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Manager The Sack Race

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John Duncan said:
Indeed ; stuck with him ( despite everything) and look how things turned out . Then probably the best thing for all parties happened.

And luckily Ange wasn’t out of work for long .
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There's always another club to ruin

Sport Wow GIF by Celtic Football Club
 
Among the prevalent but misguided notions here, this one that we sack managers too easy too soon has to be the one.
  • We let Redknapp finish the season even though he had made his interest in another job clear a few months prior, and oversaw a sharp drop in form in the second half of that season that was as bad as Pochettino's collapse in 18/19.
  • AVB got nearly half of the 13/14 season despite serving one of the dullest footballs a manager has ever served here in the recent history.
  • Pochettino was allowed to oversee bottom half form for almost the entirety of 2019: 40 points from 30 league games.
  • Mourinho hung around for another month after the Zagreb debacle among others.
  • Nuno is the only one that was given the axe swiftly.
  • Conte effectively resigned, so doesn't belong in to this discussion.
  • We gave 2 full seasons to a manager that Forest could only stand for 39 days,15 of which were spent in international break.
Seriously, where does this myth stem from? Because it's certainly not grounded in reality.
 
CJJ said:
TBF, we didn't sack Conte; we just didn't support a WFH policy for the manager's role.
(we all know that - Chuck Norris style - you never sack Conte; Conte sacks you).

It's only really Nuno that has had the premature trigger pulled.
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Despite ( or rather because of ) his intense yet brilliant ( at times ) madness ; all in all I reckon we were lucky to have had Conte . Things were always going to end badly .

Like an irrational holiday romance with Sophia Loren or Monica Belluci ; there was always a Ryanair flight to be caught back from Rimini to Stanstead Airport .

It was fun at times , always intense yet ultimately unsustainable in the real world .
 
Considering that we haven't really had a Ferguson, Wenger, Klopp, Guardiola etc. of our own in the modern era, the amount of support managers still get here is astounding.

No I'm not talking about growing fond of a specific manager because the way he presents himself resonates with you on a personal level or whatever. I'm talking about this near venerating attitude towards the managerial role as an institution; one that leads numerous people to choose whatever manager we have at the helm at a given point as their hill to die on.

If you think about it, some of the most popular shouts of the transfer and manager threads reflect this curious mindset outlined above:
  • Back the manager - Implied here is the twisted notion that the club with all its resources is here to serve the manager and not the other way around. Who's the employer and who's the employee here exactly?
  • We can't keep sacking managers-Sure we can,just as the way we keep sacking head physios or set piece coaches and live just fine.Managers are just another employee of the club that we don't owe anything beyond contractual obligations.
  • Don't want to start all over again by sacking another manager- Again, implication here is that manager is the foundation of the club around whom everything else revolves. Instead of being seen as another highly replaceable employee,he is being treated as that one piece of Jenga that keeps the whole structure together.
  • These group of players have seen x number of managers getting sacked, therefore they must be the issue- It is quite possible, indeed likely, that those who are recruiting these disliked players are also not doing a great job at identifying quality managers. It's not an either-or situation.
  • Managers need x number of windows and y number of full seasons before we can start asking questions- Again, managers are treated as these exceptional people to whom normal procedures don't apply. Nobody offers this sort of leeway to players, DOFs or the tea lady. But managers are a different breed apparently.
I could go on but the point is clear here.

This sort of unwavering support managers receive, taken to its extreme, leads to situations like last year. And no, those who were backing the manager despite us hitting new lows hadn't already seen us win the EL in their crystal ball. They were doing it just because.
 
BJK said:
Considering that we haven't really had a Ferguson, Wenger, Klopp, Guardiola etc. of our own in the modern era, the amount of support managers still get here is astounding.

No I'm not talking about growing fond of a specific manager because the way he presents himself resonates with you on a personal level or whatever. I'm talking about this near venerating attitude towards the managerial role as an institution; one that leads numerous people to choose whatever manager we have at the helm at a given point as their hill to die on.

If you think about it, some of the most popular shouts of the transfer and manager threads reflect this curious mindset outlined above:
  • Back the manager - Implied here is the twisted notion that the club with all its resources is here to serve the manager and not the other way around. Who's the employer and who's the employee here exactly?
  • We can't keep sacking managers-Sure we can,just as the way we keep sacking head physios or set piece coaches and live just fine.Managers are just another employee of the club that we don't owe anything beyond contractual obligations.
  • Don't want to start all over again by sacking another manager- Again, implication here is that manager is the foundation of the club around whom everything else revolves. Instead of being seen as another highly replaceable employee,he is being treated as that one piece of Jenga that keeps the whole structure together.
  • These group of players have seen x number of managers getting sacked, therefore they must be the issue- It is quite possible, indeed likely, that those who are recruiting these disliked players are also not doing a great job at identifying quality managers. It's not an either-or situation.
  • Managers need x number of windows and y number of full seasons before we can start asking questions- Again, managers are treated as these exceptional people to whom normal procedures don't apply. Nobody offers this sort of leeway to players, DOFs or the tea lady. But managers are a different breed apparently.
I could go on but the point is clear here.

This sort of unwavering support managers receive, taken to its extreme, leads to situations like last year. And no, those who were backing the manager despite us hitting new lows hadn't already seen us win the EL in their crystal ball. They were doing it just because.
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I think people are hoping for some kind of contunity in regards to our playing style ethos etc

We just go from one extreme style of play to another one. If we had a structure behind the manager that would ensure that we stick to some kind of principles and playing style from academy through to the first team a change of manager wouldnt have such visible drastic effects.

I agree with all your points.
But Im one of those who just want a manager to stay for a few years and then hopefully get another manager in that has many similaritities with the former manager

At least as long as we dont have a proper structure in the club that holds on to certain kind of football.

I hope you get my point

Also I think alot of players were given alot of patience and time compared to managers.
Other players not.
 
BJK said:
Among the prevalent but misguided notions here, this one that we sack managers too easy too soon has to be the one.
  • We let Redknapp finish the season even though he had made his interest in another job clear a few months prior, and oversaw a sharp drop in form in the second half of that season that was as bad as Pochettino's collapse in 18/19.
  • AVB got nearly half of the 13/14 season despite serving one of the dullest footballs a manager has ever served here in the recent history.
  • Pochettino was allowed to oversee bottom half form for almost the entirety of 2019: 40 points from 30 league games.
  • Mourinho hung around for another month after the Zagreb debacle among others.
  • Nuno is the only one that was given the axe swiftly.
  • Conte effectively resigned, so doesn't belong in to this discussion.
  • We gave 2 full seasons to a manager that Forest could only stand for 39 days,15 of which were spent in international break.
Seriously, where does this myth stem from? Because it's certainly not grounded in reality.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah I don't think we're particularly special in this regard. We've had the 2nd most managers in PL history, but that's largely cos we're one of the only teams that's never been relegated. Most of the other teams that haven't been relegated (basically everyone except Everton) have had some spell of success and dominance so haven't changed managers as much. And Everton had Moyes for like 10 years, which in itself is really unusual.

Truth is, unless you're either pretty successful or have middling/low expectations odds are you're gonna change managers every 1-2 years. And I think that's the reality for most clubs across the football pyramid.
 
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