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Management The positivity thread: evAngelists only

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Richard Arlison said:
Out of curiousity, based on your logic, getting to the League Cup Semi-Final after getting past the CL holders City, United and then even winning the home leg against Pl winners Liverpool... that would be a bigger success than winning the Europa League?
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The league cup is harder to win than the Europa league 100%. You play much better teams to win it.

It’s diminished by the fact teams treat it as the FA cups little brother. You see youth players tried out and second string squads as a result. And the rewards are rubbish.

The EL also wildly varies in strength. Atalanta vs Leverkusen was a genuinely quality final with two good teams. Another year fucking Rangers are in the final FFS.

It’s weak. None of the teams left in it are remotely top 4 prem quality. Frankfurt aren’t better than Fulham.
 
Richard Arlison said:
The club will not be sacking the most successful coach in the Premier League era.
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It's the irony of it all isn't it. For 16 long years there's been discontent amongst Spurs fans at the lack of trophies.

All the jokes about the new addition to the Spurs trophy room being a carpet etc.

Then....we could finally win that elusive trophy, and fans are calling for the sack.....it doesn't get any more Spursy than that!
 
PerthPaul said:
It's the irony of it all isn't it. For 16 long years there's been discontent amongst Spurs fans at the lack of trophies.

All the jokes about the new addition to the Spurs trophy room being a carpet etc.

Then....we could finally win that elusive trophy, and fans are calling for the sack.....it doesn't get any more Spursy than that!
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It’s really not that deep. Any clubs fans would be saying a manager who navigated a generally top 6 club to being possibly 17th should probably get the sack regardless of a cup win.

The league is your bread and butter, your week in week out monitor of progress against your domestic peers with similar resources.

EL would be great and all but winning it wouldn’t change how awful we’ve looked for an entire season, it’s just a comfier ride than the premier league is. We’ve found comfort in it all season for this reason.
 
Deuterz said:
It’s really not that deep. Any clubs fans would be saying a manager who navigated a generally top 6 club to being possibly 17th should probably get the sack regardless of a cup win.

The league is your bread and butter, your week in week out monitor of progress against your domestic peers with similar resources.

EL would be great and all but winning it wouldn’t change how awful we’ve looked for an entire season, it’s just a comfier ride than the premier league is. We’ve found comfort in it all season for this reason.
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There's so much disparity between Spurs fans, some say being in the race for top 4 means nothing because it's not a trophy. Some say the 'Ropey' league doesn't count because it's poor quality.
Some actually want us to lose the semi-final so Ange goes.
Some want us to throw games to sabotage rivals.
Apparently anyone is better than Ange, but none of the current candidates in the PL are good enough for us.

This club just does not have a winning mentality. From the very top, right down to the fanbase.
So we take what we can get, if we win the EL then we're in the CL and 'hopefully' we can build from there, be it with or without Ange.
 
Deuterz said:
The league cup is harder to win than the Europa league 100%. You play much better teams to win it.

It’s diminished by the fact teams treat it as the FA cups little brother. You see youth players tried out and second string squads as a result. And the rewards are rubbish.

The EL also wildly varies in strength. Atalanta vs Leverkusen was a genuinely quality final with two good teams. Another year fucking Rangers are in the final FFS.

It’s weak. None of the teams left in it are remotely top 4 prem quality. Frankfurt aren’t better than Fulham.
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So, you'd rate that League Cup SF over winning the EL if we managed it?
 
PerthPaul said:
It's the irony of it all isn't it. For 16 long years there's been discontent amongst Spurs fans at the lack of trophies.

All the jokes about the new addition to the Spurs trophy room being a carpet etc.

Then....we could finally win that elusive trophy, and fans are calling for the sack.....it doesn't get any more Spursy than that!
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At this point we haven't won the EL and Ange is very much on the chopping block.

If we win it, it would be madness to sack him and would obviously backfire and just turn a positive into an easy negative narrative around the club and new manager.

If we don't then the club has an easier decision to make most likely. A lot would still depend on information that we don't get to know as fans.
 
PerthPaul said:
There's so much disparity between Spurs fans, some say being in the race for top 4 means nothing because it's not a trophy. Some say the 'Ropey' league doesn't count because it's poor quality.
Some actually want us to lose the semi-final so Ange goes.
Some want us to throw games to sabotage rivals.
Apparently anyone is better than Ange, but none of the current candidates in the PL are good enough for us.

This club just does not have a winning mentality. From the very top, right down to the fanbase.
So we take what we can get, if we win the EL then we're in the CL and 'hopefully' we can build from there, be it with or without Ange.
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Of course it counts. Winning the Europa league would be awesome.

I’d still be Ange out because I know poor managers can fluke cups, especially when the calibre of opposition happens to be lower.

It wouldn’t make the cup any less enjoyable.
 
Richard Arlison said:
At this point we haven't won the EL and Ange is very much on the chopping block.

If we win it, it would be madness to sack him and would obviously backfire and just turn a positive into an easy negative narrative around the club and new manager.

If we don't then the club has an easier decision to make most likely. A lot would still depend on information that we don't get to know as fans.
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If we keep him we’re just gonna end up sacking him mid season like United did with Ten Haag. The fans have lost patience with him regardless of a cup and at the first sign of bad form next season it’ll spiral again.

He’s done as a coach. Could win a cup, could not. Either way sack him.
 
PerthPaul said:
There's so much disparity between Spurs fans, some say being in the race for top 4 means nothing because it's not a trophy. Some say the 'Ropey' league doesn't count because it's poor quality.
Some actually want us to lose the semi-final so Ange goes.
Some want us to throw games to sabotage rivals.
Apparently anyone is better than Ange, but none of the current candidates in the PL are good enough for us.

This club just does not have a winning mentality. From the very top, right down to the fanbase.
So we take what we can get, if we win the EL then we're in the CL and 'hopefully' we can build from there, be it with or without Ange.
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And some also want to sack our top scorer and our captain as well.
They are not all locked up.
 
Richard Arlison said:
So, you'd rate that League Cup SF over winning the EL if we managed it?
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I wouldn’t rate it ‘over’ the EL in terms of enjoyment but yes the results we achieved in the league cup were more impressive than the results we’ve achieved in the EL.

Anyone would rather win than not win, but in terms of challenge the league cup is different. There isn’t a team in the EL who can wash us away like Liverpool did at Anfield. That’s why we have a shot at winning it.
 
Deuterz said:
I wouldn’t rate it ‘over’ the EL in terms of enjoyment but yes the results we achieved in the league cup were more impressive than the results we’ve achieved in the EL.

Anyone would rather win than not win, but in terms of challenge the league cup is different. There isn’t a team in the EL who can wash us away like Liverpool did at Anfield. That’s why we have a shot at winning it.
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So, winning the EL would be a bigger success than reaching the LC SF?
 
Richard Arlison said:
Entitled to your opinion but you realize there is no way he gets sacked if we win the EL?
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Uh, maybe not. It’ll happen mid season (or early season) next season though when the league results don’t perk up.

He’s done lmao. The board may well be too scared of the bad optics of sacking him after a cup win but their faith and the faith of the fans is gone and the fraud will be fucked off so quickly next season when he continues to be out of his depth at PL level.
 
Deuterz said:
Uh, maybe not. It’ll happen mid season (or early season) next season though when the league results don’t perk up.

He’s done lmao. The board may well be too scared of the bad optics of sacking him after a cup win but their faith and the faith of the fans is gone and the fraud will be fucked off so quickly next season when he continues to be out of his depth at PL level.
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Tbh the way that all the candidates in the PL have fallen off probably vindicates the board's decision to wait until the end of the season. I think clubs are looking at the expense and success of mid-season manager changes and seeing that the trend is now headed away from doing them.

The summer is probably the most logical time to make decisions.
 
Richard Arlison said:
Entitled to your opinion but you realize there is no way he gets sacked if we win the EL?
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It would actually be an embarrassment. If I'm honest I don't want another season with Ange, unless big tactical changes are made.

But if he were to win that trophy, and Levy sacked him, what kind of message is that to future managers?

You can win the first trophy in 17 years, the first European trophy in 41 years, and then still not keep your job!
 
Richard Arlison said:
So, winning the EL would be a bigger success than reaching the LC SF?
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It would be more enjoyable but easier. Although it’s hard to quantify as the league cup is a B tier domestic cup too. City didn’t bring their A game.

But we did beat a full strength United, who are in the semi finals of the Europa league (despite them & Amorim being terrible, they epitomise how little cup results reflect an overall picture).

Us vs United would be a great shit off final between two coaches doing abysmally domestically and finding solace in getting past the Sociedads, Lyon’s and Frankfurt’s.
 
Deuterz said:
It would be more enjoyable but easier. Although it’s hard to quantify as the league cup is a B tier domestic cup too. City didn’t bring their A game.

But we did beat a full strength United, who are in the semi finals of the Europa league (despite them & Amorim being terrible, they epitomise how little cup results reflect an overall picture).

Us vs United would be a great shit off final between two coaches doing abysmally domestically and finding solace in getting past the Sociedads, Lyon’s and Frankfurt’s.
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So, EL would be a bigger success then. Cool, we are agreed.

At the end of the day, sport is about winning. You can get moral victories from playing well and achieving good league finishes but it's not real success unless you actually win something.
 
But the fans have been screaming for Levy's head for years because we're only finishing 2-6 place and not winning trophies.

So an acceptable level is to finish top 4 and win a trophy almost every year. We're way off that level, and prospective managers will know that. It's not a coincidence that Levy changes managers like his underwear.

I agree that 17th is way off where we should be, but I also believe that unrealistic expectations from fans puts pressure on Levy to keep chopping and changing, and then we lack any kind of consistency.

Also, calling it the Ropey league is just an idiocy in my eyes. For years fans having been crying out for trophies, now they're taking the piss out of one we might win because its not good enough for the mighty Spurs. Look at our record though.....we're not that mighty!

We should want to win every competition, and take them seriously too. Imagine if Ange said at the start of the season that he's not taking the EL seriously because its a weak competition. Everyone would be screaming for his head. Now because we're at the pointy end, and because there's an anti Ange agenda, it's an easy trophy to win.
 
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