In search of Mourinho's successor.

[Igula]

If it’s not defending Mourinho, you are actually saying our squad is no stronger than the Bournemouth side?

My point about Bielsa is, he makes players better and make them punch above their weight. Something that would be very nice at this point of time.

No I am saying that Mourinho did nothing to prevent the players from being able to go out and win. They had every opportunity to win the game but didn't perform. Its not Mourinho's fault that they played like crap it was poor individual efforts from the players that lost us that game.

I haven't seen any evidence of that from Bielsa but even if true I don't see that as much of a reason to bring in a 64 year old manager who seems to be a prick and unable to work with owners with zero track record of success.

 

[bus-conductor]

I disagree. Poch came a long way despite our lacking structure. Right here and now we could do a lot better than Mourinho, and it’s shocking knowing how much he’s getting paid for unsettling the players.

No doubt I would like all that in place, but with only Eriksen to show for the Bale money, I don’t know how eager Levy is bringing in a new DOF. I would love Rangnick and he would be the dream, but at the same time, getting the wrong guy in could be a massive disaster.

I think Poch actually did benefit from a structure (albeit a very transient one), but by proxy. Many of the important players that played a part in our success under him were brought in under some kind of structure, either when we had a DOF, some kind if head of recruitment or even Pleaty advising etc The core of his team - Lloris, Vert, Dembele, Eriksen, Son, Alli, Lamela - and add in Kane who was a product of what was a very promising academy pre Poch (which also produced players like Bentaleb, Mason, Winks who have all played a part in Poch's story).

But that structure completely evaporated under Poch. I think partly at his behest, I think he fancied he'd earn the right to be our Ferguson/Wenger, but it actually backfired badly. Our recruitment model seemed to change, and not until last summer did we start to really re-focus on younger profile potential again.

Which of course is a strategy completely incompatible with Mourinho.

Look, don't get me wrong, I'd take many of those managers without the complete structural overhaul, and hope that we gradually put some of the DOF/Recruitment stuff in place as we went along, but I still think the smart way to do it is put the structure in place, then recruit players and coaches to suit an ethos, if the coach doesn't work out, you don't have a squad of players that don't suit, you just go and recruit another coach who suits the ethos etc etc

 

[Gatsby]

Watching Fulham vs Cardiff, Parker is going to top as a manager. They play some great football and are so hard to break down.

 

[Gatsby]

I’d love Poch back after Mourinho. He’s got unfinished business here, he’d be welcomed back with open arms. I think he needs the rest he’s getting to get over the Champions League final defeat and to get his desire back.

I think it would lift almost all our players and we’d become a force again.

 

[reachingforthestars]

No I am saying that Mourinho did nothing to prevent the players from being able to go out and win. They had every opportunity to win the game but didn't perform. Its not Mourinho's fault that they played like crap it was poor individual efforts from the players that lost us that game.

I haven't seen any evidence of that from Bielsa but even if true I don't see that as much of a reason to bring in a 64 year old manager who seems to be a prick and unable to work with owners with zero track record of success.

And he’s done nothing to help us win. He’s got all his attacking players back and yet there’s no vision in our attacks. Only thing in I can see us do, is pass it wide to Aurier, and it kinda starts and stops right there. I think Mourinhos already lost the dressing room. Players aren’t exactly looking to enjoy themselves, and I don’t think they buy into the continuous excuses.

Oh the “track record”. This is again an excuse for Mourinho? He the best man for us because he’s so decorated? Bielsa is playing some nice aggressive football, and there’s a reason Poch and Pep are inspired by him.

 

[Notabadsquad]

I’d love Poch back after Mourinho. He’s got unfinished business here, he’d be welcomed back with open arms. I think he needs the rest he’s getting to get over the Champions League final defeat and to get his desire back.

I think it would lift almost all our players and we’d become a force again.

He would be welcomed back for sure. He did wonders to a point and then it didn't quite happen and that is something I really hope he has pondered.

Opportunites presented themselves and they weren't taken.

If Pochettino ever wants to get the accolades of the top managers he must learn the lessons of our failure to get to the summit.

On too many occasions we ran out of oxygen when we were near to placing our flag on the peak of success.

 

[Gatsby]

He would be welcomed back for sure. He did wonders to a point and then it didn't quite happen and that is something I really hope he has pondered.

Opportunites presented themselves and they weren't taken.

If Pochettino ever wants to get the accolades of the top managers he must learn the lessons of our failure to get to the summit.

On too many occasions we ran out of oxygen when we were near to placing our flag on the peak of success.

Agree with all that. He needs to change his mentality of ‘Trophies only grow egos’. What player wants to hear that?

 

[Notabadsquad]

And he’s done nothing to help us win. He’s got all his attacking players back and yet there’s no vision in our attacks. Only thing in I can see us do, is pass it wide to Aurier, and it kinda starts and stops right there. I think Mourinhos already lost the dressing room. Players aren’t exactly looking to enjoy themselves, and I don’t think they buy into the continuous excuses.

Oh the “track record”. This is again an excuse for Mourinho? He the best man for us because he’s so decorated? Bielsa is playing some nice aggressive football, and there’s a reason Poch and Pep are inspired by him.

Yep I have to agree.

Mourinho was the only manager at the time that could have stepped in, steadied in.the short term but mostly kept the players on an even keel. That lasted for a very short period.

Since then and I totally accept and recognise these are not his players but it is lacking.

The very least I expected was hardness, an improvement in psyche and 2 or 3 players to really play consistently well.

That's what hope does - disappoints.

 

[Notabadsquad]

Agree with all that. He needs to change his mentality of ‘Trophies only grow egos’. What player wants to hear that?

Indeed.

 

[reachingforthestars]

I think Poch actually did benefit from a structure (albeit a very transient one), but by proxy. Many of the important players that played a part in our success under him were brought in under some kind of structure, either when we had a DOF, some kind if head of recruitment or even Pleaty advising etc The core of his team - Lloris, Vert, Dembele, Eriksen, Son, Alli, Lamela - and add in Kane who was a product of what was a very promising academy pre Poch (which also produced players like Bentaleb, Mason, Winks who have all played a part in Poch's story).

But that structure completely evaporated under Poch. I think partly at his behest, I think he fancied he'd earn the right to be our Ferguson/Wenger, but it actually backfired badly. Our recruitment model seemed to change, and not until last summer did we start to really re-focus on younger profile potential again.

Which of course is a strategy completely incompatible with Mourinho.

Look, don't get me wrong, I'd take many of those managers without the complete structural overhaul, and hope that we gradually put some of the DOF/Recruitment stuff in place as we went along, but I still think the smart way to do it is put the structure in place, then recruit players and coaches to suit an ethos, if the coach doesn't work out, you don't have a squad of players that don't suit, you just go and recruit another coach who suits the ethos etc etc

We’ve seen some prolific figures leave the club over the last years, but I still think our recruitment pre Poch were terrible and a lot of hit n miss going on. Seems like our scouting/recruitment department could do with a serious overhaul.

Poch may have taken too much responsibility according to our incomings, but you’ll never convince me that he got his preferred targets. I believe Levy saw a great opportunity to save some cash during the stadium build, as he thought our squad was strong and could stay at good health for years. Even if Poch knew the players would deteriorate, and constant buying and selling players was a must, he probably couldn’t convince Levy at the time.

So yes, last summer was a good window, but we couldn’t fix all issues at once. Had we spent big the other windows like that, maybe we would have been a different place. Absolute mess we entered the season with. Uncertainties over Eriksens, Tobys and Jans future. Foyth, Sessegnon and Ndombele injured while Lo Celso had only started training after a prolonged vacation. I’m really not that surprised Poch was struggling.

I agree that a DOF should be in line before getting in the manager to ensure he fits the vision. I’m just very desperate to get this man out as I’m afraid the mess will only get worse by the day.

 

[Igula]

And he’s done nothing to help us win. He’s got all his attacking players back and yet there’s no vision in our attacks. Only thing in I can see us do, is pass it wide to Aurier, and it kinda starts and stops right there. I think Mourinhos already lost the dressing room. Players aren’t exactly looking to enjoy themselves, and I don’t think they buy into the continuous excuses.

Oh the “track record”. This is again an excuse for Mourinho? He the best man for us because he’s so decorated? Bielsa is playing some nice aggressive football, and there’s a reason Poch and Pep are inspired by him.

There was no vision in our attacks before he came. That comes from our team having such a lack of creativity and passing ability.

There is no excuse for Mourinho I think he should go. The track record issue is on Bielsa because Pep and Pochcan talk about how awesome he is but if it doesn't translate onto the field then who cares? Bielsa has shown little indication that he can get quality results on the field. Maybe if other managers like him so much he can be the teacher to the manager we do hire but as a manager he seems to have a lot more negatives than positives.

 

[reachingforthestars]

There was no vision in our attacks before he came. That comes from our team having such a lack of creativity and passing ability.

There is no excuse for Mourinho I think he should go. The track record issue is on Bielsa because Pep and Pochcan talk about how awesome he is but if it doesn't translate onto the field then who cares? Bielsa has shown little indication that he can get quality results on the field. Maybe if other managers like him so much he can be the teacher to the manager we do hire but as a manager he seems to have a lot more negatives than positives.

I think our players are underperforming because they’re afraid of the goon on the side-line. Simple passes looking very difficult the moment. Could we play a high intense game, that would take us far. I’ll claim that the Liverpool squad doesn’t hold a lot of creativity. TAA being their most creative player and Firmino maybe adding a little.

Fair enough you don’t fancy Bielsa, but if Leeds isn’t too screwed over by FFP, I think they’ll put up a nice fight in the Prem next season.

 

[Igula]

I think our players are underperforming because they’re afraid of the goon on the side-line. Simple passes looking very difficult the moment. Could we play a high intense game, that would take us far. I’ll claim that the Liverpool squad doesn’t hold a lot of creativity. TAA being their most creative player and Firmino maybe adding a little.

Fair enough you don’t fancy Bielsa, but if Leeds isn’t too screwed over by FFP, I think they’ll put up a nice fight in the Prem next season.

If those players had changed the way the play under Jose from what they were doing under Poch then I would be more onside with what you are saying but these same issues existed under Poch that exist now.

As for Liverpool they may not have a creative wizard like a Modric but everyone on that team can move the ball. There is not a single regular that would be considered a poor passer. When they get the ball they move it quickly so their attacks can happen before the defense is set. They also benefit from being able to have Firmino drop back and Mane and Salah being better scoring wingers than Son and Bergwijn are. When Kane drops back to help create offense i don't think we have the same threat up front that Salah and Mane possess. For us when you have guys like Dier, Winks, Sissoko, Moura, Lamela, Davies the ball movement gets killed because they are so bad at moving the ball quickly so the defense is back and everything gets congested.

I am not saying Bielsa is crap I have just heard a lot of praise for him and wondered why because looking at his resume it is not very impressive. I also think it could be he is a great fit for Leeds and does well with them next year. But I do not see a 64 year old, with mixed results and a history of confrontation with ownership being the guy who should take over for Mourinho.

 

[bus-conductor]

We’ve seen some prolific figures leave the club over the last years, but I still think our recruitment pre Poch were terrible and a lot of hit n miss going on. Seems like our scouting/recruitment department could do with a serious overhaul.

Poch may have taken too much responsibility according to our incomings, but you’ll never convince me that he got his preferred targets. I believe Levy saw a great opportunity to save some cash during the stadium build, as he thought our squad was strong and could stay at good health for years. Even if Poch knew the players would deteriorate, and constant buying and selling players was a must, he probably couldn’t convince Levy at the time.

So yes, last summer was a good window, but we couldn’t fix all issues at once. Had we spent big the other windows like that, maybe we would have been a different place. Absolute mess we entered the season with. Uncertainties over Eriksens, Tobys and Jans future. Foyth, Sessegnon and Ndombele injured while Lo Celso had only started training after a prolonged vacation. I’m really not that surprised Poch was struggling.

I agree that a DOF should be in line before getting in the manager to ensure he fits the vision. I’m just very desperate to get this man out as I’m afraid the mess will only get worse by the day.

Sure, our recruitment could have of course been better, and all transfers come with risk, but I wouldn't say it had been comparatively terrible by PL standards in general, we'd been punching above our weight, largely because we were making slightly smarter transfer business than the other clubs in our "sector" (Everton, Villa, Liverpool, Newcastle - even teams like Bolton, Boro, pre rich ManC were finishing above us in the early 00"s) but generally speaking, despite a lot of dud's, because we'd adopted the fairly smart approach of mainly targeting young, good potential, inherent value biased players - we could generally offload the duds and often make money.

It breaks my heart that we actually had key members of the current Liverpool recruitment analytics team here under Redknapp (we can just imagine what Redknapp made of Recruitment analytics and metrics can't we) years ago.

Which managers get all their preferred targets?

I think the last few years have been an absolute mess in terms of our recruitment, transfer (in/out) business, contracts and I think it's been a perfect storm of shite that all the key components have contributed to. Levy's made some mistakes, Poch has made mistakes, recruitment/scouts have made mistakes.

 

[spursmalc]

I backed Poch until the last few months of his reign. However he has had his time and should never come back. He got us close but Not close enough as we won nothing. It would be hard on Mourinho to get sacked after only a few months and I said I would give him to the end of the season before calling for his departure although Sunday will be a massive day for him and lose and I am not sure he can recover from it.

 

[ElTel]

He blew winning the premier league so you’re saying other leagues should be a cakewalk?

He has a better chance of winning something with Real than Newcastle for example

 

[sammyspurs]

If Poch comes back I’ll pass on the next five years

 

[Merl]

Am willing to be persuaded that Mourinho isnt the solution at this point but genuinely cant understand why people want Poch back.

The defeats to Bayern and Brighton this season were worse than anything I've seen for many years and our form was dreadful (champions league run aside) for over a year (no away wins).

Poch had 5 years and achieved a lot but he never won anything, I dont see how taking a few months off is suddenly going to mean he comes in and reaches a new level with this squad, which is in serious need of a major rebuild whoever manages the club.

He's not the only option out there if we move on from Mourinho and aside from Zidane this season at Real, I cant think of any instance when a manager returning to a club brought success.

 

[Claud601]

If Poch comes back I’ll pass on the next five years

Just pass backwards like winks and you’ll be right back

 

[1882]

Poch (like AVB before him) was supposed to be the modern version of Mourinho.... young, confident, likeable, worked the Media, and knew what he had to play with...

Unfortunately, unlike Mourinho, he didn't win anything in his first few years at the Top table... and THAT was where he missed out on the 'Special status'.

Now we've got a bitter and twisted Mourinho, angry at everyone, 'cos he's desperate to regain his 'Special' crown, but has long forgotten how to do so.... others have overtaken him, he's been rumbled, and he knows it... thing is, now we're saddled with THAT!

It really is like we've just started dating a 1930's Hollywood beauty on her deathbed... and wonder why we can't 'get it up'.... THAT HOLE closed long ago!
(sorry for bad taste analogy!)