. There are some fans who act like little cry babies because Spurs aren't signing all the best players in the world on Jan 1st. But at least you know they want what's best on the pitch.

It's the summer windows where ENIC need to be judged and for me, this summer is make or break for them. If they fuck this one up, they need to go. Any fans who say otherwise are disturbed.
I like most of that post - just 2 things I'd comment on:

RE: "they want what's best on the pitch" - I still believe that 99.9% of people on here do want what's best on the pitch. I'm sure they joined this forum for football reasons, and would love us to win trophies etc. They may just be more reserved in what they think is realistically achievable, hence less ambitious, hence more 'patient' with the board than you are.

Also, I think that 'fucking this one up' and 'needing to go' will necessarily remain subjective. Some people will be happy with our summer window if we buy or sell a single player, others won't be happy unless we sell 10 and buy 10, and everything in between. Certainly I'd agree with you that if the squad isn't strengthened significantly by the end of the summer then the knives will be out from far more people than is the case now, and anyone who disagrees will at least surely understand why others are angry (arguable whether I'd call that 'disturbed', perhaps 'ludicrously and unreasonably patient' would suffice, but precise terminology aside I think I grasp and agree with your sentiment).

PS 'Reasonable and level headed' does not normally include 'hounding out' people with a different opinion, but perhaps I took that too literally, perhaps you more meant 'calling out', challenging etc?
 
We mustn't mistake the two though - trolls are just being deliberately difficult to annoy people, wherea 'non-trolls' (is that a word? :) ) are posting, perhaps a lot and perhaps not always respectfully, on either side - but are posting about things they genuinely feel strongly about, and hence have a right to do so.
If someone says ' my chairman 💪 ' for someone who has been so terrible for us since many years now and not mean it as a joke, they are 100% trolling.
 
Magnificent!!
bqceltgrr9bzhf8rb3y5


Get into my end zone!! Touch it down!!!
Yee Haa, four and down, huh, huh! all on this play... Throw the ball ten yards, catch the ball and you are champions of the world.

Load of fucking bollocks
 
If someone says ' my chairman 💪 ' for someone who has been so terrible for us since many years now and not mean it as a joke, they are 100% trolling.
I agree on both sides - if someone pro-ENIC is using that to wind people up, then that's trolling. Equally if people on the anti-ENIC side are using it sarcastically to wind up pro-ENIC people, then that's trolling too. I've seen much more of the latter than the former I have to say.

Again, you need to remember, what you consider to be 'terrible for us' might not be considered as such by other people, who might (purely as a lazy example here) look at regular CL football in the last 10 or so years as a reasonable success. (It's not my intention to debate that here - my point is that your definition of 'terrible' might be different to that of the next guy, and them disagreeing with you isn't necessarily trolling, it may well mean that person just has a different opinion to you).
 
Again, you need to remember, what you consider to be 'terrible for us' might not be considered as such by other people, who might (purely as a lazy example here) look at regular CL football in the last 10 or so years as a reasonable success. (It's not my intention to debate that here - my point is that your definition of 'terrible' might be different to that of the next guy, and them disagreeing with you isn't necessarily trolling, it may well mean that person just has a different opinion to you).
I dont think anyone denies (or should deny) that we had improved (overall) upto the 17-18 with a few ups and downs in between. But since the infamous 'theres just no one available to improve us, so we didnt buy anyone' moment, its just been one crap decision after another from levy/enic. Since then its been a terrible 4 years from him.
 
I dont think anyone denies (or should deny) that we had improved (overall) upto the 17-18 with a few ups and downs in between. But since the infamous 'theres just no one available to improve us, so we didnt buy anyone' moment, its just been one crap decision after another from levy/enic. Since then its been a terrible 4 years from him.
As I say, I wasn't intending to discuss that here, as it's been covered hundreds of times on other threads. It's an opinion that I personally have a lot of sympathy / agreement with, and that of course you are absolutely entitled to hold and to share. But anyone who thinks differently is entitled to their opinion too, that's my point.

Let's say for the sake of argument that someone agreed with you above, but thought "hmmm, the previous 10 years was reasonably good, the last 4 not so good, I say give them another 2 years and see if they improve it again" or "our transfer market activity has been terrible in recent years but the stadium is great and tbh if players like N'Dombele improved their attitude we'd be in a much better position on the pitch too". Or whatever - the precise argument, nomatter how stupid it might seem to you, is pretty much irrelevant - my point is simply that everyone can have a different opinion, and has no less right than anyone else to share it on this forum without people calling them trolls, bots, or suggesting that they are basically rounded up and removed, unless their sole intention is to spoil the forum - and I absolutely don't see that here, I'm confident that the extremists on both sides genuinely believe in what they are saying and just want to promote it.

We should all be mature enough to understand and respect that others can have different opinions to our own.
 

John Thomas

Former serial trophy winners
That's probably partly because this thread has been turned into yet another ENIC OUT thread - and whilst one is desirable / necessary for people to voice their opinions at that end of the spectrum, more than one surely isn't either necessary or desirable. But for those enjoying it here too, fill your boots! :)
I absolutely bumped it especially for you guys. Then not one of you showed any gratitude and came to the party!
 
John Thomas John Thomas As I say, I don't think anybody on either side should be using it routinely purely to wind other people up, but Shadydan Shadydan is definitely a poster who make the effort to engage and explain his views etc, surely no one on here would class him as a troll who is only here to annoy people - I'd be genuinely amazed if anyone who has engaged with him thinks that. You might not agree with him, but at least he properly engages - there are many posters who don't even try to explain themselves, but just abuse others.

Anyway we're drifting from the point of the conversation here - which was about allowing people to hold and share their opinions even where they disagree with your own - we'd have much more chance of finding some middle ground or having genuinely useful discussion if people could start by accepting that. :)
 

John Thomas

Former serial trophy winners
As I say, I don't think anybody on either side should be using it routinely purely to wind other people up, but Shadydan Shadydan is definitely a poster who make the effort to engage and explain his views etc, surely no one on here would class him as a troll who is only here to annoy people -
He said he enjoys seeing Spurs not signing any plays because he gets hard seeing our fans getting wound up.

If it sounds like a troll and smells like troll ??
 
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