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Manager Thomas Frank
- Thread starter The Fighting Cock
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No chance finish 7th. I doubt we’ll average a goal a game in the pl
Why, that wouldn’t be new.
Johnson playing as a winger sparks alarms in me
he can be a second striker, but for that you need to play 2 up front
He doesn’t stand a chance. Seems we are giving him even less tools to work with than the previous managers. Soon he will realise, if he hasn’t already, that he’s made a huge mistake. He’s obviously a good manager but he won’t get the support he got at Brentford. As I said the other month, I expect him going back there within the next two years.
Not really pathetic when kids can score two against us. Treating that as a friendly like that? I hope the lads and Frank are more competitive than that. Utter complacency to have the excuse of it being a 'friendly' when Bayern went so hard even at first gear. Lol.
He will take the blame though so won’t be long till the forum has a ‘new manager thread’ to look at who should replace Frank. I’d rather the club back Frank and get him some decent players instead but we have been here before.
I find it funny as if some people didn't realise we have the exact same forward line as per last season. Never mind Son left and players were down because of it (which I think is a really ridiculous excuse). We don't have much of Son last season towards the end anyway due to his niggling injuries, but I guess people wouldn't reckon that if that fits into their narratives.
Truth being last season we had so few personnel to rely on because of the stupid injuries pile up nd Ange had difficulty prioritising the matches. We are not even halfway on the list now and Frank was playing a setup already less than inspiring. Not even talking about the Bayern game. Hands up if anyone thinks the past games against Wycombe and Luton were as much as Bayern were over us yesterday. Someone said Ange didn't know shit. All things considered equal, perhaps he did know more shit than Frank in setting up a team even with hands and legs all tied up.
I would love for Frank to come good, because if he doesn't, it will only hurt the club I support. But ultimately we will need to call the spade a spade and so far, regardless of whether it's a fucking pre season or not, he's only going to show how much Ange had work against all odds past two seasons.
Truth being last season we had so few personnel to rely on because of the stupid injuries pile up nd Ange had difficulty prioritising the matches. We are not even halfway on the list now and Frank was playing a setup already less than inspiring. Not even talking about the Bayern game. Hands up if anyone thinks the past games against Wycombe and Luton were as much as Bayern were over us yesterday. Someone said Ange didn't know shit. All things considered equal, perhaps he did know more shit than Frank in setting up a team even with hands and legs all tied up.
I would love for Frank to come good, because if he doesn't, it will only hurt the club I support. But ultimately we will need to call the spade a spade and so far, regardless of whether it's a fucking pre season or not, he's only going to show how much Ange had work against all odds past two seasons.
Another manager who appears to be set up to fail.
I stupidly had a bit of hope that things were changing when we got frank all the staff he wanted in including cochrane and then we signed Kudus and next day seemed to be getting MGW.
Since then it all has gone the way every other summer does and league starts in a week and we are severely under cooked. We finished 17th last season with 22 defeats which can't all be pinned on Ange. We needed a massive summer and instead we have seen our so called rivals have those summers while we are now scrambling around looking for whoever we can get in cheap.
Frank always said he would do a huge amount of due diligence on his next club after Brentford, not sure why he thought he could do well here but like poch if he does it will be despite the people running the club and not because of them
I stupidly had a bit of hope that things were changing when we got frank all the staff he wanted in including cochrane and then we signed Kudus and next day seemed to be getting MGW.
Since then it all has gone the way every other summer does and league starts in a week and we are severely under cooked. We finished 17th last season with 22 defeats which can't all be pinned on Ange. We needed a massive summer and instead we have seen our so called rivals have those summers while we are now scrambling around looking for whoever we can get in cheap.
Frank always said he would do a huge amount of due diligence on his next club after Brentford, not sure why he thought he could do well here but like poch if he does it will be despite the people running the club and not because of them
Think he's being treated worse than any previous manager at the start of their tenure, including Nuno. What i dont get, unike Nuno he was their number one choice, paid £10m for him, got all the coaching staff he wanted and have basically chucked him under the bus before a competitive ball has been kicked. He must have been made certain promises to come here which i'm sure we've already broken. This club is run so badly its mind boggling.
Doesn’t matter who is the manager or technical director always run the same. Only time it felt different slightly was Paratici and I think that is because he had big enough personality and connections to sneak a few good deals here and there. My concern with Lange isn’t that he doesn’t have the understanding of what is needed but he doesn’t seem to be a political beast who can swing things more just a technical guy hence why I think we need a DoF like Paratici back if only to blunt Levy.
I honestly think it’s basically impossible for us to succeed.
When we saw the first real talk of Ange being moved on last season we got linked to Frank, Silva and Iraola. I said that I had a weird feeling with Frank that it just didn’t seem like it would fit, but it was based on nothing other than a gut feeling. When we signed him up, that decision was made by people who have forgotten more about football working around it for years, than I will ever know about it sat at home watching it. Reading through, he’s a very competent, astute footy manager, who, to do what he did with Brentford clearly has talent and knowledge to get teams playing and likely succeeding above their perceived level. So to me he needs backing, and he needs time.
The Europa league win was beyond incredible, but I think it’s also hid for a lot of people just how bad things were last season. We were beyond abysmal in the league and any time we came up against any real top competition we looked like an under 12’s team. The trickiest teams we had in the EL were Frankfurt, United and Galatasaray. It takes nothing away from us winning the trophy, but it has context to it.
Frank started here on the 12th June, it’s now the 8th August, he hasn’t played one competitive game. Pre season wise, he’s beat Woolwich, and lost to Bayern. Fairs fair, we were played off the park last night, all the cliches - “men vs boys” etc. but read this thread and tell me we don’t have a real toxicity to our fanbase? He’s a PE teacher, his tactics haven’t and will never work, he’s a long ball merchant…. He hasn’t even managed a league game yet. If, at Christmas we’re sat where Ange had us by the end of the season last time out, and every game is played in our own penalty area then fine, criticise and fill your boots but surely let the league begin and wait till the bloke has his full squad available? How is ANY manager meant to succeed here when as a fanbase ‘we’ turn this quick?
The real problem here is what it’s been for a long long time, the owners. Simply put, we aren’t an elite football club, we’re a business with a football team attached to it. We won’t go for, and certainly won’t pay for the top players. We talk about ambition but it’s hollow. We talk about winning things, but the Europa League last year, as great as it was, heavily assisted us with changes to its set up (no CL teams etc). We haven’t been close to an English trophy in a while because it inevitably means having to beat a higher quality of team throughout.
Frank has not been backed, and as much as I wasn’t sure if he was the correct option, I wanted him to get time and patience and support from people to see what he could do - he’s not even been given pre season from a number of people. It’s the owners that need to do one, because under them we will never find proper nor consistent success, but to read these threads and see people binning the manager already after what, 4 pre season games? Makes you think it’s impossible to be successful here regardless.
When we saw the first real talk of Ange being moved on last season we got linked to Frank, Silva and Iraola. I said that I had a weird feeling with Frank that it just didn’t seem like it would fit, but it was based on nothing other than a gut feeling. When we signed him up, that decision was made by people who have forgotten more about football working around it for years, than I will ever know about it sat at home watching it. Reading through, he’s a very competent, astute footy manager, who, to do what he did with Brentford clearly has talent and knowledge to get teams playing and likely succeeding above their perceived level. So to me he needs backing, and he needs time.
The Europa league win was beyond incredible, but I think it’s also hid for a lot of people just how bad things were last season. We were beyond abysmal in the league and any time we came up against any real top competition we looked like an under 12’s team. The trickiest teams we had in the EL were Frankfurt, United and Galatasaray. It takes nothing away from us winning the trophy, but it has context to it.
Frank started here on the 12th June, it’s now the 8th August, he hasn’t played one competitive game. Pre season wise, he’s beat Woolwich, and lost to Bayern. Fairs fair, we were played off the park last night, all the cliches - “men vs boys” etc. but read this thread and tell me we don’t have a real toxicity to our fanbase? He’s a PE teacher, his tactics haven’t and will never work, he’s a long ball merchant…. He hasn’t even managed a league game yet. If, at Christmas we’re sat where Ange had us by the end of the season last time out, and every game is played in our own penalty area then fine, criticise and fill your boots but surely let the league begin and wait till the bloke has his full squad available? How is ANY manager meant to succeed here when as a fanbase ‘we’ turn this quick?
The real problem here is what it’s been for a long long time, the owners. Simply put, we aren’t an elite football club, we’re a business with a football team attached to it. We won’t go for, and certainly won’t pay for the top players. We talk about ambition but it’s hollow. We talk about winning things, but the Europa League last year, as great as it was, heavily assisted us with changes to its set up (no CL teams etc). We haven’t been close to an English trophy in a while because it inevitably means having to beat a higher quality of team throughout.
Frank has not been backed, and as much as I wasn’t sure if he was the correct option, I wanted him to get time and patience and support from people to see what he could do - he’s not even been given pre season from a number of people. It’s the owners that need to do one, because under them we will never find proper nor consistent success, but to read these threads and see people binning the manager already after what, 4 pre season games? Makes you think it’s impossible to be successful here regardless.
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A lot people were no to PL mid table managers because the perception is a shift to being happy with mid table. After 2 months and 5 pre season games you would expect to see a semblance of structure, organisation, tactics. Last night was a shambles and to say Frank carries no responsibility for that is absurd. Unfortunately, in a world of instant gratification, managers don't get a seasons grace. You get 10 games. For Frank, thats 10 games where only two are against big six teams. No excuse to not be in and around the top six.
Which is great, except we don’t want to play with the big boys. No top managers will come here anymore, because they saw what Mourinho and Conte had to work with.
That leaves us with young up and coming managers usually from places like the Dutch league, or, mid table prem managers in the hope that they are better than the infrastructure of their current club allows them to be.
The Dutch league manager bit sometimes works, because Arne Slot for example has worked out well, but the key difference is he has Liverpools board backing him in ways that we simply would never, ever even consider.
It’s not about being happy with a shift to being mid-table, but that’s where we are realistically. Our board has let our best players leave, and replaced them with mid table players. This is a mid table squad.
Thing is, I can see a semblance of structure, I can see that he’s trying to organise us and get us to be a little more solid. There’s going to be games though like last night where top quality show how easy it is to pull that apart - and that’s because he’s got a mid table squad who were so poorly coached last year that he’s going from a minus position to try and fix it before he can look to improve it.
You’re right, instant gratification is a thing, people are entitled and now react nastily if we don’t win every pre season game it seems. Like you say the opening games give him the chance to be pushing up around top six, I agree we should be pushing there too. My point is, can we at least let the bloke actually manage those games before slagging him off, name calling and saying he’s shit and will never work.
Will he work out? I’ve no idea. Do I think he actually deserves a genuine chance to try given the shit he’s working with? Abso-fucking-lutely.
After 10 games under Poch we had 14 pts and sat 8th. We then preceded to lose at home to Stoke the week after, our 4th home defeat of the season. That had us in 10th. We'd only really played City and Liverpool, Woolwich were pretty weak at that time. He also had a better side than this one.
Also if we did sack him then who's coming here with this squad? There wont be a Conte to dig us out of a hole, forget the big name. It would be the likes of Marco Silva or Kieron Mckenna.
Nah mate, you are miles out to judge tactics and structure from a pre season friendly.
If there was anything to judge Frank on last night it was the effort levels because most of them looked like they didn’t want to be there.
Give it 10 pl games before deciding what the tactics and structure look like.
Looking on the bright side at least I think I trust Frank as a man who is very proactive in the analysis and reactive planning elements of coaching. I think a heavy loss such as the one to Bayern (and probably another one coming to PSG) will give him a lot of information on our main weaknesses.
I would think he will be trying to tinker with his instructions accordingly, as best he can anyway with this group of players he currently has. Unlike our previous 'system managers' who would just say 'do it better' I hope Frank will tinker and adapt to try cover the current issues.
I would think he will be trying to tinker with his instructions accordingly, as best he can anyway with this group of players he currently has. Unlike our previous 'system managers' who would just say 'do it better' I hope Frank will tinker and adapt to try cover the current issues.
Lange goes before Frank. We've spent reasonable money to get Frank and Lange can be replaced with another laptop guy much easier.