Jose Mourinho

[Igula]

I honestly don't understand your point ?

If we're going purely on goals then the last 6 games we scored 15
That's an average of 2.5 goals per game, I'm happy with that.

My point is that we didn't create chances.

Your point shows why looking at stats alone is a useless endeavor.

Look at how the goals were scored. look at what we did when we needed a goal.

3 against Leicester were due to the fact that Brenton played a stupid high line with Wes Morgan and Ryan Bennett as part of a back 3. Sure if we get managers that are willing to do that every game we are set, but there was a reason that was the only game that went like that all season for us, because nobody else is as stubborn as Brenton to stick with their system when the roster doesn't allow it.

We relied on Chelsea to beat Wolves otherwise the zero shots on net against Palace would have had use finishing 7th and out of Europe. Do you think that zero shots on net in the 2nd half against a Palace team on a run of 6 straight losses is good enough?

0 shots on target, 0 goals against Bournemouth good enough?

Relying on a deflected off target goal to beat Everton 1-0 good enough?

Creating nothing in the 2nd half which started 1-1 against Sheffield is good enough?

Needing a 64th minute deflection and lucky bounce to finally score against a depelted West Ham team is good enough?

Needing a outrageously terrible Maguire defensive play and weak goal by De Gea to get our one chance against United is good enough?

Again you can post all the stats you want but they are useless on their own, feel free to take a look at the games and what actually happened. Look at all the times we needed a goal and couldn't get it. Look at how many times we played weak opponents, WH, Bournemouth, Everton, Palace and struggled desperately to score against them.

The team was pathetic at creating chances and so reliant on Son, Kane and GLC. They are the only 3 in the whole line-up that can create anything. We get nothing from our tactics to create anything either so if these three can't create plays out of nothing we are fucked.

 

[stevee]

You won't prove me wrong because there is no creativity.

If the facts show we created , let's say 90 chances in the last six matches (I've no idea) AND scored an average of 2.16 goals per game, then in your opinion that's BS and we have no creativity.

Then there's no point having a discussion then. I'm perfectly willing as I said previously, to accept that I may be wrong. Hence why I wanted to see the actual figures. You, on the other hand, seem to be of the opinion that just because that's how you perceive things it must be true.

 

[Igula]

Also another interesting angle is I remember having 40 shots against West Ham under Poch and drawing 1-1 when they had 3.

Is that better?
Remember the Leicester season against them at WHL....26 shots lose 1-0.

A real reoccurring feature of Pochs tenure

Depends on what you are talking about being better?

If the 40 shots are better quality and we are talking about creating chances then yes it is better. If the shots are lower quality and we are talking about creating chances then it is worse.

If you are talking about the end result and only the end result then the number of shots doesn't matter.

But again just looking at shots alone is a very useless stat. It tells you nothing other than how many shots were taken which is useless on its own.

 

[Igula]

If the facts show we created , let's say 90 chances in the last six matches (I've no idea) AND scored an average of 2.16 goals per game, then in your opinion that's BS and we have no creativity.

Then there's no point having a discussion then. I'm perfectly willing as I said previously, to accept that I may be wrong. Hence why I wanted to see the actual figures. You, on the other hand, seem to be of the opinion that just because that's how you perceive things it must be true.

What are you using as your definition of created?

I just laid out the truth about what happened in the majority of the games we had since the break.

Do you disagree that we struggled to create against Everton, West Ham, Bournemouth, Palace, United, Sheffield United?

Maybe we have different views on what it means to create chances but I think in those games mentioned above there is zero doubt that we struggled big time. It was the talk of the media, talk of fans, talk on twitter, talk on podcasts. Everyone mentioned how much a struggle it was for us to create in those games.

As mentioned even in our "big" offensive games like Leicester you can see how unlikely it is for us to reproduce that result. Against Woolwich we weren't exactly creating a ton of chances and even against Newcastle it took until the very end to put that game out of reach.

Honestly I am shocked that there is even a debate about whether this team creates enough chances. It seems to be a fairly wide spread opinion for most people. Its why people want Ndombele to play/work out so much. Its why he gets so much rope because people are desperate for creativity in this squad.

I understand Sammy coming here spouting his shit because he is so desperate to make Jose the second coming of Christ that he will ignore everything to make him out to be great. But I think if you ask most sane Spurs fans they will all say this team is desperate for players who can create chances because of how much a struggle it was for this team last year.

 

[sammyspurs]

Depends on what you are talking about being better?

If the 40 shots are better quality and we are talking about creating chances then yes it is better. If the shots are lower quality and we are talking about creating chances then it is worse.

If you are talking about the end result and only the end result then the number of shots doesn't matter.

But again just looking at shots alone is a very useless stat. It tells you nothing other than how many shots were taken which is useless on its own.

Better quality shots mean fuck all if you score 1 in 40 and draw with a team who had 3.

Id prefer to take 8 shots and win.

 

[Igula]

Better quality shots mean fuck all if you score 1 in 40 and draw with a team who had 3.

Id prefer to take 8 shots and win.

But we are talking about creating chances right now.

Sure I would like to take zero shots and win over 100 grade A chances and lose.

I also realize though that in the long haul thinking that your chances of winning are better by creating less chances is delusional.

What I would prefer is to create 100 grade A chances and win.

 

[sammyspurs]

What are you using as your definition of created?

I just laid out the truth about what happened in the majority of the games we had since the break.

Do you disagree that we struggled to create against Everton, West Ham, Bournemouth, Palace, United, Sheffield United?

Maybe we have different views on what it means to create chances but I think in those games mentioned above there is zero doubt that we struggled big time. It was the talk of the media, talk of fans, talk on twitter, talk on podcasts. Everyone mentioned how much a struggle it was for us to create in those games.

As mentioned even in our "big" offensive games like Leicester you can see how unlikely it is for us to reproduce that result. Against Woolwich we weren't exactly creating a ton of chances and even against Newcastle it took until the very end to put that game out of reach.

Honestly I am shocked that there is even a debate about whether this team creates enough chances. It seems to be a fairly wide spread opinion for most people. Its why people want Ndombele to play/work out so much. Its why he gets so much rope because people are desperate for creativity in this squad.

I understand Sammy coming here spouting his shit because he is so desperate to make Jose the second coming of Christ that he will ignore everything to make him out to be great. But I think if you ask most sane Spurs fans they will all say this team is desperate for players who can create chances because of how much a struggle it was for this team last year.

Here you go again with your weird comprehension of words.

You saying “we struggled and created nothing” is less of a truth than me saying we created at least 77 chances to score due to us having 77 shots.

You haven’t outlined a single thing that refutes the fact that we created more than “nothing”.

The pod cast said we struggled? Ok, great source but the thing you’ve missed is that never said we didn’t struggle.

I said we created at least 77 chances in those games.
You claimed a deflected shot that goes in the net isn’t a chance to score.

You are proper weird

 

[Igula]

Here you go again with your weird comprehension of words.

You saying “we struggled and created nothing” is less of a truth than me saying we created at least 77 chances to score due to us having 7$ shots.

You haven’t outlined a single thing that refutes the fact that we created more than “nothing”.

The pod cast said we struggled? Ok, great source but the thing you’ve missed is that never said we didn’t struggle.

I said we created at least 77 chances in those games.
You claimed a deflected shot that goes in the net isn’t a chance to score.

You are proper weird

I think when you start trying to understand reality rather than focusing on the narratives you are so desperate to sell you will start to understand.

It is tough for you to see what is happening because you are so hell bent on selling the idea that Jose is amazing. You can't see the fact that the team was terrible at creating chances. That it was and is a major concern.

I bring up a podcast not as proof on its own but to show that everyone out there with half a brain and no agenda agrees that Spurs were and currently are awful at creating chances.

 

[sammyspurs]

But we are talking about creating chances right now.

Sure I would like to take zero shots and win over 100 grade A chances and lose.

I also realize though that in the long haul thinking that your chances of winning are better by creating less chances is delusional.

What I would prefer is to create 100 grade A chances and win.

So in the Poch game we had 40 shots, we didn’t create more than in the Jose game we had 18 shots?

Im well aware that you can create a chance and not have a shot. But having 40 shots would obviously be the minimum chances to score that we created.
If someone scores from 20 yards, did we not create a chance to score the goal?
No one took a defender away with a run?
No one passed to him in space? He didn’t fool the keeper?

To have a shot you must have created the opportunity to shoot somewhere in the build up.
And I’d like to know how many shots we take from outside the box, because I’ve barely seen any for years.

 

[stevee]

What are you using as your definition of created?

I just laid out the truth about what happened in the majority of the games we had since the break.

Do you disagree that we struggled to create against Everton, West Ham, Bournemouth, Palace, United, Sheffield United?

Maybe we have different views on what it means to create chances but I think in those games mentioned above there is zero doubt that we struggled big time. It was the talk of the media, talk of fans, talk on twitter, talk on podcasts. Everyone mentioned how much a struggle it was for us to create in those games.

As mentioned even in our "big" offensive games like Leicester you can see how unlikely it is for us to reproduce that result. Against Woolwich we weren't exactly creating a ton of chances and even against Newcastle it took until the very end to put that game out of reach.

Honestly I am shocked that there is even a debate about whether this team creates enough chances. It seems to be a fairly wide spread opinion for most people. Its why people want Ndombele to play/work out so much. Its why he gets so much rope because people are desperate for creativity in this squad.

I understand Sammy coming here spouting his shit because he is so desperate to make Jose the second coming of Christ that he will ignore everything to make him out to be great. But I think if you ask most sane Spurs fans they will all say this team is desperate for players who can create chances because of how much a struggle it was for this team last year.

I think I'm getting your point now.
Yes the quality of chances "created " are important . I think they are called XG ?
I've no idea about them either (Poch vs Jose), maybe someone like bus-conductor could help us out on those figures ?
I guess it comes down to a choice;
Less possession, but winning games (Jose)
or
Loads of possession, creating little or nothing, and losing games (Poch), CL run excepted.

I thought Poch was great for us, still unsure about Jose but am willing to give him a chance.

 

[Igula]

Less possession, but winning games (Jose)
or
Loads of possession, creating little or nothing, and losing games (Poch), CL run excepted.

I thought Poch was great for us, still unsure about Jose but am willing to give him a chance.

Except that isn't the choice.

I wish it was but we weren't playing ugly and winning under Jose were were playing ugly and doing meh. The paying ugly and winning is dogshit. We went out to Norwich in the FA Cup under Jose, went out to RB in CL under Jose and missed out on the top 4 under Jose.

We created and won a hell of a lot more under Poch than we have under Jose,

 

[sammyspurs]

I think when you start trying to understand reality rather than focusing on the narratives you are so desperate to sell you will start to understand.

It is tough for you to see what is happening because you are so hell bent on selling the idea that Jose is amazing. You can't see the fact that the team was terrible at creating chances. That it was and is a major concern.

I bring up a podcast not as proof on its own but to show that everyone out there with half a brain and no agenda agrees that Spurs were and currently are awful at creating chances.

Awful at creating chances isn’t what’s being discussed though.
You said we created nothing. That is what I have shown you to be fake news.

One more time, learn the words you use.....

Having actually watched those games I can tell we created nothing

That is false. That is what I challenged.

Learn the meaning of words you use before you debate with me. I find you to be slightly disturbing.
That you can’t even recall what you said ten minutes ago, even though it’s on the internet and even now there is a quote you will still defend yourself and continue to argue against something I haven’t refuted.

Here I’ll break it down.
We struggled to create in those games = Yes
We created nothing in those games = No

 

[sammyspurs]

We created and won a hell of a lot more under Poch than we have under Jose,

Are you comparing over Pochs 5 years to Jose’s 8 months?
Or Pochs first 20 odd games from 2014?
Or after a couple of years with his squad?
Or when Eriksen, Walker, Rose, Dele and Kane were all peak?
Or the first half of this season?
Or the last 11 months of Pochs reign?

What is the comparison here?

 

[stevee]

Except that isn't the choice.

I wish it was but we weren't playing ugly and winning under Jose were were playing ugly and doing meh. The paying ugly and winning is dogshit. We went out to Norwich in the FA Cup under Jose, went out to RB in CL under Jose and missed out on the top 4 under Jose.

We created and won a hell of a lot more under Poch than we have under Jose,

Poch got sacked because we were 14th in the PL and were shite since Jan 2019 under him. Our form was relegation standard.

Mauricio Pochettino sacked: How Tottenham reign unravelled - in numbers

He is perhaps their greatest manager but has been overseeing a team in relegation form - what do the numbers say about Mauricio Pochettino's Tottenham tenure?

www.bbc.com

.


"With 25 points from their last 24 games, Tottenham have been in relegation-battling form for the last nine months.
Only three ever-present sides have taken fewer points in that time, while under-fire managers Marco Silva and Unai Emery have both taken at least 10 points more.
Spurs last lost more games in a calendar year in 2008, when they suffered 19 defeats during spells under Juande Ramos and Harry Redknapp."

How the PL table would look if it began when Spurs appointed Jose Mourinho - Planet Football

Since taking over from Mauricio Pochettino at Tottenham, Jose Mourinho has got the club back on track and silenced the critics once again.

www.planetfootball.com

Spurs were 14th in the Premier League when he replaced Pochettino in north London but climbed to sixth, securing Europa League football for next season.

We’ve taken a look at how the Premier League table would look if it began when Mourinho was appointed by Spurs.

1. Liverpool – 65 points
2. Man City – 56 points
3. Man Utd – 50 points
4. Tottenham – 45 points

 

[Igula]

Awful at creating chances isn’t what’s being discussed though.
You said we created nothing. That is what I have shown you to be fake news.

One more time, learn the words you use.....


That is false. That is what I challenged.

Learn the meaning of words you use before you debate with me. I find you to be slightly disturbing.
That you can’t even recall what you said ten minutes ago, even though it’s on the internet and even now there is a quote you will still defend yourself and continue to argue against something I haven’t refuted.

Here I’ll break it down.
We struggled to create in those games = Yes
We created nothing in those games = No

I know what I said, I know the what the words I used mean and I don't need some pointless lecture from you that is factually wrong and pointless.

 

[Igula]

Are you comparing over Pochs 5 years to Jose’s 8 months?
Or Pochs first 20 odd games from 2014?
Or after a couple of years with his squad?
Or when Eriksen, Walker, Rose, Dele and Kane were all peak?
Or the first half of this season?
Or the last 11 months of Pochs reign?

What is the comparison here?

i would in all of those we created more than we do under Jose.

 

[sammyspurs]

I know what I said, I know the what the words I used mean and I don't need some pointless lecture from you that is factually wrong and pointless.

So “nothing“ means “struggle“ to you?

Silly cunt

 

[sammyspurs]

i would in all of those we created more than we do under Jose.

Prove it then.....you don’t think having a shot is a created chance, so away you go mate, show me the data with all the chances created from all those eras

 

[Igula]

Poch got sacked because we were 14th in the PL and were shite since Jan 2019 under him. Our form was relegation standard.

Mauricio Pochettino sacked: How Tottenham reign unravelled - in numbers

He is perhaps their greatest manager but has been overseeing a team in relegation form - what do the numbers say about Mauricio Pochettino's Tottenham tenure?

www.bbc.com

.


"With 25 points from their last 24 games, Tottenham have been in relegation-battling form for the last nine months.
Only three ever-present sides have taken fewer points in that time, while under-fire managers Marco Silva and Unai Emery have both taken at least 10 points more.
Spurs last lost more games in a calendar year in 2008, when they suffered 19 defeats during spells under Juande Ramos and Harry Redknapp."

How the PL table would look if it began when Spurs appointed Jose Mourinho - Planet Football

Since taking over from Mauricio Pochettino at Tottenham, Jose Mourinho has got the club back on track and silenced the critics once again.

www.planetfootball.com

Spurs were 14th in the Premier League when he replaced Pochettino in north London but climbed to sixth, securing Europa League football for next season.

We’ve taken a look at how the Premier League table would look if it began when Mourinho was appointed by Spurs.

1. Liverpool – 65 points
2. Man City – 56 points
3. Man Utd – 50 points
4. Tottenham – 45 points

We were 14th because of how early it was in the season, We won our next game and moved up to 5th.

The 14th BS is such garbage because it makes it sound so much worse than it was. It wasn't like we had just played a whole season and finished 14th.

Jose had enough time to get us up the table and instead managed to get us to squeak into 6th, that is not "winning."

Even in your cherry picked stats we are a distant 4th which is far from "winning" and that is painting it under the best possible light taking out context.

 

[Igula]

Prove it then.....you don’t think having a shot is a created chance, so away you go mate, show me the data with all the chances created from all those eras

I have already shown it multiple times in the thread by pointing out what happened in the games we played since the break.

Sorry reading is so difficult for you.