Paulo Fonseca (Poll Added)

[Guido 🇺🇦]

I suspect that a poll between Nuno and Fonseca at that point would have been a close call. Start one now and it would be landslide in favour of Zorro.

Why? Because jobless manager says he plays attacking football so fans that have no knowledge of this manager, let alone the brand of football he actually plays all vote in favour of him.

And yes, you would be right, our fans especially on here would do something exactly like that!

 

[Rocket]

Why? Because jobless manager says he plays attacking football so fans that have no knowledge of this manager, let alone the brand of football he actually plays all vote in favour of him.

And yes, you would be right, our fans especially on here would do something exactly like that!

No, more that because in this case it’s the devil you don’t know can’t be anymore eye gougingly dull than the one you do know.

Honestly how much of the football we’ve played this season have you enjoyed/thought we’ve looked anything like a decently drilled team/exciting team.

Here’s mine:

City (H): 30 minutes
Pacos (A): 0 minutes
Wolves (A): occasional passages (maybe 10 minutes)
Pacos (H): reasonable performance. I’d give the majority of the match from what I remember 75 minutes
Watford (H): 20 minutes?
Palace (A): 0 minutes
Rennes (A): 20 minutes
Chelsea (H) 38 minutes
Watford (A) 30 minutes

That for me isn’t good enough. So yeah I think people would say give someone who says he was excited to play possession based attacking, front foot football a go.

Right or wrong we’ll almost certainly never know. But the absolute dirge we’ve been subjected to so far is unacceptable as far as I’m concerned.

And it’s not even like there wasn’t a reasonable ground swell of reticence over Nuno’s likely tactics before we ever set foot over the touch line under him. Heck there’s even a decent amount of Wolves fans who saw their best league positions for decades under him who were glad he was no longer inflicting his game philosophies on their eyeballs.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

No, more that because in this case it’s the devil you don’t know can’t be anymore eye gougingly dull than the one you do know.

Honestly how much of the football we’ve played this season have you enjoyed/thought we’ve looked anything like a decently drilled team/exciting team.

Here’s mine:

City (H): 30 minutes
Pacos (A): 0 minutes
Wolves (A): occasional passages (maybe 10 minutes)
Pacos (H): reasonable performance. I’d give the majority of the match from what I remember 75 minutes
Watford (H): 20 minutes?
Palace (A): 0 minutes
Rennes (A): 20 minutes
Chelsea (H) 38 minutes
Watford (A) 30 minutes

That for me isn’t good enough. So yeah I think people would say give someone who says he was excited to play possession based attacking, front foot football a go.

Right or wrong we’ll almost certainly never know. But the absolute dirge we’ve been subjected to so far is unacceptable as far as I’m concerned.

And it’s not even like there wasn’t a reasonable ground swell of reticence over Nuno’s likely tactics before we ever set foot over the touch line under him. Heck there’s even a decent amount of Wolves fans who saw their best league positions for decades under him who were glad he was no longer inflicting his game philosophies on their eyeballs.

I'm not going to include quali rounds of the shite losers euro comp, it's a pointless exercise.

City - Bar the first 10-15mins I enjoyed all of it! I thought we were excellent, aggressive and countered numerous times which was fun. Thougherly deserved win. Style of play counter-attack, liked it as we aggressive pressed from mid-block and played through the lines (not Jose syle hoof up to Kane & Son).

Wolves - They dominated the game, controlling possession but we defended really well, limited them to shots outside of the box. Style of play not to my liking at all.

Watford - controlled the game, dominated possession. They countered a3 or 4 times with two exciting and rapid players in Sarr and Dennis, if these two stay fit they'll do this to all opposition they face. Style of play, possession but kind of boring as it always tends to be with teams who stick 9 men behind the ball.

Palace - Woeful game, hatted everything about it.

Chavs - Loved the entire first half, dominant, threatening without a ton of chances created, solid possession, moving the ball quickly and vertically, playing out from the back and through their press, aggressive in midfield and front 3, pressing high and pinning them back. The best half of football we've played for nearly three seasons(??) (I'm excluding the CL run here as those games were bonkers). Yes Chavs stabilized the half towards the end of it by dropping Mount into midfield but no team could claim dominance in this period it was highly competitive (and yes they created a couple of chances it's a game of footy FFS) 2nd half couldn't deal with the tactical switch of Knate coming on, we still competed until they scored, then they dominated and we didn't get a look in. Style of play - Like I said, best half of football (against arguably the best team in the world right now) we've played in years, loved it. Hated the result but I'm buoyed by the first half and I'm clinging on to the hope that it's replicated. If it is then we'll beat the vast majority of teams we'll face. My fingers are crossed for this.

How many of Poch's first 5 games did you enjoy?
me - QPR game, totally and uttley bossed it. Hoddle was brought in by Harry to play 3 ATB and we took full advantage, Hoddle was sacked and they dropped the 3ATB all season.
The rest was a really mixed bag, green shoots of a style began to emerge during the Villa game, others that followed too but we lost quite a few to some really shit sides. BUT the performance was the important thing, not the results, I could slowly start to see patterns in games occur.

I did the same under the dinosaur, looked at the performances, not the results, I was the only one not happy with how we played vs Southampton I thought we were shit and struggled, the result was good by hoofing a ball up the pitch over an obliging high-line defence for example but we didn't exert any control on that game by how we played with the ball and when Southampton pressed us and attacked us we were all over the place, just an example.

He's NOT had a team to select from as per my post, all first-team players who weren't present for pre-season and loads injured or COVID sanctioned. Plus there are new players to integrate.

I'm sure you must know me by now and how I enjoy my football played? I spent the past two years kicking the shit out of the worst manager we've had for nearly 20yrs for precisely this reason. I would be doing exactly the same with Nuno too, I have zero loyalty towards him. But I try to commentate what I see on a game by game basis. I am seeing organisation early in our first three games that we did see before. I'm now beginning to see some exciting football being played and against top sides too. I see, with the exception of the Palace game, a team working hard and one that's starting to press. I like these things, I see them as greenshoots, I see them as positives.

I don't know what to expect, I don't know if he will get us to play with a high level of consistency over a period of a game. I don't know if he will have us play in the manner I would personally like (I like a high pressing team, I think high pressing teams have a greater % opportunity to compete for stuff as evidence by those teams competing regularly for stuff) BUT I'm am seeing signs already of us doing this and he's implementing them faster than my favourite manager did at this Club who specialised in that style managed during his first 10 games, let alone 5.

 

[Matt1882]

Bottom line is, we sacked Mourinho because we apparently didn't like his style nor his availability to make shit players not shit.
Then we replaced him with a bloke who learned everything he knows from Mourinho but has about 5% of the special sauce.

And we're expecting him to last a whole season?

 

[AlabamaSpur]

Remember,Levy turned down this guy for Nuno

Say what you want about the strength of the league, but 27 goals in 6 games plus 5 away from home in the CL while yet again rebuilding his team.

For he, he was, is and will be the epitome of a Spurs manager.

He was my top choice, but ten Hag signed an extension the day after he interviewed with Spurs. He was trying to get a raise and never intended to leave.

 

[Skooch]

He was my top choice, but ten Hag signed an extension the day after he interviewed with Spurs. He was trying to get a raise and never intended to leave.

The day after he left reports came out in the media that Levy had problems with Ten Hag, seemingly not enough to put him off Ten Hag, just enough to not appoint him. Ajax saw what was going on and extended the contract for extra compensation. Levy and his top class fucking about cost us Ten Hag and Ten Hag has reported since that he hopes Spurs will be interested again in the future.

Look at the fuckwit chairman who turned down Nuno only to appoint him weeks later because some Italian dick had the hots for him.

 

[Skooch]

Bottom line is, we sacked Mourinho because we apparently didn't like his style nor his availability to make shit players not shit.
Then we replaced him with a bloke who learned everything he knows from Mourinho but has about 5% of the special sauce.

And we're expecting him to last a whole season?

He'll last the season because even Levy couldn't subject us to two fucked up managerial searches in one season and also because he'd have to fire Paratici and admit that was another monumental fuck up.

Strap in.

 

[JDM]

I was a wait and see voter on Fonseca, simply because I knew fuck all about the bloke. I then saw some videos and read some positive reports and thought regardless of results football should be exciting again and was pretty happy about that. I don’t think any managers get us into top 4, so for me I want to win a cup and play some attacking football in the league. I’d probably be happy with either scenario after the past few years, let alone both.

 

[Tomo]

Does this mean we are stuck with defensive non-Spurs football at Spurs long term?

 

[Skooch]

Does this mean we are stuck with defensive non-Spurs football at Spurs long term?

Oh dear, that does tie in with "Tottenham DNA" that Levy said.

And Paratici showed Levy a video of Nuno's attacking football?

We were sold a whole lot of Italian bullshit I'm afraid.

 

[Brian Fantana]

We win a game and then sky sports come out with this report (which we all knew anyway from the summer unless fans have memories of goldfish). It’s just them being shit stirring fuckers like normal.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Oh dear, that does tie in with "Tottenham DNA" that Levy said.

And Paratici showed Levy a video of Nuno's attacking football?

We were sold a whole lot of Italian bullshit I'm afraid.

Do you think Levy has a good track record of appointing football managers/coaches?

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

Attacking football for starters.

Did you even read what I wrote?
"Attacking football for starters"
You mean like the bit where I talking about a coach who has actually played attacking football in the EPL. ....WTF

 

[Sir Archibald Crooks]

Oh dear, that does tie in with "Tottenham DNA" that Levy said.

And Paratici showed Levy a video of Nuno's attacking football?

We were sold a whole lot of Italian bullshit I'm afraid.

It underlines what a shambles the summer was. You have Levy and Hitchen chasing their tail trying to appoint Naglesmann, Flick, Poch and interviewing ten Hag with Potter supposedly on the list, getting to the stage of almost appointing Fonseca who of course had no release clause. Then they decide to appoint a DOF who obviously has his own views. So i assume if we'd have appointed say Poch, we wouldnt have appointed Paratici? IMO they only appointed Paratici once Conte left Inter and they thought they'd get the pair as both free. The whole thing is a clown car of how to run a football club.

 

[Mick Cooper]

Todays Telegraph

Paulo Fonseca has revealed he started pre-season plans at Tottenham before his move was torpedoed by managing director Fabio Paratici's demands for more defensive football.


In a wide-ranging interview with Telegraph Sport, Fonseca outlined how close he was to joining Spurs, saying “the agreement was done”, but that the move collapsed due to Paratici wanting a less attack-minded coach.

Nuno Espirito Santo was eventually appointed as Jose Mourinho's successor, with the former Wolves head coach having already been subjected to criticism by supporters for a perceived negative style.

Fonseca insists his attacking instincts - shaped by his time with Shakhtar Donetsk and AS Roma - would have chimed with Tottenham's motto of 'To Dare Is To Do', but admits his move was doomed as soon as Paratici was appointed.

“The agreement was done. We were planning the pre-season and Tottenham wanted an offensive coach. It wasn’t announced but we planned pre-season players. But things changed when the new managing director arrived and we didn’t agree with some ideas and he preferred another coach,” Fonseca said, speaking from his home in Kiev, Ukraine.


“I have some principles. I wanted to be coach of the great teams but I want the right project and a club where the people believe in my ideas, my way to play, and this didn’t happen with the managing director.


“It’s what the chairman and the sporting director (Steve Hitchen) asked for. To build a team who can play attractive and offensive football and I was ready for that. I cannot be a different way. All my teams will have these intentions. In Rome or Shakhtar in the Champions League against the biggest teams, I’m not sending out my teams to defend near their own box.”


Fonseca, 48, has stuck to his attacking principles from when he started as a coach in the Portuguese lower divisions before working his way up and making his name at Paços Ferreira where he reached the Champions League and gave a debut to a slight 17-year-old called Diogo Jota.


Others who have improved under his guidance included Willy Boly, then Fred when the pair worked together at Shakhtar Donetsk.


By the time Fonseca arrived at Roma, Henrikh Mkhitaryan saw a comparison to Thomas Tuchel, who he worked with at Borussia Dortmund. “He is similar,” Mkhitaryan said of Fonseca, “he tries to put the players in the right position, to give them the freedom to enjoy the way they play.” The improvement of players under Fonseca is underpinned by his attacking football.


“All players want to have the ball,” he said. “They want to dominate. They want to participate. They don’t want to run to recover the ball. They don’t want to run without the ball and defend. The best way to defend is to have the ball.


“We have an obligation with supporters to create a spectacle, a good show. That is the obligation of the coach. I want to win every game but just winning is not enough for me. I have to be offensive and dominate the games and have an offensive midfield and show courage in the game. These are things which will die with me.


“It happened so many times when I got home after winning a game and my wife asked ‘why are you unhappy?’ And it is because I didn’t win the way I wanted to. It is not enough. I have to create a good show for the people who pay the tickets and love football. At least I try. I cannot be a coach in another way.”

What is likely to have appealed to Spurs chairman Daniel Levy was Fonseca’s diplomacy at Roma. He worked during a period of uncertainty at the club when the Friedkin Group secured a takeover and he worked without a technical director for a large part of his time in the Italian capital, getting the club to the semi-finals of the Europa League last season.

“It cannot be the coach creating the problems. The coach solves the problems and I believe when you defend the club with your heart, things become easier. It is a question of principles of life. When I am at a club I have to defend them with all my heart and think first about the club and players before myself,” he said.

During the time of the semi-final defeat to Manchester United, Roma had approached Mourinho to take over at the end of the season.

“In some countries maybe it is not normal but it is normal in places like Germany for an announcement six or eight months before when they are working with other clubs. I already knew Tiago Pinto was appointing Jose Mourinho. It was a clear process for me. Jose had a great attitude with me. He called me and spoke and there was no problem,” he said.

When it is suggested to Fonseca that a phone call would have been a chance for Mourinho to recommend the Spurs job, he breaks into laughter. They did not speak about Spurs but it was clear they were suited. Even in that United defeat, they had continued to attack and at 7-4 on aggregate sensed nerves in Ole Gunnar Solskjaer’s team. Eventually it ended 8-5.

He has been close to coming to England before. In 2018 he spoke with Everton when they eventually signed Marco Silva. At the time Fonseca had a contract with Shakhtar. West Ham United were also interested.

“I honestly believe this will happen one day and is one of my ambitions to coach in England one day,” he said. “I haven’t done it yet so cannot say my way of coaching is perfect for England. But there is more open teams, teams trying to win, of course more intensity but also space to develop my game.”

 

[Legacy Lilywhite]

Todays Telegraph

Paulo Fonseca has revealed he started pre-season plans at Tottenham before his move was torpedoed by managing director Fabio Paratici's demands for more defensive football.


In a wide-ranging interview with Telegraph Sport, Fonseca outlined how close he was to joining Spurs, saying “the agreement was done”, but that the move collapsed due to Paratici wanting a less attack-minded coach.

Nuno Espirito Santo was eventually appointed as Jose Mourinho's successor, with the former Wolves head coach having already been subjected to criticism by supporters for a perceived negative style.

Fonseca insists his attacking instincts - shaped by his time with Shakhtar Donetsk and AS Roma - would have chimed with Tottenham's motto of 'To Dare Is To Do', but admits his move was doomed as soon as Paratici was appointed.

“The agreement was done. We were planning the pre-season and Tottenham wanted an offensive coach. It wasn’t announced but we planned pre-season players. But things changed when the new managing director arrived and we didn’t agree with some ideas and he preferred another coach,” Fonseca said, speaking from his home in Kiev, Ukraine.


“I have some principles. I wanted to be coach of the great teams but I want the right project and a club where the people believe in my ideas, my way to play, and this didn’t happen with the managing director.


“It’s what the chairman and the sporting director (Steve Hitchen) asked for. To build a team who can play attractive and offensive football and I was ready for that. I cannot be a different way. All my teams will have these intentions. In Rome or Shakhtar in the Champions League against the biggest teams, I’m not sending out my teams to defend near their own box.”


Fonseca, 48, has stuck to his attacking principles from when he started as a coach in the Portuguese lower divisions before working his way up and making his name at Paços Ferreira where he reached the Champions League and gave a debut to a slight 17-year-old called Diogo Jota.


Others who have improved under his guidance included Willy Boly, then Fred when the pair worked together at Shakhtar Donetsk.


By the time Fonseca arrived at Roma, Henrikh Mkhitaryan saw a comparison to Thomas Tuchel, who he worked with at Borussia Dortmund. “He is similar,” Mkhitaryan said of Fonseca, “he tries to put the players in the right position, to give them the freedom to enjoy the way they play.” The improvement of players under Fonseca is underpinned by his attacking football.


“All players want to have the ball,” he said. “They want to dominate. They want to participate. They don’t want to run to recover the ball. They don’t want to run without the ball and defend. The best way to defend is to have the ball.


“We have an obligation with supporters to create a spectacle, a good show. That is the obligation of the coach. I want to win every game but just winning is not enough for me. I have to be offensive and dominate the games and have an offensive midfield and show courage in the game. These are things which will die with me.


“It happened so many times when I got home after winning a game and my wife asked ‘why are you unhappy?’ And it is because I didn’t win the way I wanted to. It is not enough. I have to create a good show for the people who pay the tickets and love football. At least I try. I cannot be a coach in another way.”

What is likely to have appealed to Spurs chairman Daniel Levy was Fonseca’s diplomacy at Roma. He worked during a period of uncertainty at the club when the Friedkin Group secured a takeover and he worked without a technical director for a large part of his time in the Italian capital, getting the club to the semi-finals of the Europa League last season.

“It cannot be the coach creating the problems. The coach solves the problems and I believe when you defend the club with your heart, things become easier. It is a question of principles of life. When I am at a club I have to defend them with all my heart and think first about the club and players before myself,” he said.

During the time of the semi-final defeat to Manchester United, Roma had approached Mourinho to take over at the end of the season.

“In some countries maybe it is not normal but it is normal in places like Germany for an announcement six or eight months before when they are working with other clubs. I already knew Tiago Pinto was appointing Jose Mourinho. It was a clear process for me. Jose had a great attitude with me. He called me and spoke and there was no problem,” he said.

When it is suggested to Fonseca that a phone call would have been a chance for Mourinho to recommend the Spurs job, he breaks into laughter. They did not speak about Spurs but it was clear they were suited. Even in that United defeat, they had continued to attack and at 7-4 on aggregate sensed nerves in Ole Gunnar Solskjaer’s team. Eventually it ended 8-5.

He has been close to coming to England before. In 2018 he spoke with Everton when they eventually signed Marco Silva. At the time Fonseca had a contract with Shakhtar. West Ham United were also interested.

“I honestly believe this will happen one day and is one of my ambitions to coach in England one day,” he said. “I haven’t done it yet so cannot say my way of coaching is perfect for England. But there is more open teams, teams trying to win, of course more intensity but also space to develop my game.”

I realise it’s just one side of the story but it does seem to emphasise how out of touch with the game DL is. He’s just not got a footballing brain. And he’s manipulated all over the place with this fake illusion that he’s some kind of negotiating genius when he’s nothing more than a bloody minded fool.

 

[Mick Cooper]

I realise it’s just one side of the story but it does seem to emphasise how out of touch with the game DL is. He’s just not got a footballing brain. And he’s manipulated all over the place with this fake illusion that he’s some kind of negotiating genius when he’s nothing more than a bloody minded fool.

was not the main point that Paratici was the stumbling block?
Or are you saying that Levy is being led by him?

If he is - then surely this is what we want him to do, lay off the footballing decisions and be at the beck and call of the professionals.
We can't have it both ways.

 

[Legacy Lilywhite]

was not the main point that Paratici was the stumbling block?
Or are you saying that Levy is being led by him?

If he is - then surely this is what we want him to do, lay off the footballing decisions and be at the beck and call of the professionals.
We can't have it both ways.

Yes - that was the hope with Paratici coming in. But that appointment looks questionable given where we’re at now, as well as looking back over how the summer ended.

 

[Skooch]

Do you think Levy has a good track record of appointing football managers/coaches?

Mixed very mixed.

Did he luck out with Poch?

His pursuit of Mourinho was shocking and his refusal to give Nuno the job until persuaded by our DOF followed by indifferent messages about him prove that Nuno was just like a kid with a quid in a sweetie shop. Too much choice, didn't know what he wanted, but knew he had to pick and just went for the first thing suggested to him.

 

[Skooch]

It underlines what a shambles the summer was. You have Levy and Hitchen chasing their tail trying to appoint Naglesmann, Flick, Poch and interviewing ten Hag with Potter supposedly on the list, getting to the stage of almost appointing Fonseca who of course had no release clause. Then they decide to appoint a DOF who obviously has his own views. So i assume if we'd have appointed say Poch, we wouldnt have appointed Paratici? IMO they only appointed Paratici once Conte left Inter and they thought they'd get the pair as both free. The whole thing is a clown car of how to run a football club.

Paratici starting to come across like the Saddam Hussain characted in South Park the movie, especially the bit at the end where he pleads "Hey man, I can change...."

That last sentence is just a perfect way to sum Levy's summer up.