Manager Thomas Frank

[Notabadsquad]

I just hope the club have an active plan in the event they dismiss Frank, which must br nearing that point.

The winter window is one where we can't have uncertainty jeopardising necessary expenditure.

 

[dustybin]

Was never the right appointment. Lange should go as well, wanted to get a friend in so it would be an easier day to day relationship at the expense of the football club. you always hold out hope that something clicks or he adapts to the club. Was obvious in the chelsea game that it wasn’t going to work. Everyone’s just waiting now.

 

[Matt1882]

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Fcuking state of that. And some people advocated for keeping him.

 

[CJJ]

Fcuking state of that. And some people advocated for keeping him.

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That's basically what this season is being compared to, but apparently the cup win means the players should all suddenly be playing like top 4 quality, even though they didn't do that to win that cup

 

[Richard Arlison]

16 points from 21 games then, if you like.

Not exactly a high bar is it. Ange got 15 from 63. GF 25, GA 32.

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Is your point that Ange was bad so that’s why Frank is the man for Spurs?

I understood keeping Ange because he had the belief in the squad to win the EL and this club needed a trophy.

Also understood sacking him because he was clearly not the man to take us up a level in the league.

Frank is his own man separate to Ange and the only questions we need to ask are:

1. Has he got the squad believing they can win trophies this season?

2. Is he the right man to take the team up a few levels so we can challenge for the league again?

 

[CJJ]

Is your point that Ange was bad so that’s why Frank is the man for Spurs?

I understood keeping Ange because he had the belief in the squad to win the EL and this club needed a trophy.

Also understood sacking him because he was clearly not the man to take us up a level in the league.

Frank is his own man separate to Ange and the only questions we need to ask are:

1. Has he got the squad believing they can win trophies this season?

2. Is he the right man to take the team up a few levels so we can challenge for the league again?

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No, my point is that people seem to be suggesting we are underperforming - or at least have some higher expectation - and others are still trying to convince everyone that Ange would be doing better.

As far as I'm concerned, there's clearly a transition phase required here to change the mentality towards league performances, and I don't think any manager would be doing much better. We saw Mourinho and Conte - two 'elite' managers (if not verging into dinosaur territory) - complaining about the same thing.

It's baffling because you'll get people identifying that Vicario is a liability, Romero is a liability, Udogie is now a bit shit and brittle, Porro is shit, Bentancur is shit, Xavi is a bit shit, etc etc, but at the same time talking like we should be up there with City. Not at all saying that Frank is the answer here, but I also don't think another upheaval is, either.

 

[Beni]

I don’t think Frank is the right appointment, and if someone said we could get x in now and no issues, then I’d sack him now. So, this isn’t me advocating for him or accepting the state we’re in. It’s more about playing the hand we’ve got in the smartest way possible. Rushing him out now would likely just land us an average manager, as most of the better ones are still in jobs and won’t leave mid-season, whereas higher quality options will be available in the summer when contracts expire or managers are willing to move.

As bleak as things look, relegation isn’t inevitable. Teams in 18th have to string together results they’ve consistently failed to achieve, and the goal difference maths makes it even harder. We’re in a relatively safe spot, so the smartest move is patience, not panic, in order to get the next appointment right.

 

[Richard Arlison]

No, my point is that people seem to be suggesting we are underperforming - or at least have some higher expectation - and others are still trying to convince everyone that Ange would be doing better.

As far as I'm concerned, there's clearly a transition phase required here to change the mentality towards league performances, and I don't think any manager would be doing much better. We saw Mourinho and Conte - two 'elite' managers (if not verging into dinosaur territory) - complaining about the same thing.

It's baffling because you'll get people identifying that Vicario is a liability, Romero is a liability, Udogie is now a bit shit and brittle, Porro is shit, Bentancur is shit, Xavi is a bit shit, etc etc, but at the same time talking like we should be up there with City. Not at all saying that Frank is the answer here, but I also don't think another upheaval is, either.

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This squad with worse depth finished 5th the season before. Probably more than 200m? Has been invested into it since then.

It underperformed in the league last year and it’s obviously underperforming now.

I can hear the point that this is a transitional phase but by Christmas we should have at least seen flashes of where we are transitioning to….

We aren’t seeing that.

Liverpool stuck with Klopp and we stuck with Poch because there were performances and games where both teams looked like dominant teams but they just couldn’t do it consistently. Our good performances look like Brentford and our bad performances look like West Ham.

 

[candrews]

The solution to this would be a clever spin from the board / owners. Offering Ange 6 months at redemption. Giving the players back the manager they still believe and talk about highly.

In 6 months either go hard for Poch or if Ange has showed what many believe he can for us in continuing our original build then potentially those who were quick to call for his head would see things differently.

 

[Notabadsquad]

Was never the right appointment. Lange should go as well, wanted to get a friend in so it would be an easier day to day relationship at the expense of the football club. you always hold out hope that something clicks or he adapts to the club. Was obvious in the chelsea game that it wasn’t going to work. Everyone’s just waiting now.

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I think so.

It's a matter of not knee-jerking however and into another poor appointment.

Ideally Frank rides the storm through to the end of the season but that looks unlikely.

We just need stability off the field and to find something akin to competitive on it.

 

[Matt1882]

I don’t think Frank is the right appointment, and if someone said we could get x in now and no issues, then I’d sack him now. So, this isn’t me advocating for him or accepting the state we’re in. It’s more about playing the hand we’ve got in the smartest way possible. Rushing him out now would likely just land us an average manager, as most of the better ones are still in jobs and won’t leave mid-season, whereas higher quality options will be available in the summer when contracts expire or managers are willing to move.

As bleak as things look, relegation isn’t inevitable. Teams in 18th have to string together results they’ve consistently failed to achieve, and the goal difference maths makes it even harder. We’re in a relatively safe spot, so the smartest move is patience, not panic, in order to get the next appointment right.

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But who is X?

And what if S, T, U, V, W, X, Y AND Z are all only on the table next summer?

 

[CJJ]

This squad with worse depth finished 5th the season before. Probably more than 200m? Has been invested into it since then.

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With no Europe, and Ange exited both domestic cups immediately.

Wasn't exactly impressive outside of the first 10 games, and certainly not this point onwards in 23/24.

A lot of the above is also Maddison, Son, and Kulusevski - none of which we have now

 

[The Dazzler99]

I don’t think Frank is the right appointment, and if someone said we could get x in now and no issues, then I’d sack him now. So, this isn’t me advocating for him or accepting the state we’re in. It’s more about playing the hand we’ve got in the smartest way possible. Rushing him out now would likely just land us an average manager, as most of the better ones are still in jobs and won’t leave mid-season, whereas higher quality options will be available in the summer when contracts expire or managers are willing to move.

As bleak as things look, relegation isn’t inevitable. Teams in 18th have to string together results they’ve consistently failed to achieve, and the goal difference maths makes it even harder. We’re in a relatively safe spot, so the smartest move is patience, not panic, in order to get the next appointment right.

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This is where I’m at! The teams below us are far worse so we won’t go down.

I hope Frank makes it click, but I can’t remember a single game where we have looked anything like a team who have a plan.

January will be interesting, if the club will get rid of Frank in the summer (unless something huge changes then I believe they will) I just hope they have a profile of manager they want to buy some players who will fit that

 

[CJJ]

The solution to this would be a clever spin from the board / owners. Offering Ange 6 months at redemption. Giving the players back the manager they still believe and talk about highly.

In 6 months either go hard for Poch or if Ange has showed what many believe he can for us in continuing our original build then potentially those who were quick to call for his head would see things differently.

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Ange was the shittest premier league manager we've had.

Get over it

 

[TeamSpirit™]

I know Frank will take a lot of the flack from recent performances (rightly or wrongly) but taking a step back and looking at our current squad it's unbelievable how far we've regressed.

A few here saying we've not replaced the quality lost from Son & Kane, but I don't think it's even close. How many of our current wide options (bar maybe Kudus) would get in ahead of some of the other players we've had over the years e.g Lamela, Moura.. maybe even Bergwign?

These next two windows are vital, if we don't bring in the profiles we need we could be looking like a mid table side for the forseeable.

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The thing is with Frank, I don’t think anyone should see his supposed vision/tendencies and be confident he has the right ideas how to build a progressive team.

Reluctant to intergrate youth, the non-footballer Palhinha being his big idea to balance the midfield, seeing Bergvall and Sarr as advanced CMs.

When people say “sack the manager”, that’s not excusing the players. I want the next manager to come in and clear out a number of players in the manner of 2014-15 Pochettino. I just don’t believe in Frank’s methods, that’s all.

 

[Richard Arlison]

With no Europe, and Ange exited both domestic cups immediately.

Wasn't exactly impressive outside of the first 10 games, and certainly not this point onwards in 23/24.

A lot of the above is also Maddison, Son, and Kulusevski - none of which we have now

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This squad in 14th is massively underachieving.

Obviously it is…. What are we even doing here?

If we were underachieving but seeing flashes of where we are headed, then that’s the time to show conviction and stay the course but so far the flashes we’ve seen aren’t looking like an elite team.

Unless your point is that you are seeing signs that this transition phase is leading towards a team that can challenge for the league? If you are seeing that, what were they? I’m open minded to Frank working out and I’m wrong all the time so maybe I’m just not seeing it.

 

[CJJ]

Liverpool stuck with Klopp and we stuck with Poch because there were performances and games where both teams looked like dominant teams but they just couldn’t do it consistently. Our good performances look like Brentford and our bad performances look like West Ham.

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No, it was the exact same thing back on here at this point with Poch tbh. The main difference is he had better players, with Kane having emerged for a start:

Manager - Mauricio Pochettino

like waking up an angry bear.

thefightingcock.co.uk

 

[CJJ]

This squad in 14th is massively underachieving.

Obviously it is…. What are we even doing here?

If we were underachieving but seeing flashes of where we are headed, then that’s the time to show conviction and stay the course but so far the flashes we’ve seen aren’t looking like an elite team.

Unless your point is that you are seeing signs that this transition phase is leading towards a team that can challenge for the league? If you are seeing that, what were they? I’m open minded to Frank working out and I’m wrong all the time so maybe I’m just not seeing it.

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How can this squad be 'massively underachieving' though if this is better than they've done for over a year?

The main reason why we're 14th is Vicario and Romero making mistakes.

 

[Beni]

But who is X?

And what if S, T, U, V, W, X, Y AND Z are all only on the table next summer?

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That’s the million-dollar question. If X is a Pep level manager, brilliant. If he’s available now, fits the system, and can transform us overnight, then yeah, open the money chest and get him in.

But if X isn’t realistically available until the summer, then settling for a Southgate level manager just because they’re immediately on hand, won’t ever properly transform us, wastes money, time and kicks the can another 12 months down the road.

But yes, the real problem is, who is X? And if S, T, U, V, W, X, Y and Z are all only on the table next summer anyway, rushing now just wastes time for no gain.

Just like transfers, buy cheap and buy twice, let’s just get it right first time.

 

[Sir Archibald Crooks]

I dont think anyone wants Frank here beyond the end of the season, they'd have to be massive improvement, getting top 6 with real signs of playing style improving but just dont see it. Think he's already a dead duck.

But its all about timing. Who can we get in the next few weeks? The last thing we need is another panic appointment thats here for a few months. None of the world cup managers are going anywhere, including Poch. Likes of Glasner, De Zerbi may be possible but they''d likely wait with potentially Chelsea, Man U and others as possibilities in the summer.