What Should Our Realistic Expectations For This Season Be ?

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BangkokSpud said:
Why create a thread whose only purpose is to create a negative feedback? If you wanted a discussion thread on what is a realistic target then say that ... heading it with "No Excuses" that's just lame ...

If Poch gets us top three and some decent cup action ... what more can we reasonably expect?
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The thread was NOT to create negative feedback at all. I was simply asking what expectations are now we are entering a season where additional squad members have been added unlike recent ones. As stated our achievements during that time are a tribute to Poch's management skills. He was however always able to fall back on the fact that he had been forced to 'make do' with what he had available if things went wrong.
My query was... is it now reasonable to hopefully expect an improvement to last season based on us bringing in new players or will it simply allow us to 'keep up' with the rest of the pack ?
My opinion was a POSITIVE one in which I anticipated 3rd or better and a trophy win. Yours was also the same 'top 3 and decent cup action' being a reasonable expectation for yourself.

The reference to "no excuses" was relative to the fact that Levy has now allocated funds for transfers and backed the manager's request to bring in new blood. This will be the first time Poch has had more depth and choice to his selections (injuries allowing, God forbid we have any serious ones) for some time and so are we able to assess him in a different light to when he was extremely limited regarding that area ? That was my reference to him having 'no excuses'.

I totally agree it will obviously rely on fitness and availability of players and no I naturally do not expect us to attain the same levels of success as City will enjoy. As we enter the start of a new season we quite naturally have expectations of what we think our team can achieve. I asked what those were. That is not negative at all and so far the responses have been positive and informative.
 
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bfwolf said:
Amen. This isn’t a soap opera. I personally find it annoying when people try to create these sorts of narratives.
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Totally agree it is not a soap opera and sorry you find the thread 'annoying'. I was merely trying to find out what our member's expectations were following the recent transfer dealings and illustrating the point that Poch had now been supported by the board and therefore could not use that lack of backing as an 'excuse' if our season did not at least match that of the previous one.
 
Borodin55 said:
Totally agree it is not a soap opera and sorry you find the thread 'annoying'. I was merely trying to find out what our member's expectations were following the recent transfer dealings and illustrating the point that Poch had now been supported by the board and therefore could not use that lack of backing as an 'excuse' if our season did not at least match that of the previous one.
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Sorry to snap you but I guess I don't see the point. Let's say we finish 6th and don't get any trophies. Then what? We're going to fire Poch because he was backed and there's no excuses? He's the best manager we've had since Bill Nic.

I guess the excuses vs no excuses discussion just doesn't interest me.
 
bfwolf said:
Sorry to snap you but I guess I don't see the point. Let's say we finish 6th and don't get any trophies. Then what? We're going to fire Poch because he was backed and there's no excuses? He's the best manager we've had since Bill Nic.

I guess the excuses vs no excuses discussion just doesn't interest me.
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No problem. I am not saying there should be severe repercussions if we fail to match last season and the manager should be sacked. I totally agree with you regarding where he stands in the managerial rankings and to be close to Bill Nic is the best tribute any of us can possibly give him.
My real query was... Is it reasonable to now expect improvement in our performances compared to last season or have the new additions simply allowed us to maintain parity with our rivals ?

I admit my choice of the word 'excuses' was perhaps unfortunate. I was simply trying to illustrate that for the first time in ages Poch had been given new players and so reference to a lack of support from the board could no longer be used as a 'reason' if things didn't go well.

To be honest I have never been more excited about our prospects this season than I have been for years. I am reminded of the magical Magnificent 7 era and all the expectancy I had then but this time we have bought shrewdly and strengthened the squad. I truly believe second place is achievable and the cleaning lady will need to buy some Duraglit ready for incoming silverware.

:coys:
 
Borodin55 said:
No problem. I am not saying there should be severe repercussions if we fail to match last season and the manager should be sacked. I totally agree with you regarding where he stands in the managerial rankings and to be close to Bill Nic is the best tribute any of us can possibly give him.
My real query was... Is it reasonable to now expect improvement in our performances compared to last season or have the new additions simply allowed us to maintain parity with our rivals ?

I admit my choice of the word 'excuses' was perhaps unfortunate. I was simply trying to illustrate that for the first time in ages Poch had been given new players and so reference to a lack of support from the board could no longer be used as a 'reason' if things didn't go well.

To be honest I have never been more excited about our prospects this season than I have been for years. I am reminded of the magical Magnificent 7 era and all the expectancy I had then but this time we have bought shrewdly and strengthened the squad. I truly believe second place is achievable and the cleaning lady will need to buy some Duraglit ready for incoming silverware.

:coys:
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Ah OK. Well I think 3rd place would be an excellent result. I think it will be extremely difficult for us to finish above City or Liverpool. The gap to Liverpool last year was as large as the gap between us and Newcastle/Bournemouth.

I also think the team's decision to sell Trippier and not replace him will come back to haunt us.

I think expecting improvement over a top 4 season where we were runners up in the CL is expecting too much. That CL run was improbable and may never be replicated in our life times.

I will be thrilled if we get top 4 again and then the cards will fall where they might in the Cups. I love the CL. The FA Cup barely interests me. The League Cup holds no allure for me at all. So I won't be one of those fans who is over the moon if we win the League Cup or even the FA Cup.

I want us to keep qualifying for the CL and making the occasional run in it and continue to build up our stature as a club and our revenue. In the end, that's what it takes to compete with the giants.
 
The other thing I'll add is that having gotten ourselves into Pot 2 in the CL is a big deal. It makes a meaningful impact in our ability to get out of the group stages. We need to continue having enough success to maintain pot 2 status for the years to come. In that way, CL success breeds more CL success.
 
bfwolf said:
Sorry to snap you but I guess I don't see the point. Let's say we finish 6th and don't get any trophies. Then what? We're going to fire Poch because he was backed and there's no excuses? He's the best manager we've had since Bill Nic.

I guess the excuses vs no excuses discussion just doesn't interest me.
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100%
 
prinmemo said:
Our players were exhausted at the end of the season. We had no depth. Couldn’t reasonably expect them to go balls to the wall for every game at the end of the season.
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None of our players played any more minutes that Liverpool's and they were able to keep up performances all season. Yes; world cup fatigue could have contributed here.

With Allison, Van Dyke, Salah, Robertson, Mane ALL playing more minutes that any of our players (Bar Toby, who is 29 years old)

Only Eriksen played more minutes that Wijnaldum, TAA and Firmino.
 
In the past he has said he doesn’t want the domestics and the PL and CL is all that matters.

He has called us title challengers, and spoken about joining the elite and winning trophies.

When the chips are down, he’s says we are just making up the numbers and we can’t compete.

This summer he went back and basically said we would be going strong in the domestics.

6th year and 4th is not enough. We need a trophy.....and before you disagree that last bit is his own words.

So no. No excuses for me.....you have teams doing shit and finishing 6th and 5th yet still winning trophies in Europe and the FA Cup and Carabou etc.

With Liverpool winning the CL, we are now the only top six team who has won fuck all in the last ten years. We can’t just be an eternal work in progress.
 
After six seasons with having one of the best Spurs sides of course there shouldn’t be any excuses but undoubtedly there will.

The narrative recently has been about the stadium rebuild and resources - well that is gone now. We have an amazing squad, the best stadium in the country and have just had massive investment into the playing side.

If some supporters are still unwilling to place any expectation on the clubs manager in that circumstance then you really have to question where their loyalty lies. It’s a completely unhealthy situation where you have so many in the supporter base who absolutely refuse to hold the clubs manager to account or place any level of expectation on him. It’s very reminiscent of Moyes’s tenure at Everton.

There isn’t any excuses any more - the fact that we are the only side in the top six not to have won any silverware in his time tells its own story especially when inferior Woolwich, United and Chelsea sides have.

It’s simple for me - he has always been the week point in the chain. He is a good manager but like his mentor Bielsa the hype and narrative does not match the reality. ( I cannot recall 2 managers that have received such praise that don’t actually win anything).

The sad truth is all he needs to do is finish top 4 and he will continue in the job - that’s the only pressure he faces from the board and from the majority of the supporter base. But hey what do trophies matter anyway? It’s not as if we are on our longest drought since the ‘30s.
 
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BangkokSpud said:
City have spent 800m more than us on building their squad ... we have no right to beat them in any competition and unfortunately they're in all the same ones as us ... it's like asking a Porsche GTRS to beat a Bugatti Veyron
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City spent vastly more than Liverpool and yet the latter won the CL and the former did not.

How have United and Woolwich managed to win league cups and FA cups in recent years in the face of such spending?

You’re playing the game out on the balance sheet when what actually matters is the players on the pitch.

To say we have no right to beat them when we have been one of the best sides in the league for the last 5 years and have one of the most valuable squads in world football is an absolutely ludicrous statement to make.

A team containing Kane, Eriksen, Son, Ali, Vertonghen, Alderwield to name a few has no right to beat such a side? Seriously get out and stop trying to make out we are on the level of Wigan or Portsmouth.

We could have the Brazil ‘70 World Cup team playing for us and yet you would still be arguing that we cannot compete because of revenue.
 
The Hood said:
City spent vastly more than Liverpool and yet the latter won the CL and the former did not.

How have United and Woolwich managed to win league cups and FA cups in recent years in the face of such spending?

You’re playing the game out on the balance sheet when what actually matters is the players on the pitch.

To say we have no right to beat them when we have been one of the best sides in the league for the last 5 years and have one of the most valuable squads in world football is an absolutely ludicrous statement to make.

A team containing Kane, Eriksen, Son, Ali, Vertonghen, Alderwield to name a few has no right to beat such a side? Seriously get out and stop trying to make out we are on the level of Wigan or Portsmouth.

We could have the Brazil ‘70 World Cup team playing for us and yet you would still be arguing that we cannot compete because of revenue.
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You miss the point - the thread is headed "no excuses" and that's patently false ... there are plenty of perfectly valid excuses that will crop up, one of the most obvious ones is that City have a squad far better than either Spurs or Liverpool, that's not even up for debate ... 11 v 11 we can beat anyone, 25 v 25 we're as good as most but City with their endless wealth have simply more depth.

Of course we can win it all, and I'm sure we will be trying, but if we don't then to say "we've failed" would simply be wrong. We have massively overachieved in recent seasons that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep aiming for the very top ... however not achieving EPL or CL this season would not be a failure, that's simply not our reality.
 
One big transfer window doesn’t change everything, City are still far stronger than us and Liverpool are still stronger probably overall.

We are better than Woolwich and United on paper but not by a large margin and we still have to intergrate our new signings properly which could take a quarter of a season.

Therefore if we win the league it would be an unbelievable achievement. However now that we have more than a bare bones squad I do expect us to give all the cup competitions a good go when perhaps it was hard in the past.

We should certainly be getting top 4, unless we get the worst injury luck.
 
I have no exceding expectations that would be shattered for CL and the league. Preferably 3rd and a good CL run. Everything else I would still see as a great overachivement.

In the Cups on the other hand I feel our chances grew, as we have a better balanced squad. Especially if Eriksen stays. With everyone healthy we can field two XIs that are able to beat mostly any team in England.
 
Assuming Eriksen stays, there are certainly fewer excuses than last season. We have added quality signings, we are back at WHL, we had a proper pre-season without the disruption of a tournament, Son will not be disappearing mid-season, etc.

Of course injuries can happen (and have already happened) but the squad is good enough to deal with it. The challenge for us this season is to be consistent, 13 defeats last season was embarrassing and to compete with Liverpool and CIty you can lose at most 2 games in a season. We have to become harder to beat, Poch has the personnel in the squad to play any formation and tactical plan he wants, now he has to deliver on the training pitch. This is the first season in a while where he can't point to anyone other than himself if things go wrong. The chairman has provided all the tools he needs to make the team competitive.

I think Poch himself has said that a successful season for him will be a trophy, with top 4 as the bare minimum expectation. We have to start aiming higher now.
 
It would be an absolute travesty for a squad of such talent to walk away few sasons later having won nothing. I think it would also be a massive hunch off Poch's back to break his duck and the trophies would roll in, imv. That first one would be special - mind you.

This is the most talented, balanced and 'deep' squad we've had bar RB since he's arrived - no excuses now for the domestic cups even
 
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