The sliding doors of Pochettinos reign

[Ossie Wembley]

Yes, because Klopp would not have got the extra players he needed to finish the job. The idea that Poch was the problem is mind blowing.

Klopp didn’t get any extra players last summer or in January and they walked the title. Their squad is completely bare.

I love the notion that our 2016, 2017 and 2018 team wasn’t good enough. Other inferior sides could win multiple trophies, Leciester could win a title but we need more massive money signings apparently.

It’s almost as if people are saying that Pochettino wasn’t quite good enough and needed big money signings to get him over the line. Funny that.

 

[Dr Rocktopus]

 

[Ossie Wembley]

Christ the level of counter is about as good as the current teams. ad hominem ahoy

 

[Tomo]

Klopp didn’t get any extra players last summer or in January and they walked the title. Their squad is completely bare.

I love the notion that our 2016, 2017 and 2018 team wasn’t good enough. Other inferior sides could win multiple trophies, Leciester could win a title but we need more massive money signings apparently.

It’s almost as if people are saying that Pochettino wasn’t quite good enough and needed big money signings to get him over the line. Funny that.

Leicester is a one in a hundred year event predicated on a hit and run system that most other teams didn’t adapt to till it was too late.

As for Liverpool, their squad right now it’s far better than ours. The front 3 alone we have only one comparable and that is Kane.

 

[Dr Rocktopus]

Leicester is a one of 1 in a hundred year event predicated on a hit and run system that most other teams didn’t adapt to till it was too late.

And PEDs.

 

[Ossie Wembley]

Imagine if we signed Sep Van Dee Berg, Minnamo and Adrian when pushing for the title. How can Klopp be ever expected to win a title win those signings? That squad is in desperate need of signings. Origi, Llallana, Shaquri and Rhian Brewster in reserve. You simply cannot win anything win anything with those reserve options.


.......only but they did but someone how that was the case with us.

......we needed major signings in order to avoid Leicester finishing 12 points above us.

lol

 

[Ossie Wembley]

Leicester is a one in a hundred year event predicated on a hit and run system that most other teams didn’t adapt to till it was too late.

As for Liverpool, their squad right now it’s far better than ours. The front 3 alone we have only one comparable and that is Kane.

Leciester got lucky, right oh.

Which squad options are better than ours? Origi?Shaquri? Llanna?Minammo? Brewster? Keita? Lovern? Or any of the other dross they have?

Kane and Son are on a par with Salah and Firmino, their advantage is Mane.

They have a very good starting 11 but nothing else.

We had that for 3 seasons and yet won nothing.

What’s the difference? It is fairly obvious to see

 

[Juno]

It’s a pretty sloppily written article. Antonio Conte and not Jose Mourinho was Chavs Manager when they won the League in 2016/17.

The author doesn’t mention that we picked up 25 points from Pochettino’s last 24 league games, conceded a club record of 7 at home to Bayern Munich and got knocked out of the League Cup by Colchester. There’s not many managers at any club that could survive a prolonged run of form like that over 9 months.

We had a squad good enough to win the League in 2015/16 and 2016/17. It was the perfect storm then as well with the state of flux at all the other Big 6. Pochettino was excellent at developing players and had many positive attributes. He didn’t have the game management skills on the line, the tactical nous or the ruthlessness to win the trophies he should have won with those players.

 

[Tomo]

Leciester got lucky, right oh.

Which squad options are better than ours? Origi?Shaquri? Llanna?Minammo? Brewster? Keita? Lovern? Or any of the other dross they have?

Kane and Son are on a par with Salah and Firmino, their advantage is Mane.

They have a very good starting 11 but nothing else.

We had that for 3 seasons and yet won nothing.

What’s the difference? It is fairly obvious to see

Liverpool where below us until they got probably the best goalkeeper and defender in the world not to mention a magnificent DM in Fabinho.

 

[Ossie Wembley]

Liverpool where below us until they got the probably the best goalkeeper and defender in the world not to mention a magnificent DM in Fabinho.

They sold their best player to get two of those players.

They clearly have been successful in the market - as Neville has said they turned £30 million players into £130 million players.

They have the same model as ours - I don’t understand this belief that this has been as result of their owners spending vast sums.

They couldn’t even beat Chelsea to Werner in the market.

We have gone backwards not because of our spend, we have because our recruitment is a world away from where it was 5 years ago. We have wasted extraordinary sums since then and yet people still think that is the solution.

The DOF model has built a two top sides with little outlay with the last one being good enough to win the games major honours. It didn’t because it’s coach firstly treated trophies like the FA cup, UEFA cup and league cup with disdain and because he didn’t posses the necessary talent to operate at the elite level.

And his record demonstrates that - 11 years in management, 48 year old and 0 trophies to his name.

 

[Juno]

Liverpool where below us until they got probably the best goalkeeper and defender in the world not to mention a magnificent DM in Fabinho.

Acquisitions which were in the main financed by shrewdly investing the top of the market price of £130 million they extracted from the sale of Coutinho.

We spend not far shy of that figure of £130 million in making Davinson Sanchez and Ndombele as the two most expensive signings in our history.

They Picked up Mo Salah for around £30 million. An absolute steal as modern day prices go. We spent nearly £20 million on Vincent Janssen.

Klopp has a good eye for a player and is very canny in the transfer market.

 

[Tomo]

They sold their best player to get two of those players.

They clearly have been successful in the market - as Neville has said they turned £30 million players into £130 million players.

They have the same model as ours - I don’t understand this belief that this has been as result of their owners spending vast sums.

They couldn’t even beat Chelsea to Werner in the market.

We have gone backwards not because of our spend, we have because our recruitment is a world away from where it was 5 years ago. We have wasted extraordinary sums since then and yet people still think that is the solution.

The DOF model has built a two top sides with little outlay with the last one being good enough to win the games major honours. It didn’t because it’s coach firstly treated trophies like the FA cup, UEFA cup and league cup with disdain and because he didn’t posses the necessary talent to operate at the elite level.

And his record demonstrates that - 11 years in management, 48 year old and 0 trophies to his name.

Under Levy Poch’s job was primarily to get top 4 on a tight budget, which he achieved on 4 occasions far out ranking our other managers in the modern era while also coming 2nd and getting a CL final which is well beyond expectation. Prior to that he managed Saints and Espanyol where trophies are never gonna happen.

I do not see the squad he had as something on the level that Liverpool had, it was good but not great as testament just look at what AVB and Sherwood got out of it which had a lot of the same players. Yes Liverpool got lucky with a £130m sale, that’s life but they also can pay much bigger wages than us.

 

[Tomo]

Acquisitions which were in the main financed by shrewdly investing the top of the market price of £130 million they extracted from the sale of Coutinho.

We spend not far shy of that figure of £130 million in making Davinson Sanchez and Ndombele as the two most expensive signings in our history.

They Picked up Mo Salah for around £30 million. An absolute steal as modern day prices go. We spent nearly £20 million on Vincent Janssen.

Klopp has a good eye for a player and is very canny in the transfer market.

He may have but Liverpool also have bigger wages and are a bigger draw the amount of stories of top players who we didn’t pay the money either in fees or wages is seems to be every season from Mane, Bruno Fernandes to Grealish and so on. We are always a player or two short even at our best.

 

[Radical Rei]

It's possible to be both critical of ENIC and Poch, yeah radical concept I know...

 

[Ossie Wembley]

Under Levy Poch’s job was primarily to get top 4 on a tight budget, which he achieved on 4 occasions far out ranking our other managers in the modern era while also coming 2nd and getting a CL final which is well beyond expectation. Prior to that he managed Saints and Espanyol where trophies are never gonna happen.

I do not see the squad he had as something on the level that Liverpool had, it was good but not great as testament just look at what AVB and Sherwood got out of it which had a lot of the same players. Yes Liverpool got lucky with a £130m sale, that’s life but they also can pay much bigger wages than us.

The club put together an elite group of players -Champions league qualification was a minimum expectation with that talent pool. I love this suggestion that as we as we hadn’t done this before this is something that should be lauded. Belgium had done little in international football but using your logic getting to a semi final is an achievement for them despite them have the best talent group in international game.

Klopp managed Mainz and then went to Dortmund ( a club with less resources than us) and won 2 league titles. Simeone had a mixed managerial career prior to joining A Madrid ( less resources than us) but won multiple titles.

The majority of the games most current successful managers over the last two decades have won major honours at clubs similar to us (Mourhino/Porto & Inter, Klopp Dortmund & Liverpool, Benitez Valencia and Liverpool, Simeone A Madrid. Pochettinho is always the odd one out on every metric.

As for having the same talent pool as AVB and Sherwood. Firstly no he didnt which why he just scrapped 5th on the final day in his first season and then had Kane, Ali, Alderwield and Dier whilst Eriksen had settled.

And Liverpool didn’t get lucky - they produced on a recruitment level and on a managerial level. We on the other hand did neither in the last 5 years

 

[Tomo]

The club put together an elite group of players -Champions league qualification was a minimum expectation with that talent pool. I love this suggestion that we as we hadn’t done this before this is something that should lauded. Belgium had done little in international football but using your logic getting to a semi final is an achievement despite them have the best talent group in international game.

Klopp managed Mainz and then went to Dortmund ( a club with less resources than us) and win league 2 titles. Simeone has a mixed managerial career prior to joining A Madrid ( less resources than us) but won multiple titles.

The majority of the games most current successful managers over the last two decades have won major honours at clubs similar to us (Mourhino/Porto & Inter, Klopp Dortmund & Liverpool, Benitez Valencia and Liverpool, Simeone A Madrid. Pochettinho is always the odd one out on every metric.

As for having the same talent pool as AVB and Sherwood. Firstly no he didnt which why he just scrapped 5th on the final day in his first season and had Kane, Ali, Alderwield and Diier whilst Eriksen had settled.

And Liverpool didn’t get lucky - they produced on a recruitment level and on a managerial level. We on the other hand did neither in the last 5 years

Kane and Eriksen where with Sherwood and AVB, Alli was a kid that Poch worked with and who still has flaws in his game, Dier is a reasonable player but a million miles off Fabinho, Toby fair enough that was a good signing. Not a massively different squad in terms of the players who would become key for Poch.

And if we are comparing to Simeone one of the best managers on Earth or was one of them what makes you think he would come here down a level, not to mention his football is boring.

 

[TomHotspur]

If you cannot win a single trophy with a prime Kane, Eriksen, Dembele, Son, Vertonghen, Alderwield, Walker, Lloris and Ali then it doesnt matter who you bring in because it is simply not going to alter things.

When inferior United and Woolwich sides where able to win multiple trophies during that time then it tells you where the real issue was and it wasn’t with the board.

Liverpool have just won the CL and league in the space of 12 months. They have done that with the same model as ours, with a limited squad and haven’t spent large in 2 transfer windows. The difference is that they had Klopp and we had Pochettinho.

Does anyone really believe that had Klopp been in charge of us in 2016 that we would have ended up trophyless? The problem was always Poch

Firstly, “prime Kane, Eriksen, Dembele, Son, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Walker, Lloris and Alli.” What the fuck did any of those players achieve before Pochettino became their manager? What can you possibly base your assumption that these players were good enough to win honours without reinforcements on? Pure and utter drivel.

You talk about Liverpool having the same model as ours. They do to a certain degree, but they used said model to back their manager. The signed players that he wanted in positions that needed strengthening in the team. But CRUCIALLY, the did so at the right time. They didn’t wait until the team he had became stale and tired before they signed Alison, VVD, Keita, Fabinho etc.

 

[Tomo]

Firstly, “prime Kane, Eriksen, Dembele, Son, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Walker, Lloris and Alli.” What the fuck did any of those players achieve before Pochettino became their manager? What can you possibly base your assumption that these players were good enough to win honours without reinforcements on? Pure and utter drivel.

You talk about Liverpool having the same model as ours. They do to a certain degree, but they used said model to back their manager. The signed players that he wanted in positions that needed strengthening in the team. But CRUCIALLY, the did so at the right time. They didn’t wait until the team he had became stale and tired before they signed Alison, VVD, Keita, Fabinho etc.

I actually remember Spurs fans wanting to sell Dembele who was unfit and frustrating, while Walker was doing Aurier brain farts all the time and Vertonghen under AVB looking disinterested. They all changed dramatically under Poch, Dembele in particular.

 

[Ossie Wembley]

Firstly, “prime Kane, Eriksen, Dembele, Son, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Walker, Lloris and Alli.” What the fuck did any of those players achieve before Pochettino became their manager? What can you possibly base your assumption that these players were good enough to win honours without reinforcements on? Pure and utter drivel.

You talk about Liverpool having the same model as ours. They do to a certain degree, but they used said model to back their manager. The signed players that he wanted in positions that needed strengthening in the team. But CRUCIALLY, the did so at the right time. They didn’t wait until the team he had became stale and tired before they signed Alison, VVD, Keita, Fabinho etc.

They were highly rated talents which possessed the potential to peform at the highest level. Kane, Son, Eriksen and Ali were at the start of their careers when he joined - just look that their respective ages. What do I base these assumption on? How about facts? How about only City amassing more points in the League than us between 2015 to 2018?. How about the 2017 team scoring the most goals in the league and conceding the fewest and wining the most games? How about a Manchester United side that were miles behind us in the league that season winning a league cup and UEFA cup? How about Woolwich winning 2 FA cups despite being way behind us in the league?

As for Liverpool backing the manager at the right time? Was that the intention when they sold their best player to do that? They wanted Van Dyke in the summer but wouldn’t pay the fee and spent the whole window chasing him. They only bought him when Countinho was off in January. They haven’t made a top level signing in two signings and have just kissed out on Werner - is this part of their grand plan?

The difference is despite their squad limitations they had a manager that won major honours with it prior to it maturity - we didn’t.

 

[Ossie Wembley]

Kane and Eriksen where with Sherwood and AVB, Alli was a kid that Poch worked with and who still has flaws in his game, Dier is a reasonable player but a million miles off Fabinho, Toby fair enough that was a good signing. Not a massively different squad in terms of the players who would become key for Poch.

And if we are comparing to Simeone one of the best managers on Earth or was one of them what makes you think he would come here down a level, not to mention his football is boring.

Kane was 20, whilst Eriksen was 21, neither had barely played PL football when Sherwood took charge. It was a massively different team and more importantly a settled one given the massively player turnover the summer of 2013 and with the removal of the likes of Adebayor and Kaboul as well as dross like Paulinho, Soldaldo.

Just look at the difference between Poch’s first season with Vertonghen and Fazio in defence and Mason and Bentaleb in midfield compared to the next season with Vertonghen and Alderwield in defence and Dier and Dembele in midfield. You could also compare Chadli with Ali.

Same manager in each season and yet there was was a world of difference in the results and performances. That says it all.