The Style v Substance discussion

  • The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports


Spurs have only scored one Premier League goal with the Wales star on the pitch this season, with the 31-year-old struggling on his return to London

The problem with the unusually compressed Premier League table is that it does not take much for clubs to get caught up in a spiralling crisis or a surging renaissance.

Manchester United have died and been reborn multiple times already. Everton have surged, collapsed, and surged again despite the season being just a third complete.

And now Tottenham, tipped by many (including this writer) to challenge for the Premier League title are suddenly has-beens, out of the running thanks to a sequence of five points from five games.

It is, of course, too early to say their chances are over; too early to fall back on old tropes about Jose Mourinho being outdated so soon after eagerly celebrating his return to the top.

Case in point, had Harry Kane not missed a sitter against Liverpool then Spurs would have won that game and the table would look very different.

Nevertheless, there are legitimate concerns regarding Spurs' attacking deficiencies, and reliance on a counterattacking Plan A, which present a potential barrier to sustaining form over a 38-game season.

These faults are represented most neatly in the curiously small impact Gareth Bale has had since his return to north London.

Bale’s performance as a second-half substitute in Sunday's 2-0 defeat to Leicester City was bafflingly poor. He was not just ineffective, he was seemingly playing without intent, direction, or even interest.

Over and over again the Wales international would receive the ball on the right, look up, see two defenders in front of him, and pass it back inside. There was no attempt to take on his man, no attempt to play an incisive forward pass, and no attempt to make off-the-ball runs to escape that overcrowded area.

It was a cameo in keeping with his performances since arriving back at Tottenham.

Bale has started just one Premier League game this season. He has featured in 161 of 900 available minutes of league football. He has scored one goal in that time - the winner in a 2-1 victory over Brighton - that right now is the only league goal Tottenham have scored this season with Bale on the pitch.

Most damning of all, despite featuring in all six Europa League matches, Bale has only scored once and averages 0.3 key passes per game – the lowest of any Spurs player.

Perhaps he simply needs more time to adjust, having been without regular first-team football for so long under Zinedine Zidane at Real Madrid, but more likely his poor form reflects Mourinho’s limitations.

The Tottenham manager does not coach his forwards like Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola do; he does not provide the structure for their moves or dictate their attacking lines.

In direct contrast to the world’s best up-and-coming managers, Mourinho expects his forwards to freely improvise, rather than coach ‘automatisms’: highly structured tactical set-plays.

Earlier in the season it seemed as though Mourinho’s coaching style – he focuses on the defensive foundations, and expects his players to counterattack instinctively – looked like an asset during pandemic football, in which a congested fixture list has led to fatigued players and severely limited coaching time in the week.

High pressing has dropped off and tactical strategies have lost detail, and, since Mourinho never relied on either of these, his Spurs team flew out of the blocks. This may still be the case, of course, and the current run of form a mere blip on the way to a successful title challenge.

And yet Tottenham fans are understandably worried.

The problem with not prescribing attacking patterns, with using a conservative midblock, and with relying on counters, is that the team becomes reliant on a few individuals to perform consistently.

Harry Kane and Son Heung-min carry a huge burden of responsibility because, unlike the possession-dominant styles at the other ‘Big Six’ clubs, Tottenham do not create many chances.

What Mourinho views as a low-risk strategy is in fact high risk: the margins are small, and if chance conversion drops the points slip away. The 1-1 draw with Crystal Palace, in which Spurs invited pressure after settling down at 1-0, is a perfect example.

The other issue with relying on a small number of counterattackers is that opponents quickly learn how to suffocate them. Defenders are stepping up and doubling up on Kane. Right-backs are staying back to negate Son.

Most significantly of all, managers are starting to hold a deeper line, with Leicester having provided the clearest blueprint yet of how to deal with Mourinho’s approach.

Brendan Rodgers sat his team back, happily conceding the majority of possession in the knowledge that Tottenham are not coached for attacking moves - and therefore cannot play with the speed, fluency, or foresight to pull apart a defensive shell.

That is why Mourinho does not appear to have a Plan B – and why Bale cannot make an impact off the bench. The 31-year-old needs direction; needs to be able to slip into a tactical groove of multiple movements and interactions.

Instead, in a Mourinho team built on individualism, Bale is expected to conjure from a standing start. If Bale looks like he does not have a plan, that is because nobody has given him one.

Some pundits believe reintroducing Dele Alli might help shake things up in claustrophobic matches, but that seems unlikely. Lucas Moura, a frequently used substitute, is yet to score off the bench under Mourinho.

The problem is systemic, and without a top-down restructuring of how Mourinho coaches, Spurs are unlikely to improve their in-game reactivity.

Then again, Tottenham are only six points off the top. A run of poor form was inevitable, particularly in this exhausting season.

There is a danger of reading too much into Tottenham’s bad week. But the problems emerging do form part of a wider pattern of Mourinho’s tactical flaws over the last few years, and are worth keeping an eye on.

Wolves this coming Sunday will no doubt use Leicester’s model. Many more will follow suit.

Perhaps Bale will ultimately become the Plan B Tottenham need to overcome hurdles like these. For now though, he looks like an expensive mistake whose main function is to highlight Mourinho’s biggest weakness.
 
The only way this football is justified is if it takes us further than what we could expect to get with 'stylish' football - i don't see there being much chance of that tbh so really we're just playing boring football for the sake of it.

I expect after a year to have seen some development in our game for when we are playing on the front foot but there has been no progress here whatsoever wgich does not bode well.
 
The reality is that it's more difficult to be successful our way. Most successful teams have high levels of possession. Mourinho has shown in the past that it's possible to be successful his way, but the odds are against it.

People are talking as if dull = success and exciting = failure. I actually think it's more likely to be the opposite.
 
This is a good gauge of forum members and the differing age groups within lol

My first game I went to was Ardiles, Roberts, Hoddle, Perryman etc. My family supported the team we played but for me, it was the style of play that attracted me to Spurs, not following in my family's footsteps.

I remember a game verses le arse where their fans were singing 'boring boring Tottenham' when we were playing under Mr. Graham. He won a trophy.

Opposition fans are probably singing the same now and maybe our current manager will win a trophy too.
 
No issue with conservative tactics against bigger clubs, especially away from home. Mourinho got it spot on against Liverpool and but for wayward finishing we would have won the game. Many points have been lost over the years through naive approaches against teams that can hurt you - Mourinho is many things but one thing he isn't is tactically naive.

However as others have written it isn't an appropriate approach against the also rans. We should be looking to be more enterprising and play such teams on the front foot. I don't mind being set up on the counter but we should be looking to move the ball quicker. I thought our movement was very pedestrian at times against Leicester.
 
The other thing about Mourinho's approach is you won't get many shots off so you need really clinical forwards. Kane has had a quiet few games by his standards and that's had an effect.
 
He was bought in to win trophies and if he does that then you cant argue with it. I'd rather we didn't sit back and defend 1-0 leads all the time though.

One thing that strikes me is we have absolutely ZERO goal threat from midfield, which could be the fact we play so much of the game in our own half..
 
We are not good at the moment. But we are not as awful as some people are making out. Yes, we have played a low block in our run against the top teams but we have basically been putting out fires and trying to create a win at all costs mentality, which is pretty new to the club. So the wheels will come off a bit in the process. Normal.

The question is, would you rather play expansive footy like Brighton have been doing and winning the square root of fuck all?

Put it this way? Would you rather we play exactly like Brighton v Man U and come away with nothing (I know we have better finishers at Spurs) or as we did v Brighton and came away with a late win and all 3 points?

I know which one I’ll take.
 
We are not good at the moment. But we are not as awful as some people are making out. Yes, we have played a low block in our run against the top teams but we have basically been putting out fires and trying to create a win at all costs mentality, which is pretty new to the club. So the wheels will come off a bit in the process. Normal.

The question is, would you rather play expansive footy like Brighton have been doing and winning the square root of fuck all?

Put it this way? Would you rather we play exactly like Brighton v Man U and come away with nothing (I know we have better finishers at Spurs) or as we did v Brighton and came away with a late win and all 3 points?

I know which one I’ll take.

There doesn't have to be a choice here ad we're not winning anyway, so we are watching shit and are still super unlikely to bring home a pot.
 
So you want Tottenham Hotspur FC to play like Brighton?
Is that your point? Bit weird. Why compare us to Brighton? Are they the new standard for football? The new Ajax??

I want us to play like Spurs. A team known for playing adventurous and exciting football. Playing on the front foot. But I grew up in the 80s. The history of the 60s and 70s was still fresh (including relegation). Maybe I was spoilt by the players I saw.

And I get it. You can’t play that way every game for 90mins. That is not realistic either.

But to honour the traditions of the club that were formed by Rowe, Nicholson and which is at the DNA of the club does mean playing an expansive style of football.

We have won next to nothing since the 90s. I still love this club. But I do think the next generation of”fans” at the ground will be similar to the clubs we currently mock. Plastics. Look at the state of them down the road.


No. I mentioned Brighton because they do play fine footy but win fuck all, like Spurs. Sure, we can play expansive footy and win pots - but we don’t have the players. Simple.
 
Question. Why chose brighton? The side that can't find the back of the net because they have Welbeck and Maupay as their strikers.

Why not pick Southhampton, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man City as the litmus test? Fuck, even Man U who are back ahead of us, play a more enjoyable brand of football.

We are sitting 5th, and could be 8th if the people behind us get their 3pts.

Shit even Aston Villa play a more attractive game than us and they have 2 games in hand. They could be 3pts ahead of us by the end of it all.

We have the squad to compete with anyone. We have seen that even with playing the most conservative style.

Why can't we turn it on a bit and be more than one dimensional?
Ok. Man U. You want to swear Man U play attacking football? Because they won a few games by many goals? Haven’t we done the same THIS same season? We beat the same Man U you are sucking off 6-1.
Soton? We beat that lot 5-2. This same season. So what are you on about?
 
3 points by any means

The problem with playing dull, "percentage containment football" as a style, is that its only really acceptable if we're getting the 3 points at the end of it.

People will put up with shite football (in terms of entertainment) if we win the games and pick up the 3 points.

Unfortunately we've been playing dull football the last 3 games and have come away with a solitary point - which is crap whichever way you look at it.

An attack of Kane, Son, Los Celso, Bale and Ndombele should be registering shots on target but I think we had 3 on target the whole of yesterday and only 1 on target when the dream Son, Kane, LOS Celso and Ndombele lineup was together in the first half.

Still seething about this last weeks worth of utter garbage.
To be honest, we have done so in the last 3 games because it was what we could do. I fear the players we have in the back are not 100% the quality we need. If you want to play expansive footy then you need defenders who don’t kick it out to row Z and can pick a pass 8 out of 10. Eric Dier loses the ball every single game, literally. Toby is better but he has struggled in the last 3 games. Then you have Aurier - enough said. Our defenders have been making schoolboy mistakes since last season and we seemed to improve for a while, until now.

We have defenders who need to be baby sat to do the basics of defending, never mind spraying passes about and picking out midfielders, attackers. Our midfielders are overwhelmed trying to help out the back four that they don’t do enough attacking. Our attackers are requested to drop to cover the gaps the midfielders have left and that leaves us looking like we have looked the last 3 games.

The issue we have is in our defense. Improve that and our midfield improves as all our midfielders won’t be required to be quasi defenders all game.
 
Back
Top Bottom