The race for second place.

[78Spur]

He’s got us competing after years in the wilderness - give the guy a break - and don’t forget that Poch has a boss - he’s the one who does the prioritising. Poch is just the hired hand.

Also no CL in Keith’s day. If there was maybe things would have been different. It’s daft to compare football back then to now.

This is true - in Keith Burkinshaw's time, there weren't oil clubs, the revenues and who you could buy were completely different, arguably after the English clubs were allowed back in to Europe and the growth of the Champions League and Premier League the whole focus has changed.

To say 'it's all about silverware' is a little bit deceptive, we're in 4 competitions and the only one we have a realistic chance of winning is the FA Cup, even then we still have the likes of City, Chelsea and United, who have resources that genuinely dwarf our own. So if Poch does achieve that he does deserve the 'miracle worker' label.

But I would look at Woolwich, their cup wins have been paper over the cracks of their long term decay, you ask their fans if they would prefer an FA Cup or being in the Champions League and you know what they'll answer.

Burkinshaw was a great Manager but that was over 30 years ago.

 

[Paul G]

He was good yes but didn’t come close to winning league title like Poch

Good call though and I enjoyed watching us then

The 82 team would have been closer had it not been for the cup runs. League cup final, cup winners cup semi (where Barca kicked us to shreds), and FA cup final. They were running on empty towards the end of the season, with a much smaller squad, and only one sub then.

 

[Ossie Wembley]

If you want to sign quality players and keep quality players you need to pay the wages today.
Unless you are Man U,Barca, Real or are bankrolled by Arab states like PSG and City then Consistent CL qualification is more important than domestic trophies.
That’s the only way
Like it or not it brings global recognition and raises the profile.
That’s how it is today.
Then we can command more sponsorship, more TV revenue and increase or global commercial revenue ( along with improved matchday income )
I don’t think Woolwich were pleased with last year, despite a domestic trophy. Another year out of the CL will kill them.
I actually think that if not for the famous lasagne they may have fucked themselves not having CL that season when they desperately needed it what with the stadium build debt.
It may have been a whole different story.
As it was they have topped us by about £100m per year and had CL every season except last.
I think they’ve won 3 FA Cups since then and I doubt thats the sole reason the money kept coming in,

Like I said if Woolwich had finished 6th since 2006 but won the 3 FA cups, do you think they would be as monied as they are now?
How many teams outside of the top 4( including before Man City took Liverpools spot) have won the FA cup in the PL era?
3 since 1992.

Woolwich have the highest matchday revenue in world football. They have a global fanbase because they were one of the leagues most successful sides when it was breaking into other markets. If you honestly believe that another year outside of the CL will kill them then you are living in absolute fantasy land. They are rumoured to have agreed a new kit deal double to their last ( and double that of ours) and even without that revenue stream they will still generate more revenues than us with CL football. Should we fail to qualify this year it won’t kill us, we won’t collapse so the notion that the likes of Woolwich and Liverpool will is just absurd. As for the FA Cup , well if it wasn’t for those wins then it is highly unlikely that Wenger would still be in a job. They have almost certainly saved him.

 

[Joe Clash]

Years in the wilderness? The decline came to an end in 2004, he have had consistent top 5 finishes since then and 2 top finishes prior to him joining. Give the guy a break?! I’m virtually the only supporter who offers any semblemce of criticism towards him. He shouldn’t be given a free pass, pressure and demands should be placed on him, we have the most talented Spurs side in a generation and it hasn’t won anything. And you cannot lay this on Levy, Poch made his views of the UEFA cup public whilst at Southampton, he also did with the same with FA Cup as the Sunderland game attests.

And the CL was around in Burkinshaw’s just like their was a league before the PL. You can keep on saying things have changed and no doubt when another decade goes by without silverware you will still be stating the same. If you believe that securing addtional revenues is still the key then you haven’t been paying attention. As we saw the Deloitte Report this week the gap between us and the elite is widening and that’s even with us securing CL football.

Best league finish since Nicholson, and there was no CL back then, just the European Cup which we never got close to playing in under Burkinshaw.

You are in danger of making your namesake The Hood’s mistakes. Refusing to move with the times, living off past glories, and ending up being blown out of the water by a more powerful, and more modern battleship. And if the Deloitte report is to be believed, haven’t we closed the gap on Chelsea and and Liverpool? Me? I’m not bothered. My support for Tottenham is unconditional.

 

[Ossie Wembley]

Best league finish since Nicholson, and there was no CL back then, just the European Cup which we never got close to playing in under Burkinshaw.

You are in danger of making your namesake The Hood’s mistakes. Refusing to move with the times, living off past glories, and ending up being blown out of the water by a more powerful, and more modern battleship. And if the Deloitte report is to be believed, haven’t we closed the gap on Chelsea and and Liverpool? Me? I’m not bothered. My support for Tottenham is unconditional.

So what? We finished 3rd under Venables tenure and virtually no one remembers or cares. Liverpool finished 2nd in the 09 and 14 seasons and if you heard any of their supporters trying to herald this as achievement you would laugh at them.

I’m acutely aware of where the game has gone, the money men’s focus will always lie there. What is a truly bizzare phenomen is why so many supporters have gone with them on this. The fact that someone in this thread can say that CL football is more important that domestic trophies is ample demonstration of that. The reasoning is presented for this is the biggest falsehood going and yet It continues to be peddled. It does make me wonder when the penny will finally drop, these so called vital revenue streams do not take us to this promised land. Oh and as for the Hood that just a lucky shot.

 

[Boltonspur]

Pat Jennings is a match day Ambassador.. He is the Goalie host.
Here all week.

You keep saying that. Every fucking week.

Spoiler

:dierpochhug:

 

[Joe Clash]

So what? We finished 3rd under Venables tenure and virtually no one remembers or cares. Liverpool finished 2nd in the 09 and 14 seasons and if you heard any of their supporters trying to herald this as achievement you would laugh at them.

I’m acutely aware of where the game has gone, the money men’s focus will always lie there. What is a truly bizzare phenomen is why so many supporters have gone with them on this. The fact that someone i this thread can say that CL football is more important that domestic trophies is ample demonstration of that. The reasoning is presented for this is the biggest falsehood going and yet It continues to be peddled. It does make me wonder when the penny will finally drop, these so called vital revenue streams do not take us to this promised land.

And we go round and round in circles. This is not my personal opinion, but CL qualification is more important to professional football clubs than domestic trophies these days.Your standpoint is touchingly romantic, but in Burkinshaw’s era an FA Cup win coupled with a league finish of, say 12th would have been viewed as a successful season. In 2018 it will get you sacked.

You and I have gone around the houses with this one. You’re not going to change my mind and I’m certainly not going to change yours, but some friendly advice - don’t try to live in the past. It never works out well.

 

[Joe Clash]

Oh and as for the Hood that just a lucky shot.

From 13 miles away? You make your own luck with tragic circumstances for those brave seamen.

 

[Ossie Wembley]

From 13 miles away? You make your own luck tragically for those brave seamen.

They hit the weakest part of the ship and found a magazine aft in the process. Extremely unlucky but the same bad luck befell Bismarck as well.

 

[78Spur]

So what? We finished 3rd under Venables tenure and virtually no one remembers or cares. Liverpool finished 2nd in the 09 and 14 seasons and if you heard any of their supporters trying to herald this as achievement you would laugh at them.

I’m acutely aware of where the game has gone, the money men’s focus will always lie there. What is a truly bizzare phenomen is why so many supporters have gone with them on this. The fact that someone in this thread can say that CL football is more important that domestic trophies is ample demonstration of that. The reasoning is presented for this is the biggest falsehood going and yet It continues to be peddled. It does make me wonder when the penny will finally drop, these so called vital revenue streams do not take us to this promised land. Oh and as for the Hood that just a lucky shot.

There is a key point here, when Terry Venables finished 3rd, things were not the same, the 'top 4' didn't exist as a concept of success or even a delusion.

Let's accept your premise, the fans have been taken for a ride and being top 4 does not really mean anything. If we win the FA Cup, we will celebrate and it will be a major achievement, but it does not mean that we will get to play Real Madrid next season.

It's an odd one because I don't want to argue against winning silverware, because that's insane too.But I think if you were to poll our fans, would you take top 4 and nothing else or the FA Cup but no Champions League I think it would just about go the way of top 4, 10 years ago I am absolutely sure we'd say FA Cup every day. I am not sure if that's right but I think that's the way things are moving.

 

[Joe Clash]

They hit the weakest part of the ship and found a magazine aft in the process. Extremely unlucky but the same bad luck befell Bismarck as well.

We’ve found some common ground mate. God bless the Hood and all who sailed with her. :dierpochhug:

 

[Ossie Wembley]

There is a key point here, when Terry Venables finished 3rd, things were not the same, the 'top 4' didn't exist as a concept of success or even a delusion.

Let's accept your premise, the fans have been taken for a ride and being top 4 does not really mean anything. If we win the FA Cup, we will celebrate and it will be a major achievement, but it does not mean that we will get to play Real Madrid next season.

It's an odd one because I don't want to argue against winning silverware, because that's insane too.But I think if you were to poll our fans, would you take top 4 and nothing else or the FA Cup but no Champions League I think it would just about go the way of top 4, 10 years ago I am absolutely sure we'd say FA Cup every day. I am not sure if that's right but I think that's the way things are moving.

So fucking what? Do you know how small time that sounds? That’s like hearing a conference side waxing lyrical about being drawn against a PL side in the FA Cup. Do we really want to become the glorified version of that were our season is defined by which elite side we are drawn against? Really? The CL means nothing is in effect, it doesn’t enable us to retain our best players, it doesn’t enable sign the games best. It isn’t a gateway to the elite and never will be.

 

[Fidel Castro]

You are in danger of making your namesake The Hood’s mistakes. Refusing to move with the times, living off past glories, and ending up being blown out of the water by a more powerful, and more modern battleship. And if the Deloitte report is to be believed, haven’t we closed the gap on Chelsea and and Liverpool? Me? I’m not bothered. My support for Tottenham is unconditional.

The Hood was not a battleship but a battlecruiser. Built for speed and yes was outclassed by the modern Bismarck. With far less armour and a 1920s design.
"Moving with times" is not always relevant as it was the antiquated Swordfish biplanes that attacked the Bismarck with their torpedoes and damaged it's steering and reduced its speed. Leaving it a floating modern death trap with the Royal Navy destroying it .
This lead to the remaining German surface fleet very rarely leaving port .

 

[Joe Clash]

Really? The CL means nothing is in effect, it doesn’t enable us to retain our best players, it doesn’t enable sign the games best. It isn’t a gateway to the elite and never will be.

It is exactly the gateway to the elite - it is literally that. Rather than have a competition with the Icelandic and Finnish champions competing as equals, you have the 4 best teams in the very best leagues. It’s like the old UEFA cup, but with the actual champions playing. Not just 2nd down to 4th. It’s the pinnacle of European club competition, and here we are in the last 16 of the elite clubs.

 

[78Spur]

So fucking what? Do you know how small time that sounds? That’s like hearing a conference side waxing lyrical about being drawn against a PL side in the FA Cup. Do we really want to become the glorified version of that were our season is defined by which elite side we are drawn against? Really? The CL means nothing is in effect, it doesn’t enable us to retain our best players, it doesn’t enable sign the games best. It isn’t a gateway to the elite and never will be.

So what's your point? I can see why you hate that mentality, so what do you want instead?

 

[Joe Clash]

The Hood was not a battleship but a battlecruiser. Built for speed and yes was outclassed by the modern Bismarck. With far less armour and a 1920s design.
"Moving with times" is not always relevant as it was the antiquated Swordfish biplanes that attacked the Bismarck with their torpedoes and damaged it's steering and reduced its speed. Leaving it a floating modern death trap with the Royal Navy destroying it .
This lead to the remaining German surface fleet very rarely leaving port .

I know what it was Fidel. And if you’d read my post you’d see i didn’t refer to it as a battleship. Just the Mighty Hood. The Bismarck was a battleship.

 

[Ossie Wembley]

So what's your point? I can see why you hate that mentality, so what do you want instead?

To make the trophies we can win a priority and not an afterthought. Take the UEFA cup for example, we are been in that tournament on numerous occasions in the last 14 years and yet have never got part the quarter final stage despite being often the richest club in the tournament. Sevilla, whose resources pale in comparison to us have won 5 in the last 12 years, that simply isn’t acceptable. When an average United side can win a FA Cup, League cup and UEFA cup whilst a at best decent Woolwich side can win 3 FA cups (and potentially a league cup as well now) whilst the best Spurs side on a generation wins nothing then something has to change in our strategy.

 

[Joe Clash]

This is great. Discussing the unfortunate demise of the Hood with the Hood and Fidel Castro. You don’t get this on SC (or so I’m told).

 

[Fidel Castro]

Jutland , tactical defeat but strategic victory .

 

[Ossie Wembley]

It is exactly the gateway to the elite - it is literally that. Rather than have a competition with the Icelandic and Finnish champions competing as equals, you have the 4 best teams in the very best leagues. It’s like the old UEFA cup, but with the actual champions playing. Not just 2nd down to 4th. It’s the pinnacle of European club competition, and here we are in the last 16 of the elite clubs.

No a gateway to join the elite, that it puts us on a par with those clubs. It doesn’t and never will, the likes of Dortmund and A Madrid attest to that. If any tier 2 club shows any modicum of success in that platform then the elite will asset strip them. It has happened to us before and it will happen again but we simply do not and will not posses the capacity to prevent this from happening. The CL is there for the elite, it’s simply UEFAs vehicle to placate them, the rest are their to make up the numbers.