Tonight has really opened my eyes to the issues we face.

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Incomplete_usernam

Incomplete_usernam

For months now I have been saying that Pochettino was the reason behind our terrible form, poor tactics, losing the players, training burning them out etc.

Then tonight rolled around...new manager and yet again, we start the game and I am thinking "what the fuck are we doing tactically here? We are all over the place!"

Honestly, you could have told me Poch was still in charge and I would have believed you.

United are utterly diabolical and yet we made them look like City or Liverpool at times, surely two managers in a row can't be making the exact same mistakes can they?

Well the answer is, no, I don't think they are.

I think the players are making the same mistakes and by mistakes I mean, being lazy and not showing the right attitude and some of them in that dressing room need a rocket firing up them quite frankly because it's fucking me off.

I don't know if they have just all lost confidence or if they think they don't need to apply themselves anymore or what, I really don't know what the issue is at this point, are our players just seriously overrated because of what our previous manager achieved with them? Because watching that game tonight has pissed me off like no other before, we fucking stank the place out, other than one piece of utter magic from Dele that was, frankly, rancid.

I think looking at Dele after the final whistle he genuinely looked torn up and I think it's because he feels guilty about what happened to Poch and more importantly he knows the attitude wasn't right from some of our players and maybe that is the crux of the issue here.

Mourinho was honest as well, he gave them clear instructions and they failed to follow them, I don't know what it's going to take for this group of players to understand that you can't just turn up to games and expect to win with a half arsed performance, doesn't matter how shit the other team are on paper, if you're attitude isn't right then you will not win.

I keep hearing "the humble one" thrown around, right now we need the old Jose, we need some fire in that dressing room to seperate the cowards from the ones who really want to stay here and fight to make this club one of the greats in world football.

Otherwise, well, we have a very long road ahead of us and one that maybe even Jose can't fix without spending to remove the ones that lack the spine for the job.

Am I kneejerking here? Genuine question? Or is this deeper than just a manager being the issue?
 
Incomplete_usernam said:
For months now I have been saying that Pochettino was the reason behind our terrible form, poor tactics, losing the players, training burning them out etc.

Then tonight rolled around...new manager and yet again, we start the game and I am thinking "what the fuck are we doing tactically here? We are all over the place!"

Honestly, you could have told me Poch was still in charge and I would have believed you.

United are utterly diabolical and yet we made them look like City or Liverpool at times, surely two managers in a row can't be making the exact same mistakes can they?

Well the answer is, no, I don't think they are.

I think the players are making the same mistakes and by mistakes I mean, being lazy and not showing the right attitude and some of them in that dressing room need a rocket firing up them quite frankly because it's fucking me off.

I don't know if they have just all lost confidence or if they think they don't need to apply themselves anymore or what, I really don't know what the issue is at this point, are our players just seriously overrated because of what our previous manager achieved with them? Because watching that game tonight has pissed me off like no other before, we fucking stank the place out, other than one piece of utter magic from Dele that was, frankly, rancid.

I think looking at Dele after the final whistle he genuinely looked torn up and I think it's because he feels guilty about what happened to Poch and more importantly he knows the attitude wasn't right from some of our players and maybe that is the crux of the issue here.

Mourinho was honest as well, he gave them clear instructions and they failed to follow them, I don't know what it's going to take for this group of players to understand that you can't just turn up to games and expect to win with a half arsed performance, doesn't matter how shit the other team are on paper, if you're attitude isn't right then you will not win.

I keep hearing "the humble one" thrown around, right now we need the old Jose, we need some fire in that dressing room to seperate the cowards from the ones who really want to stay here and fight to make this club one of the greats in world football.

Otherwise, well, we have a very long road ahead of us and one that maybe even Jose can't fix without spending to remove the ones that lack the spine for the job.

Am I kneejerking here? Genuine question? Or is this deeper than just a manager being the issue?
Click to expand...
Great post Incomplete_usernam Incomplete_usernam

I may have mentioned it before. But when the owners completely neglect our most promising team and manager in a generation by ducking out of two successive transfer windows it's bound to rub off on the attitude of the players.

Most on here won't acknowledge it, but the summer / winter of 18/19 has taken its toll and it'll take years to get us back to where we were before .
 
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Cant expect Mourinho to come in and win every game until the end of the season and play well all the time.

Tonight is a symptom of the issues that have festered for at least a year with this squad, a bad performance was bound to happen sooner rather than later.

It's still Poch's team not Mourinho's so it's not going to drastically change in less than 5 games
 
I’m not worried. Unlike Poch, Mou will simply drop people who don’t do what they are told. He already dropped Rose, one of our worst and most bigheaded players. After today, he will be questioning some others as well. Poch was too soft and too loyal to some of them, to win you need to be ruthless.
 
Shotgunofmichalebrow said:
Seen a fair bit of him at Under 23 and I'm convinced he'd do a job. I'll be honest its Skipp I don't get, all the virtues of Harry Winks with a 360 Scott Parker turn thrown in. He is way to slow to make it at EPL level it's why I'd try a converted CB in Tanganga over him.
Click to expand...

To me Foyth looks a proper top class footballer, great on the ball, defensively reads the game well, can pick a pass, quite mobile. All the tools to be a CB, full back or even DM. He just doesn’t have experience and is sometimes hot headed.
 
Poch was overachieving by polishing turds for years to a point people believed he had a world class squad. You could put the likes of Winks and Sissoko in Luton team and no one would raise an eyebrow because that's their true level.

Poch was a great manager that was failed by the club.

All of this is 100% on Daniel Levy.
 
That lack of intensity in the players was a criticism of them towards the end of the Pochettino era, how do you fix that?

"Working, which I'm not doing a lot of that work. You cannot work on intensity when you are permanently playing matchers every two to three days. You can work on other things, you can work on principles of play, you work on tactical positioning, but intensity, aggression is something you cannot work on."

"How can I work on these items of the game when I have to play Saturday again? I just can't do it. So it's has to be in time and try to influence the profile of the players and their concentration levels too, because today the throw-in is a total lack of concentration too. The team only reacted after Rashford had the ball and after he started facing the first defending. That was when we started reacting and before that is why we were not there.

"We need to work on concentration levels but the players are fantastic. Very good players, very good professionals. They want and they will."

www.football.london

Every word Mourinho said on fixing Spurs, Bale, Dele, Rashford and more

Here's every single word Jose Mourinho said after Tottenham's 2-1 defeat at Manchester United
www.football.london www.football.london
 
Incomplete_usernam said:
Am I kneejerking here?
Click to expand...

tenor.gif
 
Tonight was a real fucking eye opener. We need half a new team at least. Impossible to buy and integrate a new defence but it needs it. Midfield is a mess. Not sure how long Winks can be persevered with. I personally think he's dogshit. The front 3/4 were piss poor. Can anyone in this squad string 2 decent performances together. Is it that much to ask?
 
Incomplete_usernam said:
For months now I have been saying that Pochettino was the reason behind our terrible form, poor tactics, losing the players, training burning them out etc.

Then tonight rolled around...new manager and yet again, we start the game and I am thinking "what the fuck are we doing tactically here? We are all over the place!"

Honestly, you could have told me Poch was still in charge and I would have believed you.

United are utterly diabolical and yet we made them look like City or Liverpool at times, surely two managers in a row can't be making the exact same mistakes can they?

Well the answer is, no, I don't think they are.

I think the players are making the same mistakes and by mistakes I mean, being lazy and not showing the right attitude and some of them in that dressing room need a rocket firing up them quite frankly because it's fucking me off.

I don't know if they have just all lost confidence or if they think they don't need to apply themselves anymore or what, I really don't know what the issue is at this point, are our players just seriously overrated because of what our previous manager achieved with them? Because watching that game tonight has pissed me off like no other before, we fucking stank the place out, other than one piece of utter magic from Dele that was, frankly, rancid.

I think looking at Dele after the final whistle he genuinely looked torn up and I think it's because he feels guilty about what happened to Poch and more importantly he knows the attitude wasn't right from some of our players and maybe that is the crux of the issue here.

Mourinho was honest as well, he gave them clear instructions and they failed to follow them, I don't know what it's going to take for this group of players to understand that you can't just turn up to games and expect to win with a half arsed performance, doesn't matter how shit the other team are on paper, if you're attitude isn't right then you will not win.

I keep hearing "the humble one" thrown around, right now we need the old Jose, we need some fire in that dressing room to seperate the cowards from the ones who really want to stay here and fight to make this club one of the greats in world football.

Otherwise, well, we have a very long road ahead of us and one that maybe even Jose can't fix without spending to remove the ones that lack the spine for the job.

Am I kneejerking here? Genuine question? Or is this deeper than just a manager being the issue?
Click to expand...

Good post.

I am fcuking hacked off today.

Straight after the game I shut down. Not going to listen to the excuses or the reasons. Not talking to anyone at work about it. Head down.

I am not going to look forward to playing Burnley or how it will be fine as it was just one game.

Last night was the question and answer. We are rank average.

I await the next chapter with limited expectation regardless of the manager and one or two quality players.

The squad needs dismantling and recharging because it has well and truly run its course.
 
You have to be realistic as well as optimistic.
It was United at Old Trafford. Yes they have been poor, but they have lost just 1 game at home (Palace, first home game), conceded 8, held Liverpool to a draw, and raised their game for us too.

We have 1 away win since Jan, so to think our problems were resolved on the road due to clutching on to a 3-2 win in Stratford would be naive.

16 goals we have conceded on the road in 8 games. Only 3 teams have conceded more (17) - Watford, Villa and Everton.
To break out of the shit we have been, especially on the road - will take more than 1 win.

Don't get me wrong - that really hurt me. I couldn't sleep well because of it, mulling over individual moments. Yet I do see a positive in that it allows Mourinho to now be critical of the players in a different way as they didn't get away with it last night.

Since Mourinhos arrival he has given players a fresh slate, a new chance to perform for him. While we were winning - things didn't need to change. Keep picking similar starting 11s with the same formation. Great while it lasts, but it would always inevitably fail at some point.
Once again our subs off and on were based around our central midfield under performing. Winks, Sissoko, Dele, Eriksen, Lo Celso and Ndombele at got out there. Moura had one of those now familiar days where he is fucking useless. Balls were even bouncing off Son like I'm not used to watching.

Now his job starts. Next up is Burnley at home. You can learn more from defeats than victories - which often paper over cracks. We have a great tactician in charge now - he understands the game better than Spurs fans calling for heads to roll on the back of a 1 goal defeat away at Old Trafford.

That game did not make or break our season. Top 4 is still on. The teams above us will play each other to drop points - and drop more points here and there like at the weekend.

Rome wasn't built in 2 weeks.
 
We need to be patient and wait. We were bound to put on a shitshow sooner or later. I agree we have a multitude of problems to sort out - there are positions in the team where we need to replace the players and we will only be able to do that in the summer. Our mental fragility is another and this needs to be addressed for the following games. There's no reason to panic at this point however.
 
We don’t have a midfield. Last night we saw Mourinho try to address that by getting them to hit the ball long. Didn’t work.

We need a DM and to figure out a consistent CM pairing. I don’t think Winks or Sissoko should be first choices for that. They’re committed, but not technically good enough.
 
This is the reaction after 1 loss, Mo is in big trouble, people are expecting him to win the prem and or the champions league with this squad.
 
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