Where do we go from here?

[Igula]

Saying that Jose doesn't tell them to sit back yet acknowledging that the players still do implies they are not doing what the manager asks.

Yes he didn't explicitly say those words but it's a very simple logical conclusion to make.

The only alternative is to believe that Jose does indeed tell them all to sit back but then lies to the press about this after and instructs all his players to do the same.

No it isn't.

There is a difference in not executing what the manager supposedly says and ignoring it.

The alternative is that the players heard Jose say don't sit back and also have heard him talk about how bad mistakes are, how nothing good comes from having the ball and seeing their teammates sat for making mistakes with the ball. Now they have to figure out how to not sit back but at the same time not retain possession as their manager has told them how terrible it is to have it.

What Kane is talking about is the team having trouble executing what the manager claims he wants, not the team ignoring it and doing whatever the hell they want.

And all of this is still a giant leap of logic to suggest that they will then not listen to Potter or that them not listening to Jose now so won't listen to Potter is a reason not to change the manager.

 

[Micky Bubbles]

Saying that Jose doesn't tell them to sit back yet acknowledging that the players still do implies they are not doing what the manager asks.

Yes he didn't explicitly say those words but it's a very simple logical conclusion to make.

The only alternative is to believe that Jose does indeed tell them all to sit back but then lies to the press about this after and instructs all his players to do the same.

This has come about before - essentially it's the managers job to implement his way of playing on the players, if he can't do that then he's failed.

If after almost a year and a half the players aren't playing how he wants them to then he isn't doing the correct work on the training field so that the players know what to do in any given situation, that ir his intended way of playing is bollocks

 

[Sir Archibald Crooks]

I'd jack my season ticket in if we sold Kane to fund a Mourinho spending spree, fucking hell

Rudiger, Ings, Matic, Di Maria and Giroud not excite you?

 

[Igula]

Rudiger, Ings, Matic, Di Maria and Giroud not excite you?

You forgot Diego Costa.

Surely if we are moving on from Kane we need a stud like Costa to lead the line for us.

 

[iz futbal]

Levy ain’t going, the best that can be done is pushed to the side with a DOF. Whatever the issues with our defence this squad should be doing miles better than it is and that is on the manager.

I want a proper structure system like City have, I know we don’t have their money but to have a DOF with power who is able to shape the club over the long term is key. Jose will not be part of that.

The bald cunt would give the DOF pennies to spend with which we will buy more hojbergs and doherties and rodons.

 

[VonnegutBusy]

No it isn't.

There is a difference in not executing what the manager supposedly says and ignoring it.

The alternative is that the players heard Jose say don't sit back and also have heard him talk about how bad mistakes are, how nothing good comes from having the ball and seeing their teammates sat for making mistakes with the ball. Now they have to figure out how to not sit back but at the same time not retain possession as their manager has told them how terrible it is to have it.

What Kane is talking about is the team having trouble executing what the manager claims he wants, not the team ignoring it and doing whatever the hell they want.

And all of this is still a giant leap of logic to suggest that they will then not listen to Potter or that them not listening to Jose now so won't listen to Potter is a reason not to change the manager.

You're really clutching at straws here.

There is no difference between ignoring the manager and not executing what he asks for - the end result is you are not doing what you have been asked.

It's hardly a leap to suggest they could ignore or "not execute" - if that's easier for your pea brain - the next manager's instructions too.

 

[Blanchflower]

I'd jack my season ticket in if we sold Kane to fund a Mourinho spending spree, fucking hell

Not that I think he will / wants to leave

But the above is on the long list of reasons why it won't happen.........sell Kane in a terrible transfer market at a cut price > lose loads of revenue in season ticket sales > lose any chance of qualifying for CL football

The entire notion of selling Kane doesn't stack up financially, let alone in a football or PR sense.

 

[ILSpur]

He's got Fulham playing some great stuff but still a bit inexperienced for the job in my opinion.

This is ultimately going to be the challenge however we go forward. Aside from the few anomalies out there, most of the coaches who would be potential replacements are going to fit into one of two categories. You go more proven which is going to mean more pragmatic and fixed style of play, or we are going to get dynamic and exciting football but generally unproven.

 

[Igula]

You're really clutching at straws here.

There is no difference between ignoring the manager and not executing what he asks for - the end result is you are not doing what you have been asked.

It's hardly a leap to suggest they could ignore or "not execute" - if that's easier for your pea brain - the next manager's instructions too.

I am not clutching at straws at all, you claiming that Son and Kane wouldn't listen to a new manager is cluthcing.

There is a massive difference in ignoring what the manager says and not being able to execute it, if you can't see that its your problem. If Kane wasn't listening to Jose he would have said that Jose said don't sit back and I told him to fuck off. That is ignoring the manager. Not what Kane said.

If Jose tells them to score 100 goals and they don't are you claiming that they didn't listen to the manager now? Of course not.

The team sits back because Jose has set them up and drilled them to play without the ball. Telling them to not sit back after drilling them to play without the ball doesn't absolve Jose of any responsibility.

 

[Micky Bubbles]

This is ultimately going to be the challenge however we go forward. Aside from the few anomalies out there, most of the coaches who would be potential replacements are going to fit into one of two categories. You go more proven which is going to mean more pragmatic and fixed style of play, or we are going to get dynamic and exciting football but generally unproven.

We can negate this issue a little by bringing in a DoF - someone responsible for overseeing the direction the club takes on the field and then the managers really can be interchangeable thereafter.

Edit : don't know how i arrived at that point having reread your post as it's not really linked but it's there now so it's staying

 

[MemphisWill]

There is no doubt in my mind that we have a top 4 squad.
Nobody can tell me that we have a worse squad than Leicester, spam and Everton.

We definitely need a DOF.
But anybody who thinks that Levy identifies which players we sign are deluded.

Our scouting system needs to be changed.

Jose needs to go.
Shits himself against any top 10 team and plays negative defensive football.

Maybe Enic have taken us as far as they can, but they're not selling and who would buy in this climate.

We don't talk about it enough - its always Levy this or Mourinho that, but our scouting department is utter shite these days. We don't identify near as many hits as we do misses.

We need to buy a defence in the summer, no matter who the manager is. And we really need a succession plan at GK, asap. I don't care if they're called DoF, head of recruitment, or just the chief scout...but we've got to hire someone to do a much better job in identifying players to purchase. Liverpool and Leicester have fucking killed us over the past 5 years in that department - we're all basically shopping in the same store, but we keep buying the defective products.

 

[Notabadsquad]

People really think a new manager who plays possession football, like Potter ffs, is the silver bullet to all our issues.

Yeah I'm sure Kane and Son and Lloris will love taking orders from the ex-Brighton manager.

There is something rotten at the core of the squad in terms of mentality, Jose has not been able to arrest this, that was his job and so far he looks to be failing.

We still need a huge squad turnover, all the Poch failures need to go - Sissoko, Winks, Dier, Davies, Toby, Lloris, Dele, Aurier.

Kane and Son should stay as I think they have enough quality to overcome the mental walls - though I wouldn't be against cashing in on Son.

If we get rid of Jose we are effectively back to square one when Poch arrived although we have a better foundation and more potential to springboard. A good crop of young players and theoretically more weight to throw about in the transfer market. But we are still looking at another 5 year project - will our senior players (Kane especially) buy into that?

Jose's hire was the last attempt to squeeze some juice out of this beaten squad and maybe deliver silverware. If it doesn't work we may as well tear the whole thing down and start again.

Yep mate I think you make some well considered points.

I think we need a new manager but recognise completely that there are no guarantees of success, and for me that is being competitive for the top 3 in the PL.

To achieve that and within our resources will require a manager who adds a lot of value, sees us as nearly the pinnacle of their achievement and can take the players with them.

Above was Pochettino and the ask for Levy is finding the next one in my opinion.

Difficult to say the least as we are seeing. Mourinho I don't think is the answer I really don't.

And Kane - who knows but the club is bigger than him..

 

[Matt1882]

Until we operate on the root cause of the problem, we will continue to suffer the same painful symptoms.

 

[enfield1985]

You're really clutching at straws here.

There is no difference between ignoring the manager and not executing what he asks for - the end result is you are not doing what you have been asked.

It's hardly a leap to suggest they could ignore or "not execute" - if that's easier for your pea brain - the next manager's instructions too.

I suggest you watch the Leeds Documentary on Amazon where Bielsa set up their training sessions. The fact is you need to be incredibly fit to press and have a plan how to do it. Mourinho on the other hand gives the players days off from training as a reward, in general their are less training sessions.

There is no way we have the stamina to press under Mourinho. I am not even sure Mourinho understands what it takes to set up a pressing team none of his previous sides are renowned for it.

 

[Matt1882]

I suggest you watch the Leeds Documentary on Amazon where Bielsa set up their training sessions. The fact is you need to be incredibly fit to press and have a plan how to do it. Mourinho on the other hand gives the players days off from training as a reward, in general their are less training sessions.

There is no way we have the stamina to press under Mourinho. I am not even sure Mourinho understands what it takes to set up a pressing team none of his previous sides are renowned for it.

The pressing system can't yield long term success at THFC. It can't even manage it a Liverpool.
Even City at one point looked to wobble.

The difference between City and the rest is they can spend their way out it.

The reasons it can't work at Spurs are many, but here's some
1) It relies on extreme fitness. Once players get to their later 20's they need to be replaced. Kane, Son etc would have to be moved on for younger players who can keep up
2) Because we wouldn't buy ready made players, the ones we bring in would need to be brought up to speed
3 Because of 2, we'll always be in a state of building for the future

 

[MemphisWill]

Until we operate on the root cause of the problem, we will continue to suffer the same painful symptoms.

Well ENIC isn't going to sell, so should we just close the forum? No point continually talking about what will not happen.

 

[Matt1882]

Well ENIC isn't going to sell, so should we just close the forum? No point continually talking about what will not happen.

They don't have to sell. They could choose a different direction. One where Levy isn't god.
He's holding us back. And as long as he continues to do what he does, we will always end up 2nd best (8th) to the big hitters in the league.

 

[enfield1985]

The pressing system can't yield long term success at THFC. It can't even manage it a Liverpool.
Even City at one point looked to wobble.

The difference between City and the rest is they can spend their way out it.

The reasons it can't work at Spurs are many, but here's some
1) It relies on extreme fitness. Once players get to their later 20's they need to be replaced. Kane, Son etc would have to be moved on for younger players who can keep up
2) Because we wouldn't buy ready made players, the ones we bring in would need to be brought up to speed
3 Because of 2, we'll always be in a state of building for the future

Hi Pressing can work but you are right about the downsides hence why Poch tried to find a new way to play and we got the weird Diamond midfield which was even more knackering.

 

[Pzabbythethird]

Until we operate on the root cause of the problem, we will continue to suffer the same painful symptoms.

We need a root canal!

 

[BernardMatthews]

Jose's hire was the last attempt to squeeze some juice out of this beaten squad and maybe deliver silverware. If it doesn't work we may as well tear the whole thing down and start again.

I thought that about this appointment.

Keep the experienced players happy with a big name. It could yet bring us some cup success. It’s possible. Unlikely. But definitely possible.

After that? I think a rebuild will be needed and probably with a lack of funds, so a lot will fall on our scouting team and maybe a manager who can pick a young Player or 2..

I watched the Bobby robson documentary again today and the way he tells Barca to take a gamble on a young Brazilian kid called Ronaldo was inspired. How we could do with something like that.

So I hope Jose succeeds short term - ideally in the EL. It’s what the whole club needs more than anything. That push over the line and the CL football that goes with it.