Well said - some people seem to like underestimating us and our achievements.
-
The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...
Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports
Oh, raise your hand if watching the match yesterday required intensive negotiations and bargaining with your girlfriend/spouse/hired escort/mom, with your entreaties that 'Honey but your man Bale is playing' falling on deaf ears and ultimately resulting in you getting to watch only the first half and then having to watch "Wrath of the Titans" with girlfiend/spouse/hired escort/mom, and then not getting to finish the match until today.
I bet I'm the only one. :adelol:
I bet I'm the only one. :adelol:
Well said about the how well we played,but I'm not sure about this lack of a winning mentality. We just beat Lyon, a few days before we beat Toon, a few days before we beat WBA. If you mean lack of winning trophies mentality, then yep I agree with you, we definitely have that.
You may well be right that we go out next week against one of the best teams in Europe.
Yes they are an indicator and yes Lyon are one of the best sides in Europe. They're in the top 1 or 2% of European clubs, so I make that one of the best sides in Europe.
I'm saying UEFA rankings are are an indicator of how good a team is, right?
You'd expect Inter to beat Cluj and they did, right?
You'd expect Chelsea to knock out Sparta Prague and they probably will, right?
AVB doing his best DeNiro
UEFA coefficients are every Woolwich fan's favorite statistic for self-denial and comforting reassurance that they are still one of the best sides in Europe.
edit: They give you nothing more than a snapshot of expectations, and a fuzzy one at that.
edit: They give you nothing more than a snapshot of expectations, and a fuzzy one at that.
You'd expect Atletico Madrid to beat 10-man Rubin Kazan at home and they didn't.
You'd expect Napoli to beat Plzen at home and they didn't.
I do agree with you just pointing out that it doesn't really matter how high the team is ranked when it comes down to it.
30 yards? Really? Since when is the edge of the box 30 yards out?
Uefa/Fifa rankings are a strange anomaly, please don't get too carried away with them. They only give you a rough idea, (very rough) of a teams achievements. They are mostly based on retrospective results, which really confuses some people into thinking that certain teams are actually better than they really are. There are only about half a dozen teams that exceed this rule, we all know who they are. If you want to know who is doing the business "at this moment in time", you will get a much better ratings system either asking a bookie or trawling opta.
If Tottenham where competing in the French league, we would have a similar, but probably better rating than Lyon.
Tottenham are exceeding expectations at the moment, and I'm loving it, but please don't think we have got CL in the bag for next season, as I've said already, it only takes a couple of injuries to our current available squad for the wheels to fall off.
And before anyone says 'Negative', it's not, it's called damage limitation to what is expected by the majority of people on here. We are in a worse position to this time last year, yet most people think we are a superior team, we are not. Look at the stats. I don't care how we do it, I just want us to do it, the same as the rest of you. I'm just being a bit more realistic about it.
Blatent old cunt comment coming up, when you have followed the team as long as I have, you tend to side on the "proceed with caution" philosophy.
Lets be realistic about Euroland and the Premier, I'm sure that if we make CL this time we will see a drastic change in transfer policy, if we don't, then I'm not sure that it is all worth it to be honest.
Well at least we're in agreement.
UEFA rankings are an indicator
EL group tables
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/europa-league/table
Lyon finish above Sparta - UEFA computer says YES
Lyon finish above Bilboa- UEFA computer says YES
Lyon finish above Shima- UEFA computer says YES
That's 3 out of 3, 100% for the UEFA rankings, and Lyon's dominance of the group is a good indicator of why they're one of the best teams in Europe
They're an indicator nothing more nothing less, they show how a team has done over the past five years in European competitions, that is a useful stat to have.
First off Y7, thanks for a thoughtful post, raising many good points., Quite a few I will now disagree with
I don't carried away with UEFA rankings, I ask you in your turn to please not get carried away with disregarding them
They're not a very rough indicator of a team's achievements, they're much better than that, indeed they're a fairly good indicator of a team's achievements in the recent past.
I agree that some stats may be better for current status than the UEFA ones, but some may not be. Bookie's odds for example when it comes to Europe are often a poor indicator, because many British punters know very little about continental teams and the odds tend to be unrealistically poor on English teams
I bet Toon were favourites to beat Metalist last night for example.
the question about how we'd do in the French lge is completely hypothetical and for me invalid - if we were in the French lge we wouldn't have the Prem money so there's no guarantee at all we'd be going as well or better than Lyon
I don't think we have CL in the bag ATM, do you?
We're not in a worse position than last year if you compare results to the same games last year, as so often with stats it depends which ones you use, I could you show you a few stats including the one I've quoted to show we're doing better than last season
I don't think you're being more realistic than me, in fact I think I'm being more realistic than you, if we're going to play that game
How long have you followed Spurs, I've been a supporter for well over 50 years, (I'm a fair bit over 60 so have known about Spurs for even longer) so I'm well entitled to the 'when you've been following Spurs as long as I have line' ..
I'm not sure what you mean about Euroland, but if you mean do I think we have a good chance of winning it, I say yes(the bookies odds will probably be unreallistically short BTW)
do i think we will win it,i say, no, because they are some good/very good teams in the competition including Lyon and Inter, so probably we'll stumble somewhere.
If we do make CL next season we may see a drastic change in transfer policy, then again ....we didn't last time IIRC.
On ENIC's track record we're more likely to splurge if in relegation trouble, because they can't afford to lose the cash cow that is the Prem.
Greaves-357 quote:
We're not in a worse position than last year if you compare results to the same games last year, as so often with stats it depends which ones you use, I could you show you a few stats including the one I've quoted to show we're doing better than last season
Simply not true.
After 26 games last season we had 53 point and sat 3rd in the table.
After 26 games this season we have 48 points and sit 4th.
You can't cherry pick results/teams played. You have to go with what has been put in front of you, and whilst I see your logic regarding corresponding fixtures, it simply does not work like that, for instance we will not be playing the 3 teams that got relegated last season, this season.
The only teams that are exceeding last years stats at this stage are (CL contenders) Man U and Chelsea.
The comparison that I made regarding the French league was based on an even playing field ie: resources/ personnel, being as they are. Lyon compete in a less competitive league than we have in England, therefore they qualify for CL regularly, as a result, they 'earn' superior grades, it does not make them a superior team than Tottenham. Until a better system is employed you will never have a fair or up to date way of grading teams. You only have to look at the FIFA international rankings to see what a farce the system is. But, it's the only one we have, so we have to put up with it.
As for the British punters not knowing much about the Continental teams, that may be true for the ordinary man on the street, but its irrelevant. The bookies make it their business to know, which is why you will never see a poor bookie, which is why when they make a team the Fav, it is normally based on current form and not the Uefa rankings.
Whilst it is fascinating to argue the toss about Uefa rankings, they are rarely a good indicator to a teams next fixture, as quite a few of last nights results will tell you.
We're not in a worse position than last year if you compare results to the same games last year, as so often with stats it depends which ones you use, I could you show you a few stats including the one I've quoted to show we're doing better than last season
Simply not true.
After 26 games last season we had 53 point and sat 3rd in the table.
After 26 games this season we have 48 points and sit 4th.
You can't cherry pick results/teams played. You have to go with what has been put in front of you, and whilst I see your logic regarding corresponding fixtures, it simply does not work like that, for instance we will not be playing the 3 teams that got relegated last season, this season.
The only teams that are exceeding last years stats at this stage are (CL contenders) Man U and Chelsea.
The comparison that I made regarding the French league was based on an even playing field ie: resources/ personnel, being as they are. Lyon compete in a less competitive league than we have in England, therefore they qualify for CL regularly, as a result, they 'earn' superior grades, it does not make them a superior team than Tottenham. Until a better system is employed you will never have a fair or up to date way of grading teams. You only have to look at the FIFA international rankings to see what a farce the system is. But, it's the only one we have, so we have to put up with it.
As for the British punters not knowing much about the Continental teams, that may be true for the ordinary man on the street, but its irrelevant. The bookies make it their business to know, which is why you will never see a poor bookie, which is why when they make a team the Fav, it is normally based on current form and not the Uefa rankings.
Whilst it is fascinating to argue the toss about Uefa rankings, they are rarely a good indicator to a teams next fixture, as quite a few of last nights results will tell you.
Alright spastics, anyone leave before the end last night?
People left at 1-1?