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Manager Thomas Frank

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Are you Frank Out or In?

  • Total voters
    623
HyNdZee said:
I mean, this is the point I was making preseason. To me, I didn't think it made sense to sack Ange just for 10th with Frank. If you want to sack Ange after 10 games fine, but you may as well bring in an FA Cup winning Glasner, or a clubman like Ledley King, or put Levy in charge of the team.

It literally made zero sense to be happy with a mid-table manager that had zero real European experience and didn't deserve to be managing in the Super Cup or the Champions League.

17th and a trophy will always mean more.
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It's done now. Do we really need to dissect that decision for the 500th time?

Frank was a punt that hasn't worked out. The board obviously hoped he'd raise his game and find a balance between pragmatism and attacking football. Basically a sensible appointment to steady the ship after the injury-strewn chaos of Ange who long term, could do what Arteta has done down the road. Turns out he's not cut out for it and we're almost certainly gonna need to start again in the summer.

I don't think keeping Ange would've been any better - sacking him was correct. The mistake we made was punting on the wrong guy. Glasner would've definitely been better - he's a genuine winner - but not convinced he's right for Spurs either.
 
Timberwolf said:
It's done now. Do we really need to dissect that decision for the 500th time?
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If I say it is the wrong decision before it is made, get hammered for it, then yes, because the <40% of us who knew it was the wrong decision AT THE TIME already could do a better job than ENIC for free.

It's not a sensible decision to waste billions of pounds in transfers on managers and players and chairmen and recruitment staff and repeat the cycle. The majority just think whatever decision is made is good at the time and go with it and are too cowardly to bet on it themselves, and more than happy to forget when they are always wrong.

ENIC pay themselves to get it wrong. The majority of fans pay and say it is right. The fans who point out it is wrong at the time get hammered. They point it out after the fact and get gaslit.
 
HyNdZee said:
If I say it is the wrong decision before it is made, get hammered for it, then yes, because the <40% of us who knew it was the wrong decision AT THE TIME already could do a better job than ENIC for free.

It's not a sensible decision to waste billions of pounds in transfers on managers and players and chairmen and recruitment staff and repeat the cycle. The majority just think whatever decision is made is good at the time and go with it and are too cowardly to bet on it themselves, and more than happy to forget when they are always wrong.

ENIC pay themselves to get it wrong. The majority of fans pay and say it is right. The fans who point out it is wrong at the time get hammered. They point it out after the fact and get gaslit.
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Ange may well have done worse thank Frank, though. Any losses would've been dissected to death and unless we started the season on fire it would've almost certainly descended into a Ten Hag situation. I don't think you can say "I was right" when you're talking about a purely hypothetical alternative.

In terms of being right about Frank - fair play he's been rubbish. That said, I don't think too many Spurs fans were excited about Frank's appointment. I think the majority were just hopeful that he could steady the ship and be a safe pair of hands while playing a fairly attacking style of football akin. Sadly that hasn't been the case.

On the topic of choosing managers, I listened to an interesting podcast a while back with a data/recruitment guy who used to work for Brentford and he basically said picking managers is the hardest thing to get right in football. Outside of obvious winners like Pep and Klopp there are just so many variables and things that can go wrong.

Whoever we brought in to replace Ange was a punt and whoever we bring in to replace Frank will be a punt. It's just trying your best to make the most educated punt you can - and the board fucked it with Frank unfortunately.
 
Timberwolf said:
Ange may well have done worse thank Frank, though. Any losses would've been dissected to death and unless we started the season on fire it would've almost certainly descended into a Ten Hag situation. I don't think you can say "I was right" when you're talking about a purely hypothetical alternative.

In terms of being right about Frank - fair play he's been rubbish. That said, I don't think too many Spurs fans were excited about Frank's appointment. I think the majority were just hopeful that he could steady the ship and be a safe pair of hands. Sadly that hasn't really been the case.

On the topic of choosing managers, I listened to an interesting podcast a while back with a data/recruitment guy who used to work for Brentford and he basically said picking managers is the hardest thing to get right in football. Outside of obvious winners like Pep and Klopp there are just so many variables and things that can go wrong.

Whoever we brought in to replace Ange and whoever we bring in to replace Frank will be a punt. It's just trying your best to make the most educated punt you can - and the board fucked it with Frank.
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The board surely must have had a list of the managerial qualities they are looking for.

Top of my list would have been to build on last years momentum, positive mindset, integrate Bergvall, Sarr, Archie, Tel, get more out of Johnson. Take a more measured/balance approach to defending. Good communicator.
 
Kiro Kompiro said:
The board surely must have had a list of the managerial qualities they are looking for.

Top of my list would have been to build on last years momentum, positive mindset, integrate Bergvall, Sarr, Archie, Tel, get more out of Johnson. Take a more measured/balance approach to defending. Good communicator.
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Yeah, and if you put a positive spin on Frank's CV you can imagine how Levy, Vinai & co fed themselves a narrative that he ticks those boxes: likeable guy, good communicator, improves players, massively overachieves his budget, strong on set-pieces, blah blah blah. Given the way the game's going I bet they thought he could be our Arteta. And I'm sure in his interview he came across well and sold them a dream of attacking football and how he could upscale what he learned at Brentford to a club like Spurs.

Alas turns out he really doesn't seem capable of leveling up to a bigger club and rather seems to be dragging us down to Brentford's level. He lacks the charisma and winning mentality demanded of an elite manager and that's something that can't be learned on the job.
 
Timberwolf said:
I don't think you can say "I was right" when you're talking about a purely hypothetical alternative.
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Start of the thread: I say Frank is the wrong decision, >60% disagree.

Now in the thread, over half way through the season, you say Frank is the wrong decision, and that I can't say I was right about that.

Why don't you just fuck off and never actually reply to my posts.
 
HyNdZee said:
Start of the thread: I say Frank is the wrong decision, >60% disagree.

Now in the thread, over half way through the season, you say Frank is the wrong decision, and that I can't say I was right about that.

Why don't you just fuck off and never actually reply to my posts.
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Haha I literally said fair play on being right about Frank. But no-one can say keeping Ange would've definitely been better - that's a pure fantasy.

But ok, have a nice life. :frankthumbs:
 
Timberwolf said:
Haha I literally said fair play on being right about Frank.
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Talking shite.

I literally offered bets to everybody on this thread that Frank would not finish top 4 or win any trophy including the Super Cup, in essence never finishing higher than Ange did in his 1st or 2nd season.

This isn't some hypothetical.

Our ceiling is top 4 or bottom half and a trophy — has been the entirity of ENIC and will be.

It's another hundreds of millions of pounds technical decision that ENIC get wrong on the regular and get paid to fuck up.

If ENIC did hire Pep, Klopp, or Slot, they would have the exact same problems as Ange, Poch, and Conte by the way.

That is not a hypothetical to me.

FSG leapfrogged us while we dicked about with N'Dombele and Lo Celso — another time I said the signings were wrong for what we needed most (a DM and a RB), before they happened.

I've always been willing to bet it against anybody who claims what I am saying is hypothetical.

There are some of us who see some of these key things before they happen, like selecting Harry Kane to start the CL final was the wrong decision before it happened.

Due to technical analysis and stats and pattern recognition.

Yes, it is sometimes a 60/40 decision, but it is the elite end of sport and people are paid financially free salaries to do something wrong that ~40% of fans could do right more often.

It's complete bollocks.
 
HyNdZee said:
Talking shite.

I literally offered bets to everybody on this thread that Frank would not finish top 4 or win any trophy including the Super Cup, in essence never finishing higher than Ange did in his 1st or 2nd season.

This isn't some hypothetical.

Our ceiling is top 4 or bottom half and a trophy — has been the entirity of ENIC and will be.

It's another hundreds of millions of pounds technical decision that ENIC get wrong on the regular and get paid to fuck up.

If ENIC did hire Pep, Klopp, or Slot, they would have the exact same problems as Ange, Poch, and Conte by the way.

That is not a hypothetical to me.

FSG leapfrogged us while we dicked about with N'Dombele and Lo Celso — another time I said the signings were wrong for what we needed most (a DM and a RB), before they happened.

I've always been willing to bet it against anybody who claims what I am saying is hypothetical.

There are some of us who see some of these key things before they happen, like selecting Harry Kane to start the CL final was the wrong decision before it happened.

Due to technical analysis and stats and pattern recognition.

Yes, it is sometimes a 60/40 decision, but it is the elite end of sport and people are paid financially free salaries to do something wrong that ~40% of fans could do right more often.

It's complete bollocks.
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I think you're right about ENIC under Levy - he never had any real ambition to push on and compete for the top honours which naturally limited our ceiling. The trophy for Levy was always top 4.

I think the jury's still out on the Lewis kids & co. It could well just be more of the same, or they simply fatten us up for a sale, but I suspect they'll spend a bit higher on wages and splurge more than Levy was ever comfortable doing. Will it be enough to meaningfully change our status and compete with the top clubs, though? Probably not unless they hire some very smart people to run the footballing side behind the scenes.

For me that's the key thing in the next 6 months. Do we finally instill a long term footballing vision or is it just more reactionary twatting about between conflicting projects and ideas, wasting hundreds of millions along the way.
 
Timberwolf said:
I think the jury's still out on the Lewis kids & co. It could well just be more of the same, or they simply fatten us up for a sale, but I suspect they'll spend a bit higher on wages and splurge more than Levy was ever comfortable doing.
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Here's the thing. Joe Lewis and co. / ENIC were hiding behind Levy, just as much as Levy was hiding behind all of the recruitment staff and managers that he prematurely fired.

I said when Ange was sacked that Levy is where I'd turn my attention to, not Frank. Now that Levy is gone, ENIC and Lewis and co. are where that same attention goes, not any new CEO.

It doesn't matter how badly any new CEO and manager do because ENIC and Lewis and co. are now directly responsible.
 
HyNdZee said:
Here's the thing. Joe Lewis and co. / ENIC were hiding behind Levy, just as much as Levy was hiding behind all of the recruitment staff and managers that he prematurely fired.

I said when Ange was sacked that Levy is where I'd turn my attention to, not Frank. Now that Levy is gone, ENIC and Lewis and co. are where that same attention goes, not any new CEO.

It doesn't matter how badly any new CEO and manager do because ENIC and Lewis and co. are now directly responsible.
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True although a think a key factor was that Joe simply didn't give a fuck and let Levy run the club like his personal family business. As long as Levy didn't burn the club down and tank his overall investment, Joe couldn't have cared less.

Now Joe's gone senile and the kids are in control we don't really know what their intentions/ambitions are yet, hence I think things may be different. But yes, now they've taken direct control they've got nowhere to hide anymore.
 
Ange has gone.

We really need to move on from any comparisons, as they are moot. What is obvious to many/most fans is that the football we are watching is anything but inspiring. Frank is done. I wasn't in his camp, but when appointed, I wished him well. All the lovely analytics mean zip when you look at our performances.

In addition to our turgid football, is he the man to attract signings? I doubt it.
 
Tottenham Massive said:
Aston, as you call them, have probably reached their ceiling given their infrastructure and resources. You would think the trajectory can only head one way from here.

We, on the other hand, should be able to offer him so much more opportunity moving forward with a far greater infrastructure, much higher revenue, and a far bigger global fan base to support it.

Key word here being 'should '

Because we all know that we won't.
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Climbed down from Klopp finally.

You're still not quite there with Emery.

Nearly there.

Macch said:
He’s been speaking like someone looking to get sacked for weeks now.
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Owners need to start putting in clauses in contracts to protect from what Frank and Amorim are doing basically saying they won't quit so they can get their handsome severance despite their performance not being good enough.

Something like you only get your full severance if sacked with a certain average point gain or win percentage.
 
ENIC will only be concerned with 1 outcome this season - finishing in the top 5. For all the shit form, Spurs are only 4 points off 5th, with only Woolwich really looking locked in for a top 4 place.

With United, Chelsea, Liverpool, West Ham in the market for a new coach, I don't think there is a realistic chance of Spurs firing Frank.

It's the 5th most expensive squad in the league, almost 1 billion. Excuses need to stop, and players and coach need to find a solution.
 
Papafeels said:
This is absolute gas haha so you go wayyyyy over the line insulting me, for me speaking against Frank, saying this would all hapoen, because ye know, it was fucking obvious. Now you're changing your tune, and reporting me for calling you out on it hahahaha

You're spare parts buddy, holy fuck.
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See this is the issue. I don't care what you think about Frank, you habe a right to have an opinion. So why lie?

It's the lies and misrepresentation of what other posters say

And to me, that just makes you a scummy person.
 
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