THFC....where are we?

[Jeune coq]

The elephant in the room is that our squad is shit, and it's not the usual targets like Soldado that is the problem.

Poch is a competent, journeyman manager and only has the hotseat because Levy once again got suckeed into believing he'd found the next superstar manager based on short term success. He is no great improvement on his predecessors but with a good quality squad he can still make things happen I think. He hasn't got it though. The squad lacks unity and leadership, the players don't have confidence in one another and don't seem to trust each other, many of them are unhappy it seems and potentially this is because quite a few members of the squad aren't justifying of their transfer fees or wages. There is no character either, possibly down to an unfortunate combination of weak personalities in the dressing room. We also can't be wasting time on thinking that a high transfer fee means we have to get a return on investment. That includes, I'm sorry to say, players like Lamela who, so far, show very little evidence of being good enough for the toughness of the Premiership. I'm convinced that sacking the manager won't achieve a great deal because we can't realistically replace him with a world class manager. I think we have a deep rooted squad problem that may take several years to sort out, with or without Poch. To start we need to start being decisive in the transfer market, and that means not signing the likes of Fazio and Strombolli Pizza and expecting them to work wonders for us. But do we have the talent in the club to spot quality players? I have serious doubts.

Quite frankly I think we are in the worst state we've been in for at least a decade because you look at the team in and out and it's very difficult to say what can be built on.

 

[Millbanks]

I agree with the recognised talent bit. We have enough 'potential', we need some experience and talent to guide the young players.

This janurary I want to see two players:

I would like to see someone like vdv. An experienced and talented attacking midfielder to guide eriksen and lamela. Not sure who is available, I would like to hear some suggestions.

I also think we need some scott parker grit and determination in midfield. I would love to buy milner. Such a professional nothing glamorous but gets the job done.

Fuck me we have enough AM's and DM's as it is. Poch should be allowed to try and get the best from them before we start signing any more.

How can we not see that our biggest weaknesses are not scoring enough goals and conceding too many? We need a proper, out and out striker with some real quality. Currently, Southampton, West Ham, Swansea, Man Utd, Everton, Villa, Hull, even West Brom and Leicester, have a bloke up top getting the most important thing in football - goals. We don't.

And at the back, we are terribly vulnerable. We need a real leader, a John Terry, a Nemanja Vidic, a Ledley King. Someone who doesn't accept second best.

Our problems are not complicated. We don't have the same quality all over the pitch, and therefore we have some severe weaknesses that can be exposed by even the most average managers, and there's only so much Poch can do. Vertonghen couldn't even mark Perez, leaving Rose to be completely exposed, out-jumped and out-strengthened.

Dawson was massively limited by his ability, but earned a place in our team with huge heart and desire, and a will to win.

We currently have no one like that, either in defence, midfield or attack.

 

[Tomo]

The elephant in the room is that our squad is shit, and it's not the usual targets like Soldado that is the problem.

Poch is a competent, journeyman manager and only has the hotseat because Levy once again got suckeed into believing he'd found the next superstar manager based on short term success. He is no great improvement on his predecessors but with a good quality squad he can still make things happen I think. He hasn't got it though. The squad lacks unity and leadership, the players don't have confidence in one another and don't seem to trust each other, many of them are unhappy it seems and potentially this is because quite a few members of the squad aren't justifying of their transfer fees or wages. There is no character either, possibly down to an unfortunate combination of weak personalities in the dressing room. We also can't be wasting time on thinking that a high transfer fee means we have to get a return on investment. That includes, I'm sorry to say, players like Lamela who, so far, show very little evidence of being good enough for the toughness of the Premiership. I'm convinced that sacking the manager won't achieve a great deal because we can't realistically replace him with a world class manager. I think we have a deep rooted squad problem that may take several years to sort out, with or without Poch. To start we need to start being decisive in the transfer market, and that means not signing the likes of Fazio and Strombolli Pizza and expecting them to work wonders for us. But do we have the talent in the club to spot quality players? I have serious doubts.

Quite frankly I think we are in the worst state we've been in for at least a decade because you look at the team in and out and it's very difficult to say what can be built on.

The only bright spots seem to be a few good youth players like Mason, Kane and dare I say it Rose coming through, our foreign players for the most part have been shit, yesterday Rose and Mason were head and shoulders above our other players, apparently we have quite a few more good young english players in the pipeline, as Levy wont spend jack shit that may be our only route, to be the new Southampton.

 

[Ledley93]

Fuck me we have enough AM's and DM's as it is. Poch should be allowed to try and get the best from them before we start signing any more.

How can we not see that our biggest weaknesses are not scoring enough goals and conceding too many? We need a proper, out and out striker with some real quality. Currently, Southampton, West Ham, Swansea, Man Utd, Everton, Villa, Hull, even West Brom and Leicester, have a bloke up top getting the most important thing in football - goals. We don't.

And at the back, we are terribly vulnerable. We need a real leader, a John Terry, a Nemanja Vidic, a Ledley King. Someone who doesn't accept second best.

Our problems are not complicated. We don't have the same quality all over the pitch, and therefore we have some severe weaknesses that can be exposed by even the most average managers, and there's only so much Poch can do. Vertonghen couldn't even mark Perez, leaving Rose to be completely exposed, out-jumped and out-strengthened.

Dawson was massively limited by his ability, but earned a place in our team with huge heart and desire, and a will to win.

We currently have no one like that, either in defence, midfield or attack.

I completely agree, we have far too many AM's and CM's but most of them are really similar. But we need a leader at CM who gets his hands dirty. We also need a experienced attacking mid we can rely on. Youth players with potential are too inconsistent to rely on all season.

I want a big striker but I cant see that happening in January. Who sells a top 4 standard striker mid season unless its for silly money we cant afford.

 

[Wilson]

The only bright spots seem to be a few good youth players like Mason, Kane and dare I say it Rose coming through

Yes.

I feel many 'senior' and/or foreign players either see Spurs as a stepping stone to a bigger club, or are just happy to live a good life in London on their wages.

I say let Poch work his alleged magic with a core of Rose, Walker, Bentaleb, Naughton, Mason, Townsend, Eriksen, Lamella, Kane (that's a mix of younger, mouldable players and Spurs youth who actually care about the club). I believe there are other bright sparks in the U21s who may come through over the next season or two.

The Paulinhos, Adeybayors, Vertonghens, Soldados can be sold at a their highest price possible. Then buy a serious, experienced striker to lead.

Yes, the first list is not Top Four material. Fine: let's be 7th and develop a proper style, then next year kick on.

Oh, and buy back Defoe. There, football managing done.

 

[Tomo]

I completely agree, we have far too many AM's and CM's but most of them are really similar. But we need a leader at CM who gets his hands dirty. We also need a experienced attacking mid we can rely on. Youth players with potential are too inconsistent to rely on all season.

I want a big striker but I cant see that happening in January. Who sells a top 4 standard striker mid season unless its for silly money we cant afford.

Kane - good player, clever but probably works best just behind the main forward or as a partnership, still very young so give him time.

Ade - despite his goal yesterday not good enough, movement is very poor.

Soldado - little boy, gets beaten up by every centre back and has no pace and can't finish that well which are sort of important for forwards.

Basically keep Kane, need one or two new forwards, sell Ade and Soldado if a good offer comes in.

 

[ChuckleShuffle]

Yes.

I feel many 'senior' and/or foreign players either see Spurs as a stepping stone to a bigger club, or are just happy to live a good life in London on their wages.

I say let Poch work his alleged magic with a core of Rose, Walker, Bentaleb, Naughton, Mason, Townsend, Eriksen, Lamella, Kane (that's a mix of younger, mouldable players and Spurs youth who actually care about the club). I believe there are other bright sparks in the U21s who may come through over the next season or two.

The Paulinhos, Adeybayors, Vertonghens, Soldados can be sold at a their highest price possible. Then buy a serious, experienced striker to lead.

Yes, the first list is not Top Four material. Fine: let's be 7th and develop a proper style, then next year kick on.

Oh, and buy back Defoe. There, football managing done.

I agree with most of what you are saying but Bentaleb isn't an option. If we want to start playing better football and bring back the exciting style we used to have we can have players that only look sideways or backwards.

Mason has been brilliant since coming into the first team and if Poch can recognise his talent and is willing to start him week in week out them I'm sure we will bring some more young talent through.

It would be nice to see Townsend feature a lot more than he does again, but with Poch and Lamela both being Argentinian I cant see it happening. For the good of Townsend's career and the good of England I think we should let him leave and join a side he will play week in week out.

 

[Aussie Ardiles]

Kane - good player, clever but probably works best just behind the main forward or as a partnership, still very young so give him time.

Ade - despite his goal yesterday not good enough, movement is very poor.

Soldado - little boy, gets beaten up by every centre back and has no pace and can't finish that well which are sort of important for forwards.

Basically keep Kane, need one or two new forwards, sell Ade and Soldado if a good offer comes in.

Would love to see a run of about 3 or 4 games at home where Kane and Soldado start together. Two weaknesses you mention for them would be looked after a bit (Kane needing to play behind a striker & Soldado getting beaten up by CBs). After a 2nd poor showing in a row the pressure on Chadli shouldn't mean he is a certain starter, same goes for Lamela. It's the system of our play that looks like our biggest problem at home.

 

[Merl]

I think there are potentially some bright spots for the future and I think Poch has to be given time to root out the weak links and bring in the players he wants.

Fans have to be realistic as well - Liverpool finished 7th / 8th for about three or four seasons before finishing 2nd last year for example, so it takes time to build and we have no divine right to be up there on reputation alone.

Top 4 is very unlikely - we've lost four games already this season so hard to see how we are going to accumulate the points needed to finish there and in any case, we are clearly not ready for that level of football.

 

[ChuckleShuffle]

I think there are potentially some bright spots for the future and I think Poch has to be given time to root out the weak links and bring in the players he wants.

Fans have to be realistic as well - Liverpool finished 7th / 8th for about three or four seasons before finishing 2nd last year for example, so it takes time to build and we have no divine right to be up there on reputation alone.

Top 4 is very unlikely - we've lost four games already this season so hard to see how we are going to accumulate the points needed to finish there and in any case, we are clearly not ready for that level of football.

This is why I personally think it would be good to see us avoid getting Europa next year.

The extra matches don't help. We have to rotate the squad a lot which makes it harder for partnerships to form.

I just hope Levy gives Poch time.

 

[Aussie Ardiles]

This is why I personally think it would be good to see us avoid getting Europa next year.

The extra matches don't help. We have to rotate the squad a lot which makes it harder for partnerships to form.

I just hope Levy gives Poch time.

People are over playing this extra games crap. How is it any different to the Champions League side who plays on the Wednesday and Saturday? I'll tell you how, they have stronger leaders who don't let the performance levels drop below 90% for any longer than a few minutes!

 

[alexwooty]

As I was leaving the ground yesterday I heard someone say they thought this was "the worst team we've had for 19 years"! The level of melt from some people is just absurd.

 

[Tomo]

As I was leaving the ground yesterday I heard someone say they thought this was "the worst team we've had for 19 years"! The level of melt from some people is just absurd.

No way the worst team, strongest indepth probably, mentally the weakest I have seen though, players we have should be putting Newcastle to the sword.

 

[ChuckleShuffle]

People are over playing this extra games crap. How is it any different to the Champions League side who plays on the Wednesday and Saturday? I'll tell you how, they have stronger leaders who don't let the performance levels drop below 90% for any longer than a few minutes!

The extra matches make a huge difference! Liverpool only managed 2nd in the league because they had no European competition and dropped out of cup games early.

If they had a European competition too then Suarez, Sturridge and Sterling would have been tired and unable to play all of the matches.

If we didn't have Europa league this year we would more than likely field the same side every week that would have had more time training together and learning/understanding exactly what Poch wants from them. It would allow everyone more time for recovery meaning less muscle injuries and more cohesion within the squad.

 

[Aussie Ardiles]

The extra matches make a huge difference! Liverpool only managed 2nd in the league because they had no European competition and dropped out of cup games early.

If they had a European competition too then Suarez, Sturridge and Sterling would have been tired and unable to play all of the matches.

If we didn't have Europa league this year we would more than likely field the same side every week that would have had more time training together and learning/understanding exactly what Poch wants from them. It would allow everyone more time for recovery meaning less muscle injuries and more cohesion within the squad.

Explain how it's any different to what those Champions League sides have to deal with?

What I do agree with is that extra games it taking its toll at the back end of the season. But right now its not even November and we've only played 9 games in the league and 6 in cups! If these 20-28 year olds are tired after 15 games god help us all!

And what are these muscles injuries we have? Naughton? That was from a hack of a tackle in game

 

[Joe Clash]

This is why I personally think it would be good to see us avoid getting Europa next year.

The extra matches don't help. We have to rotate the squad a lot which makes it harder for partnerships to form.

We're trying to get into the CL - the EL is a way in - and you learn the discipline of midweek football and rotation. We're not so good we can pick and choose what competitions to play in. Tottenham needs to be in Europe.

 

[ChuckleShuffle]

We're trying to get into the CL - the EL is a way in - and you learn the discipline of midweek football and rotation. We're not so good we can pick and choose what competitions to play in. Tottenham needs to be in Europe.

I know I'm recycling what I said before but Liverpool are a great advert that maybe a few years out of Europe isn't a bad thing. It would give us much needed time to re-establish what we want and maybe our best players wont be poached by top clubs all the time.

 

[Merl]

What I really want to see is a team being built, playing in a positive way and gradually improving as the season progresses.

I'm not expecting champs league or trophies this season but i want to come out of games thinking 'Yes, I see what Poch / the team is trying to do and with a few adjustments we can be a very good team capable of challenging the top teams.'

 

[Joe Clash]

I know I'm recycling what I said before but Liverpool are a great advert that maybe a few years out of Europe isn't a bad thing. It would give us much needed time to re-establish what we want and maybe our best players wont be poached by top clubs all the time.

Ok, but what good will it do them if they crash out of the CL and fuck up in the League? I think it has to be learned, so the bigger competition doesn't come as such a shock.

 

[Aussie Ardiles]

I know I'm recycling what I said before but Liverpool are a great advert that maybe a few years out of Europe isn't a bad thing. It would give us much needed time to re-establish what we want and maybe our best players wont be poached by top clubs all the time.

Yes it helped Liverpool last season. But right now 16 games in the 5 EL games isn't why we are terrible in the league. Also how is Thur-Sun any different to Wed-Sat that the Champions League offers?