Dele

[The special ones mai]

Jose bringing dele back into the fold after harry dug him on a worldwide sports channel?

Its a win win for Mourinho, he brings back dele and if he doesnt perform he was right and if he plays well hes got the best dele..

 

[bonaspur23]

Ok, but in a similar fashion to sammyspurs 'hate' you decided that you loved Dele years ago. Does that make you "impossible to debate"? The whole point of debate is the points being made not a particular participants perspective?

What you are essentially saying is either the other persons' points are too difficult for you to refute or you're just frustrated that they don't give up and move over to your perspective.

Sammy is obnoxious and has been hating dele for years. get off his nuts.

I don’t love dele at all. All I do is call him creative and most of the time a better option than Lucas (which is saying very little) and all of a sudden it’s “I’ve loved dele for years”. Fuck off.

I was aware my original post was hypocritical but that’s how you speak sammys language.

 

[todd1882]

Sammy is obnoxious and has been hating dele for years.

Doesn't make his points invalid.

get off his nuts.

Struggling to find a point germane to this discussion in there.

I don’t love dele at all. All I do is call him creative and most of the time a better option than Lucas (which is saying very little) and all of a sudden it’s “I’ve loved dele for years”.

Ok, so let's make this easier then. You are supportive of a perspective opposite to Sammy's. That's fair I assume. But that doesn't make you "impossible to debate" necessarily...

Fuck off.

...but this does.

 

[poch's coat]

Dele is terrible. He has been terrible for ages. I mean really bad. Sadly just because we are playing shit wont make Dele any better.

If you think he is the answer I think you are misguided and not asking the right questions. There are many reasons for our poor form at the moment. Him not playing isn't one of them.

 

[Claud601]

The stock is crashing. Tomorrow is going to do nothing emotionally because we’re already in the basement

 

[The Swellhead Spur]

The thing with him is he needs to be more direct with his passing

He does that and he will be a star again, let's be fair we all want him to do well here

 

[5purs]

Comparing statistics for players often tends to ignore 'real-life statistics' to accommodate reason and logic

An easy example of this would be to compare the amount of times either Lamela or Moura have played centre midfield to how many times Dele played there

In fact, if you jog your memory from that time, one of the main reasons being posted on here for his dip in form was the fact that he'd been switched to the middle from his attacking position

 

[El Magnifico]

It’s totally irrelevant why and how.
The defensive set up is working, as proven by the fact we have the second least conceded goals in the PL, despite playing massive spells of games under pressure.

We have played 20 games and conceded 21 goals. We’ve also conceded 7 penalties which while in itself is a defensive error it also means that from open play we have only let in 14 goals all season.

It’s not more complicated than if we score more than we concede we win.

Id understand if we were letting in 3 goals a game, but it’s practically one goal a game.

If Son scores v Fulham, Reggie scores v Wolves and Bergwijn scores at Anfield we aren’t having this conversation. That should tell you something.

We aren’t getting hammered. We lost 1-0 vs Brighton. Where were all OUR shots though?

You are basically presenting an argument in support of Mourinho's approachto the game i.e. minimizing the goals you concede maximizes your probability of winning.

That doesnt change the fact that our offense looks average cos our defenders are poor.

 

[todd1882]

In fact, if you jog your memory from that time, one of the main reasons being posted on here for his dip in form was the fact that he'd been switched to the middle from his attacking position

That was only for people that judge his performances based on G/A output. It stands to reason that moving a player farther away from goal is going to drop those particular stats. And indeed it was often utilized by the apologists in support of Dele. But conversely it was never actually recognized or acknowledge that much of his production is, in fact, due to being the player farthest forward in our team. My point being if we put Toby up top with little responsibility his G/A stats would have been decent too...in those teams back then with the time and space created for you.

He's not a special player and never was.

 

[sammyspurs]

You are basically presenting an argument in support of Mourinho's approachto the game i.e. minimizing the goals you concede maximizes your probability of winning.

That doesnt change the fact that our offense looks average cos our defenders are poor.

No what I’m doing is suggesting that the defence and Jose are getting all the stick and the attack is getting a free ride as per usual.

Despite us having the second best goals against column in the PL.

The goals we do concede cost us points because the games haven’t been put to bed already. Think what you want about Jose’s tactics, but as I said, this conversation isn’t happening if Son had out Fulham to bed in just one of the four clear cut chances he had, Reggie makes the sensible choice v Wolves and Bergwijn scores at Anfield.

There’s countless other chances in every game and we will see it again tonight.
When we drew 0-0 with them, who did their job on the day?

None of the examples above are on Toby, Dier, Davies, Sanchez or Aurier.
However, conceding late on can well be because someone lost possession up front as per usual.

 

[sammyspurs]

Comparing statistics for players often tends to ignore 'real-life statistics' to accommodate reason and logic

An easy example of this would be to compare the amount of times either Lamela or Moura have played centre midfield to how many times Dele played there

In fact, if you jog your memory from that time, one of the main reasons being posted on here for his dip in form was the fact that he'd been switched to the middle from his attacking position

Isn’t it a bit convenient that the stat comparisons are ok when they are in Deles favour though?
Like Lamela and Moura have never played somewhere else or in different roles

His dip in form. Yes. Exactly, he couldn’t handle playing five meters deeper so threw the sulks for a year. Just what we needed.

For the record I hope he does well. Just I’ve heard about this renaissance about ten times now and it never happens

 

[sammyspurs]

That was only for people that judge his performances based on G/A output. It stands to reason that moving a player farther away from goal is going to drop those particular stats. And indeed it was often utilized by the apologists in support of Dele. But conversely it was never actually recognized or acknowledge that much of his production is, in fact, due to being the player farthest forward in our team. My point being if we put Toby up top with little responsibility his G/A stats would have been decent too...in those teams back then with the time and space created for you.

He's not a special player and never was.

Agree with a lot of that but I would take the Dele of 2016 back ahead of Son at the moment, and certainly ahead of Bergwijn

He was very special and that’s what people are clinging to.
I have had major issues with Dele for nearly four years now, but won’t deny what he did when he broke through and that was down to talent and attitude.
Said it years ago that the trouble maker was coached out of him, the attitude changed, we tried to mature him too early and lost the player.

 

[kingdawson]

Jose does what “everyone” wants him to and it’s still wrong...

most wanted it from a while back.

it shows how desperate Jose is when he doesn't play him the whole season and spouts to the media how its Dele's fault....then now decides its time to rely on him. When we are in utter shite form and can't fucking create chances.

 

[sammyspurs]

most wanted it from a while back.

it shows how desperate Jose is when he doesn't play him the whole season and spouts to the media how its Dele's fault....then now decides its time to rely on him. When we are in utter shite form and can't fuckinh create chances.

We can and do create chances but like many others you are of the opinion that if Son misses four one on ones, that means we didn’t create four one on ones.

Fairly bizarre if you ask me.

Kane is through on goal.
Kane misses the goal.
We didn’t create a chance.

Kane through on goal.
Kane scores.
We created a chance.

So basically it’s being decided if we created a chance or not by the quality of a shot.

Insane outlook

 

[sammyspurs]

And coming back to Dele and creating etc, I’ve just posted stats several times for him, Moura and Lamela that show he’s not creating particularly more than either in minutes played this season, last season and the one before.

If we’re going on 2017 then fine, but Davies was also doing well 4 years ago, so let’s build the defence around him

 

[kingdawson]

We can and do create chances but like many others you are of the opinion that if Son misses four one on ones, that means we didn’t create four one on ones.

Fairly bizarre if you ask me.

Kane is through on goal.
Kane misses the goal.
We didn’t create a chance.

Kane through on goal.
Kane scores.
We created a chance.

So basically it’s being decided if we created a chance or not by the quality of a shot.

Insane outlook

Are you saying recently we have created enough chances?

in the last 2 games I don't even remember us creating a chance....let alone a decent one.

 

[sammyspurs]

Are you saying recently we have created enough chances?

in the last 2 games I don't even remember us creating a chance....let alone a decent one.

Two games maybe your right.
But those two games wouldn’t matter if we had taken the chances we did create against Palace, Wolves, Fulham and Liverpool.

Because we’d have between 6 and 9 more points and you wouldn’t be as annoyed

For the record we had 8 shots v Brighton and 3 shots v Liverpool.

We had 4 v City, 2 on target all game and won 2-0.

There’s ALWAYS a chance to score a goal

 

[Team Tanguy]

sammyspurs you can't moan about chances Kane/Son are missing when they're putting up elite numbers.
That means you want them to score those chances on top of those elite numbers. YOU ARE DEMANDING MESSI LEVELS.

You'd have a point if Kane got 12 league goals and Son was renown for being wasteful. It's quite the opposite. They top charts and smash records. Do the weak links do the same over the course of a season?

Why are you hell bent on justifying the dead weight?
Jesus christ.

 

[Team Tanguy]

Two games maybe your right.
But those two games wouldn’t matter if we had taken the chances we did create against Palace, Wolves, Fulham and Liverpool.

Because we’d have between 6 and 9 more points and you wouldn’t be as annoyed

For the record we had 8 shots v Brighton and 3 shots v Liverpool.

We had 4 v City, 2 on target all game and won 2-0.

There’s ALWAYS a chance to score a goal

This needs to stop. It's not logical or reasonable. It's a remix of a gibbsy type train of thought. Replace tiny dancers with star players, and rugby giants with mythical perfect conversion players/Messi.

 

[sammyspurs]

sammyspurs you can't moan about chances Kane/Son are missing when they're putting up elite numbers.
That means you want them to score those chances on top of those elite numbers. YOU ARE DEMANDING MESSI LEVELS.

You'd have a point if Kane got 12 league goals and Son was renown for being wasteful. It's quite the opposite. They top charts and smash records. Do the weak links do the same over the course of a season?

Why are you hell bent on justifying the dead weight?
Jesus christ.

So you mean because Kane has 12 goals this season, if he blasts a sitter wide and we draw it’s Diers fault?