KWP was epic as a young teen, used to look out for games more when he was 16-17 as his jinking runs etc. Did lose his way somewhat, but such a shame we never persevered and got him some good loans 2 years before selling him.
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KWP was epic as a young teen, used to look out for games more when he was 16-17 as his jinking runs etc. Did lose his way somewhat, but such a shame we never persevered and got him some good loans 2 years before selling him.
KWP is and was a better footballer than DR. However, DR was a much more explosive athlete which served him well.
I'm not shitting on KWP so you shouldn't feel any reflexive need to defend him. I'm just pointing out my opinion on his xfer and why we should divorce decisions that should/must be made from the subsequent independent decisions/actions that occur later but seemed related. Congrats to him for making the best of it. I watch Soton a decent amount and am very happy for him.
2 years before selling him he was LITERALLY starting for us on match day 1...HE WAS LITERALLY GIVEN A CHANCE AND DIDN'T TAKE IT. Why would you send out a player that is LITERALLY being given a chance to show himself? He just didn't take it, aged out, and had to be moved on.
You don't think that rounding out and confidence, his game is now showing, might have occured if we'd loaned him well 19-22 (like Rose comparisons at Leeds when he was touted as a future CM, KWP is being talked of the same as clearly holding his own there in training).
He could be a more polished, battle hardened, version of the player we see emerging, here, now, for our RWB crisis!!!
2 years before selling him he was LITERALLY starting for us on match day 1...HE WAS LITERALLY GIVEN A CHANCE AND DIDN'T TAKE IT. Why would you send out a player that is LITERALLY being given a chance to show himself? He just didn't take it, aged out, and had to be moved on.
Cause he was a late bloomer, fragile as you like, but with the silk
Z, my man, you have read my back and forths with that blowhard
bus-conductor
(I kid, BC's my guy but I like to bust his balls, the prick!) about this. You cannot wait forever for a player to 'round out'. We've waited years for Winks to round out and how's that going for us? KWP has found some level of 'success' at Soton and that's great. But also remember that he lost his position to Livramento at the start of the season. Now he's bounced from right to left and back...so still not gangbusters but serviceable.A youth player, depending on age of bubbling up, gets 3-5 years MAX to take their chance. Then you have to move them on as there should be another academy player coming up behind them in that 5 year window AND recruitment should be handling matters as well. No team has time to wait a player's whole career for them to take their chance.
And beyond all that, KWP is still has many of the same flaws he had when he was here. At this point in time and knowing what we know I would rather KWP over Doc and Emerson, sure. But this is 'monday morning QB-ing' and decisions have to be taken with the information available at the time...and that data set is always incomplete.
I recall he was given MoTM v Barcodes, then never got picked again, just trained under Poch's expert eye.2 years before selling him he was LITERALLY starting for us on match day 1...HE WAS LITERALLY GIVEN A CHANCE AND DIDN'T TAKE IT. Why would you send out a player that is LITERALLY being given a chance to show himself? He just didn't take it, aged out, and had to be moved on.
We all laughed at Spanish Waiter for dropping Keano the day after he'd scored a worldie at the Goons, but this was pretty similar.
So - he was given a chance, made the most of it, then got shat on.
Not just what happened to KWP. This sort of idiotic "management" led to great prospects leaving because they couldn't see any route to succeed with us. Noni the obvious example.
What you "recall" is him being awarded MOtM for 3 assists in that game...what you DON'T recall is the rest of his efforts/defensive lapses in that game...similar to the lapses he still suffers @ Soton. More to the game than shiny objects and one of those things is keeping teams from plundering our goal which was a big part of prime Poch.
In YOUR opinion. But you have only a partial dataset upon which you are basing your perspective.
Oh jeez, this is being trotted out again...the
bus-conductor
-Spursidol nonsense conundrum: how does a not-good-enough player etch out a path to the first team? It's a tough one. Many folks think talent and application should be the decider. Luckily I have been disabused of this foolishness by my man BC who understands that the real key to success for academy players making the transition is being given minutes. Making a youth player earn their minutes is detrimental to their progress and it makes them sad. But the alms of being given minutes will miraculously bestow upon our youth the skill of Maradona."Great prospects", huh? That's plural, ya know? Now I understand this Noni character is world class and soon to be a BD winner (as per spursidol) but when i've seen him he's looked raw rubbish...a Nathan Oduwa regen with a likely similar career trajectory. But can you name anymore of these super awesome "great prospects" (emphasis mine) considering you"ve tried to slide this plural by me? And WHEN this Noni character doesn't make it then will you abandon this line of thought and search for a new explanation for the observed phenomenon? You know, like maybe our academy has been run on the cheap just like our first team and is suffering a similar fate.
Also, Poch has been gone for a bit...who and where are the new super awesome great prospects about to bubble up since mean old Poch' the super awesome great prospect hater, is gone. Also, for you and that slinky bastard
Zest
who's pulled a
bus-conductor
2 step outta here when the questions got too inconvenient for his narrative, can you name me all the awesome talent that was coming off the academy conveyor belt BEFORE Poch's dastardly ways?
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If Poch had bothered to play KWP for a number of games in the 2 or 3 years before he left we would still have a very serviceable RWB, capable of also playing LWB - instead of playing him for a game or two several times picking up MoTM and then inextricably dropping him.
Whilst Poch was a fine coach he really was a poor manager - seemingly incapable of developing players from the academy into the first team or allowing them out on loan to other clubs to get that experience : its a totally different role to the easier one of talking players like Kane (who had already scored goals in PL for Spurs and other clubs with many professional games under his belt) and helping him to further develop. Not to mention Poch's pride in announcing he had personally scouted Janssen (then a young professional with a number of Netherlands caps but only one season in top Dutch football under his belt), buying him but then being unable to develop him, or buying Ndombele and Lo Celso who he and 4 succeeding managers have got to play. That just shows the bad side of Poch as a manager. His skill set is of coach not manager.
Whilst Poch was a fine coach he really was a poor manager - seemingly incapable of developing players from the academy into the first team or allowing them out on loan to other clubs to get that experience : its a totally different role to the easier one of talking players like Kane (who had already scored goals in PL for Spurs and other clubs with many professional games under his belt) and helping him to further develop. Not to mention Poch's pride in announcing he had personally scouted Janssen (then a young professional with a number of Netherlands caps but only one season in top Dutch football under his belt), buying him but then being unable to develop him, or buying Ndombele and Lo Celso who he and 4 succeeding managers have got to play. That just shows the bad side of Poch as a manager. His skill set is of coach not manager.
Back to youth matters - Woolwich u23's play Spurs u23's tonight (Friday) at 7 pm at Borehamwood.
I'd guess a similar squad to that which drew with Leeds, unless with Bentancur and Moura back for first team, one or more of White, Devine and Scarlett are no longer required for first team and rejoin the u23 squad tonight
I'd guess a similar squad to that which drew with Leeds, unless with Bentancur and Moura back for first team, one or more of White, Devine and Scarlett are no longer required for first team and rejoin the u23 squad tonight
We had a slew of young nearly players though, didn't we, who coined us many millions to turn over onto the next group.
Recall us having KWP, Onomah, TOB, the other England CM who got big for his boots, Edwards, Noni seeing these failures no doubt (and the talent of Edwards, must of thought like most - if he can't make it here...).
It is an impossible scenario, however, I am fairly certain, under Chelseas structure of the past 5-6years, maybe 2-3-4 of the nearly guys we have serviced away from their ceilings, might have been PL players (Edwards and KWP are clearly that level now), good enough for squad players for us.
Our policy is/was akin to having young boxers, and only letting them spar with Pro's, never fight amateurs to toughen up, then wonder why they all break when dropped, raw, into the Prem furnace (see what many are doing with their perceptions of Scarlett, who is yet to play a single game where we are dominating, foolish posters saying "I see nothing in him").
We need big strides forward, seems the club are starting, would like to see much more in the summer (picking off 3-4 more like Devine).
Spurs had brought through a number of youngsters under Redknapp and others - some quite experienced like England international Andros Townsend, or less experienced like Ryan Mason, Nabil Bentaleb, Steven Caulker, Tom Carroll, Massimo Luengo, Milos Veljkovic and a number of others. But all of them had played first team football either on loan or out on loan.
End result is that Poch sold the lot for well over £100m.
A significant amount for the transfer fund - although wasted/poorly spent on buying the likes of Sissoko.
The difference is coming out of Poch 'train but don't play' and don't go out on loan, we wasted the chance to get some monies from unwanted youngsters or develop others to be good enough to become part of the first team - Kyle Walker Peters being about the only one we did get some sort of fee for. Other youth such as 2 of the E u17 squad who won the WC u17 were caught up by very tough training at too young an age causing long standing injuries and both moved on, despite having had great pre-season performances, without making more than about one short first team match each.
One can look at each case individually but the difference between Poch inheriting half a dozen youngsters with enough experience to get £100m and Poch leaving behind a part trained Skipp (who had to wait until Mourhino to get the loan he needed) - just one player - is stark.
Sadly it will take several years to undo Poch's toxic legacy which resulted in players such as Noni Madueke moving before a pro contract to PSV (ironically taking the place of Bergwijn), and no part trained players to become squad players.
And many parents and agents look to see whether the club has a good reputation in developing players - and post Poch many have clearly decided to go elsewhere. Thus we will get a few less top talent joining the academy until we re-find the way to show we develop youth players to career if not at Spurs to another club where they can have a good career
He failed to impress 3 head-coaches and I remember how fans were at him for being a poor defender when given the chance for Spurs. He really did not play well for Spurs when given the chance, that's a fact.We really became wankshit, under Poch, for bringing talent through.
Three prem assists, Vs Bournemouth (?), then dropped out over a lapse or two. Utterly failed on loans.
PL duo says ex-Tottenham man Walkers-Peters most underrated
Tino Livramento and Thierry Small have claimed that a 24-year-old player Tottenham sold is one of the most underrated players they have played with.www.hitc.com
todd1882
Every bit as talented as Sessegnon.
It took him 2 seasons of trial and error at Soton to come to where he's now. But remember, players always exaggerate when they talk about their teammates.
Thus said, KWP would have been a better option as RWB than the 2 at Spurs right now.
Mate, thats all well and good, but ignores what we're all (mostly) saying...
Those 2 years he's needed, he was robbed by no loans 18-21...
As said, he kept getting thrown in, way too raw, then the fans don't see the broader context. He's a skinny frame who should never have been worked half to death in mans constant 'intensity training' regime, he should have been loaned a club with excellent nutrition and recovery, known to develop players physically really well...
Devine...hmm even we will struggle to screw him up. Looks a natural.