Chelsea v Tottenham Hotspur (A) Sat., 22.2.2020 (12:30)

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todd1882 said:
Poch is no longer here Sammy and you disagreed with the 2 years (even though it is your blatant misrepresentation of Poch's point and the undead strawman you continually throw up) so actually it should be that thinks the new guys should be tearing it up.


Nope, could you help me?
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Isn’t it funny that when people don’t want to disagree with someone they like, they claim the words are misrepresented.

Ok explain to me what Pochettino meant when he said it could take two years for new players not show their true quality.
Obviously there is some other explanation so let’s hear it.
 
todd1882 said:
Bullshit. If this was normal employment ie that covered by labor laws there would be a hell of a case for constructive dismissal FFS.

So now that this BS premise has been harpooned let's see where you go from here...


As they had for the last 4-5 seasons around that time under Poch so until you show some statistical analysis showing some difference not due to chance then this statement means little. Anyone could say Poch would have done the same based on history/evidence.


Yeah, Levy is already making 'no money' noises...and Mou is already complaining about that which everyone and their brother already knew.



And that passiveness in big games comes from knowing you don't have enough firepower to actually win. Each time we got close and lost we needed new blood (and didn't get it). Continued losing at the last hurdle can only go on for so long.

It is going to be a long, cold winter...
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I don't know if the labour laws are the same over here. Any lawyers on the forum?
 
sammyspurs said:
Ok explain to me what Pochettino meant when he said it could take two years for new players not show their true quality.
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C'mon Sammy. Surely you know this. I know it helps your narratives but surely you understand this. To not understand this would mean either you know nothing of football, are being willfully ignorant, or are stupid...or some perfect storm of the 3.

Now, I know you know a little about football and I appreciate your posts and don't feel you stupid...but I do know you like the willful ignorance stance so I know you understand that as folks get more comfortable in their surroundings they venture further out of their comfort zones, players take on more responsibility and more risks and feel entitled to do so. It's basic human behavior and beyond that you have the learning of other player's qualities.

It took Modric into his 3rd actual season before his 'true quality' began to show and into his 5th before getting the actual recognition of being RM's best player. Notice Zidane always talks about Ronaldo and Modric...he knows. In his first season the other players 'froze him out'. Over time that went away after he became one of them and they began to trust him. It's 'true quality' and not just 'quality' Sammy.

It took Sonny how many seasons Sammy? Did Dele's production improve over 2 seasons? What was our best season under Poch? Seems 2-3 seasons looks pretty good when you use your brain doesn't it?

Make it harder next time Sammy. suck it.
 
todd1882 said:
C'mon Sammy. Surely you know this. I know it helps your narratives but surely you understand this. To not understand this would mean either you know nothing of football, are being willfully ignorant, or are stupid...or some perfect storm of the 3.

Now, I know you know a little about football and I appreciate your posts and don't feel you stupid...but I do know you like the willful ignorance stance so I know you understand that as folks get more comfortable in their surroundings they venture further out of their comfort zones, players take on more responsibility and more risks and feel entitled to do so. It's basic human behavior and beyond that you have the learning of other player's qualities.

It took Modric into his 3rd actual season before his 'true quality' began to show and into his 5th before getting the actual recognition of being RM's best player. Notice Zidane always talks about Ronaldo and Modric...he knows. In his first season the other players 'froze him out'. Over time that went away after he became one of them and they began to trust him. It's 'true quality' and not just 'quality' Sammy.

It took Sonny how many seasons Sammy? Did Dele's production improve over 2 seasons? What was our best season under Poch? Seems 2-3 seasons looks pretty good when you use your brain doesn't it?

Make it harder next time Sammy. suck it.
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Sorry did you just use Dele as an example of a player blooming over time?
Dele was cack after two seasons
 
Spaniel said:
I don't know if the labour laws are the same over here. Any lawyers on the forum?
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Not me. Surely yall have laws on constructive dismissal? But you get my point though right? Going TWs without players, having X number in last year of contract and wanting out and getting fired first sign of danger after geting to CL final with this mob. Only to be replaced by the shiny object the chairman has been chasing for years. Looks fishy.
 
sammyspurs said:
Sorry did you just use Dele as an example of a player blooming over time?
Dele was cack after two seasons
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Uhhh, there was more to that post Sammy...and most of it tore down your 'two years' narrative. Let's focus so you don't run it out again in such a disingenuous fashion when I'm not around to pull you up on it.

But to shoot this down, most folks on here think Dele + goals = world class. And didn't he have his greatest tally in his second season ie >20 goals? That would be an improvement over his first season wouldn't it Sammy? I always thought Lampard was a shit footballer and if Dele is our Lampard then it's fitting I've never appreciated his game. Dele was never a 'thing' with me anyway. I've always wanted an actual footballer in his place. Seems we might get that soon.
 
todd1882 said:
Uhhh, there was more to that post Sammy...and most of it tore down your 'two years' narrative. Let's focus so you don't run it out again in such a disingenuous fashion when I'm not around to pull you up on it.

But to shoot this down, most folks on here think Dele + goals = world class. And didn't he have his greatest tally in his second season ie >20 goals? That would be an improvement over his first season wouldn't it Sammy? I always thought Lampard was a shit footballer and if Dele is our Lampard then it's fitting I've never appreciated his game. Dele was never a 'thing' with me anyway. I've always wanted an actual footballer in his place. Seems we might get that soon.
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You said I misrepresented his words then wrote 20000 words clarifying my exact interpretation of what he said.
 
sammyspurs said:
You said I misrepresented his words then wrote 20000 words clarifying my exact interpretation of what he said.
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If that's so then your's is a misunderstanding and not intentional misrepresentation. Ok then, I take back the 'not stupid' assessment. Thanks for clearing things up Sammy. :mourthumb:

edit:
todd1882 said:
It's 'true quality' and not just 'quality' Sammy.
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StripiestPilot said:
Who is arguing that we haven't been shit since last January? We have. With two different managers and with lots of different players on the pitch. We scraped some results under Poch and we have been scraping results under Mourinho.

The problems with this team are impossible to fix mid-season with our injuries and fixture schedule. You are complaining perfectly fairly about recent shit performances but the game yesterday was not even the worst game we've had this season, not even close. Colchester away, Newcastle at home, Watford at home, Sheffield at home, City away, United away, Chelsea at home, we have been shit in almost every game no matter who is playing. There are problems with our team in every aspect, mental, physical and tactical.

Poch warned of a painful season and difficult rebuild so why are you so surprised that it's happening? Poch warned of a tough season ahead. Mourinho warned of a tough season and it's been made even tougher by injuries. He may or may not have the answers but the freaking out because we are not playing well with a tired, unbalanced team is absurd.

There has been a massive neon question mark hanging over our players ever since their performance in the CL final. That was the biggest game in the history of Tottenham, the biggest game those players will ever play, and they never left the dressing room. They only seem to wake up for 15 minutes at the end of matches. Mourinho's flaws are well-established but you are talking as if he is playing shit football with Manchester City's squad. Maybe you need to consider that perhaps our squad is not really capable of that much more until some of the new players really settle in. Two managers have not been able to play high-quality football with these guys or even get them to start games properly.
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So basically you're saying it all goes back to Levy's TW's. The lack thereof.
 
todd1882 said:
No, what I'm 'essentially' saying is what I said but if you'd like a distillation it was that you were talking horseshit and our football is grim with no underlying signs of improvement. And just like those keen observers that missed it last season because they were focused on the results from the 1st half or the run to the CL final 2nd half you are making the same foolish mistake now by focusing solely on the result instead of the bigger picture. I'm hoping you are not expecting a different result.

One of the few people talking sense right now is Guido 🇺🇦 Guido 🇺🇦 and he's taking pelters for saying it amongst the peanut gallery. Our football is chaos with no signs of improvement beyond a few results that no one could argue based on history that Mou did anything that Poch didn't around that time.

So be my guest to miss again. It's your right to repeat easily remedied mistakes. But if the solution is "the chance this summer to plug some of the problem areas" with new players then that brings up some issues with your solution with one being then how much can actually be attributed to Mou and another being the fact that Poch obviously needed rid of these shit players too.
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Sorry. What's a "peanut gallery "?
 
bus-conductor said:
The table and the fact that Chelsea slabbed them 5-2 would lean toward favouring me.
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Yeah, but what's you eye-test tell ya? That table thing is a cop-out and you know it...especially since you love yourself some statistics and can see football beyond results (except is cases of certain players for certain positions but we'll leave that point for another time). And when was that 5-2?
 
Pippins said:
is there something ageist creeping in here. Is someone suggesting Mrs P might be in her 70s. I don't think that's right!!
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I started it by having a dig at his favourite player being Modric and I'll make no apologies for thinking that he was a rat-faced little traitor.
And no, I never saw Billy Nick play :)
 
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