Come here to laugh at West Spam

[Tomo]

Not going to have a cry over a competition when we were it in was deemed the farmers league. We have won other things much bigger like the league cup and smaller like the Audi Cup.

I think the issue is what West Ham did even if it is a tinpot farmers cup reminded fans that what ever level you are at you need to go for it.

We were the historic FA Cup holders. Now we seem uninterested in anything other than top 4 under any manager. We are here to maximise revenue for the growth of our property owning company so the goals of our owners and the goals or the fans don’t match on every aspect.

All the West Ham thing has done is remind people of the soulless nature of trying for top 4 without anything else be it trophies or good football.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

You're welcome to your opinion of course, but the Audi Cup is a pre-season friendly competition, to me that is not comparable to an officially recognised competitive trophy, and you can point to the calibre of teams involved in the Audi Cup, but if it's Real Madrid playing a patchwork of squad players, with some first teamers scattered in wondering round at walking pace, and then making 11 changes at half time, honestly it means nothing.

As for the second point I've bolded, if we were so shit that participation in this competition would lead to us battling relegation then we would have much greater problems than wondering if we're too big to be in it or if it is worth winning.

I'm so tired of reading this as an argument for not being in it, or even the Europa League, just because West Ham were shit in the league and got to this final, does not mean that you have to be shit in the league to get to this final!

We've been terrible at it for years, and I include the Poch years in this, but there is a way to optimally manage your entire squad across all competitions to keep your big players fresh and your fringe players involved, a bit of smart management is all that's required, not completely throwing your league games.

Sure West Ham don't have the resources for that, but we should be more capable of it than them.

The Audi Cup reference is clearly a facetious stab at undermining the credibility of this joke of a competition, designed solely for lower European Languages in an attempt to redistribute the wealth rather than have the elite clubs/leagues hoarding all the cash and closing the shop (it's failed miserably to do this). But still, it had better, more prestigious oppo.

I'm not arguing that "we are too big to be in it". I'm saying it's NOT a major trophy and it will negatively affect our performance next season if we were in it. I'm also saying our fans absolutely will NOT accept us being 17th in Jan. If we were we would fire the coach after demanding him to be fired.

You are talking to me as if Football Teams regularly knock out trebles and quadruples every year whilst they balance their domestic campaigns with European glory, they don't. We are not equipped to enter any European competition next season such as the flux going on at the club right now. I'd rather win an FA Cup or League Cup if there is any choosing to be going on. But here is the rub, there's isn't any choosing, we aren't in it, thank fuck. So why are you arguing the toss?

 

[Herclueless]

The Audi Cup reference is clearly a facetious stab at undermining the credibility of this joke of a competition, designed solely for lower European Languages in an attempt to redistribute the wealth rather than have the elite clubs/leagues hoarding all the cash and closing the shop (it's failed miserably to do this). But still, it had better, more prestigious oppo.

I'm not arguing that "we are too big to be in it". I'm saying it's NOT a major trophy and it will negatively affect our performance next season if we were in it. I'm also saying our fans absolutely will NOT accept us being 17th in Jan. If we were we would fire the coach after demanding him to be fired.

You are talking to me as if Football Teams regularly knock out trebles and quadruples every year whilst they balance their domestic campaigns with European glory, they don't. We are not equipped to enter any European competition next season such as the flux going on at the club right now. I'd rather win an FA Cup or League Cup if there is any choosing to be going on. But here is the rub, there's isn't any choosing, we aren't in it, thank fuck. So why are you arguing the toss?

I was responding directly to points you made mate, but fair play, you've demonstrated that there's no point in that so I won't bother with any more...

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Not going to have a cry over a competition when we were it in was deemed the farmers league. We have won other things much bigger like the league cup and smaller like the Audi Cup.

I think the issue is what West Ham did even if it is a tinpot farmers cup reminded fans that what ever level you are at you need to go for it.

We were the historic FA Cup holders. Now we seem uninterested in anything other than top 4 under any manager. We are here to maximise revenue for the growth of our property owning company so the goals of our owners and the goals or the fans don’t match on every aspect.

All the West Ham thing has done is remind people of the soulless nature of trying for top 4 without anything else be it trophies or good football.

We do take FA Cup and League Cup seriously though. Since our last trophy (League Cup '08) we've reached the final a further 3 times, semis twice and been in FA Cup Semi-Final four times. and a Quarter Final and a final of the two major European comps.

The game is now totally transformed in the last 30yrs, in that to win a MAJOR competition you have to be one of the best 4 teams in the league. Since the PL was formed over 90% (I've forgotten the specific figure and can't be arsed to track it down I actually think it is something like 96%???) of all available major trophies to be won have been done so by the same big 5 teams.

This means any team with the design of winning a trophy needs to up their game and get into this group, something we did but couldn't sustain. Failing to do this will deliver nothing.

Not you, but people seem to think we can just pick and choose what to win when we want, if only we just do this that or the other. No. All the evidence is there, if we want to win a pot we have to build a team that competes at the very top of the league and hope that we get to play Stoke, Watford, Sunderland, Hull, Villa rather than always getting the best x2 teams in the country at the time.

 

[Nosey Chiedozie]

The game is now totally transformed in the last 30yrs, in that to win a MAJOR competition you have to be one of the best 4 teams in the league. Since the PL was formed over 90% (I've forgotten the specific figure and can't be arsed to track it down I actually think it is something like 96%???) of all available major trophies to be won have been done so by the same big 5 teams.

Big 5, I thought it was big 6 ?
Of course, it never was, was it, unless of course you don’t ignore the obvious qualification being success, therefore Leicester absolutely qualify with a championship and an FA cup. They might be a bit sore at the moment, but they’ve tasted very real success on more than one occasion very recently, so I don’t get all this big 6 crap that includes a club which has won 0. It’s all a load of media bum fluff that some have lapped and are now feeling deflated by watching a close neighbour actually win at a final without blowing up at the grid.

 

[LeeMcl]

Yeah and it makes as little sense here as it did elsewhere...

What exactly is it about Lucas' goal years ago that disqualifies us from winning a cup now?

The point was every club has its moments which count.

Actually Spurs won a cup final with almost the last kick ( header ) at Wembley too.

The over praise of West Ham and using their win as the basis to again attack our club and ourselves is nonsense. What they won is not a prize we should be envious of ( imho )

West Ham did well enough, but it’s a utterly ridiculous to overpraise this achievement.

To reference again the Papa Johns trophy. That final was at Wembley, in front of 79,000 supporters. West Ham played in front of 19,000, the level is obvious with just that comparison..

We all want trophies, but then Tottenham have more historically than most clubs in England.

In the 43 years between West Ham’s wins Spurs took 6 major trophies and have been in at least another 6 major finals. Is that enough win or are they recent enough ? No, probably not, but there it is.

 

[Herclueless]

The point was every club has its moments which count.

Actually Spurs won a cup final with almost the last kick ( header ) at Wembley too.

The over praise of West Ham and using their win as the basis to again attack our club and ourselves is nonsense. What they won is not a prize we should be envious of ( imho )

West Ham did well enough, but it’s a utterly ridiculous to overpraise this achievement.

To reference again the Papa Johns trophy. That final was at Wembley, in front of 79,000 supporters. West Ham played in front of 19,000, the level is obvious with just that comparison..

We all want trophies, but then Tottenham have more historically than most clubs in England.

In the 43 years between West Ham’s wins Spurs took 6 major trophies and have been in at least another 6 major finals. Is that enough win or are they recent enough ? No, probably not, but there it is.

I'm not attempting to overpraise West Ham, I'm annoyed at us for being in this competition last year and being so fucking pathetic we went out in the group stage, we should have been comfortably qualified from that in 5 games so that the one that we forfeited didn't matter...

I'm annoyed at us for the number of Europa League campaigns that we limply went out to "farmers" league sides in, funny that the EL was so beneath us previously according to many and yet now that there is an ECL all of a sudden the EL is a serious competition.

Here's an idea for UEFA, invent a 4th Euro trophy (Europa Papa Johnson's Paint Cup???) and al of a sudden the ECL will become prestigious I'm sure...

Anyway, to see us fluff so many opportunities to win a trophy in competitions with such "inferior" opposition year after year, already annoying, was then exacerbated by West Ham just popping along and winning one within a couple of years of qualifying, that's the real annoyance.

It's nothing to do with the perceived prestige of the trophy, or West Ham being great, it's just really fucking annoying.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Big 5, I thought it was big 6 ?
Of course, it never was, was it, unless of course you don’t ignore the obvious qualification being success, therefore Leicester absolutely qualify with a championship and an FA cup. They might be a bit sore at the moment, but they’ve tasted very real success on more than one occasion very recently, so I don’t get all this big 6 crap that includes a club which has won 0. It’s all a load of media bum fluff that some have lapped and are now feeling deflated by watching a close neighbour actually win at a final without blowing up at the grid.

It's 100% fact, something that you seem to fail to get your head around. Stop the fantasy and use facts as a basis of argument.

I'm not deflated by WH, I couldn't give a single fuck about them or that non-entity of a Trophy, every one of my posts attests to this. Yours don't, so stop projecting your disappointment onto me. You give a fuck about them, I don't. You give a fuck about a non-elite trophy, I don't.

 

[AberdeenYid]

Well done to them for winning a trophy that we wouldn’t even want to participate in. And rightly so. If we did, it’d be like the worlds fifth best golfer getting frustrated at never winning a major, so deciding to trundle down to the local course and winning the invitational medal. Fair enough, it’s a win, but it’s a bit average.

Also, winning the trophy but being taken to the cleaners throughout the season in the league? Not for me I’m afraid. Too high a price to pay.

If we ever did win this, I’d celebrate like a motherfucker because I’m a hypocrite. But it was them that won it. So it’s a Subbuteo cup.

 

[Nosey Chiedozie]

It's 100% fact, something that you seem to fail to get your head around. Stop the fantasy and use facts as a basis of argument.

I'm not deflated by WH, I couldn't give a single fuck about them or that non-entity of a Trophy, every one of my posts attests to this. Yours don't, so stop projecting your disappointment onto me. You give a fuck about them, I don't. You give a fuck about a non-elite trophy, I don't.

Whats 100% fact the big 6 stuff ?

 

[Herclueless]

Well done to them for winning a trophy that we wouldn’t even want to participate in. And rightly so. If we did, it’d be like the worlds fifth best golfer getting frustrated at never winning a major, so deciding to trundle down to the local course and winning the invitational medal. Fair enough, it’s a win, but it’s a bit average.

Also, winning the trophy but being taken to the cleaners throughout the season in the league? Not for me I’m afraid. Too high a price to pay.

If we ever did win this, I’d celebrate like a motherfucker because I’m a hypocrite. But it was them that won it. So it’s a Subbuteo cup.

Presuming that the long term goal is to be in CL though, how do you determine that it's not possible to be in the lower level Euro competitions whilst still being competitive in the league?

Would you advocate that it is worth suffering a drop off in the league when in CL due to the (largely financial) pros of being in CL (though this would almost certainly see you only spending one season at a time in CL)?

Or do you acknowledge that actually, it is possible to be competitive on both fronts? In which case then being in the EL/ECL is beneficial in giving an opportunity to develop methods of coping with that, and giving experience to your younger/new players who might not have had it previously?

Your last line is refreshingly honest, and I suspect is how the majority of naysayers really feel.

 

[Notabadsquad]

Not going to have a cry over a competition when we were it in was deemed the farmers league. We have won other things much bigger like the league cup and smaller like the Audi Cup.

I think the issue is what West Ham did even if it is a tinpot farmers cup reminded fans that what ever level you are at you need to go for it.

We were the historic FA Cup holders. Now we seem uninterested in anything other than top 4 under any manager. We are here to maximise revenue for the growth of our property owning company so the goals of our owners and the goals or the fans don’t match on every aspect.

All the West Ham thing has done is remind people of the soulless nature of trying for top 4 without anything else be it trophies or good football.

Sorry not true.

We cannot resort to not interested or Levy/ENIC for every failure.

The truth is that despite having had a number of chances in semi-finals and finals to be trophy winners we have failed. Pure and simple.

Call that what you will but for me that's a lack of character that is beyond defensible.


Not one player in the West Ham side, Rice apart maybe, would have got into our team of 4 or 5 years ago.

But leadership on the pitch and type of player are huge gaps in our make-up and that is the issue that must be addressed before we win anything.

 

[Tomo]

Sorry not true.

We cannot resort to not interested or Levy/ENIC for every failure.

The truth is that despite having had a number of chances in semi-finals and finals to be trophy winners we have failed. Pure and simple.

Call that what you will but for me that's a lack of character that is beyond defensible.


Not one player in the West Ham side, Rice apart maybe, would have got into our team of 4 or 5 years ago.

But leadership on the pitch and type of player are huge gaps in our make-up and that is the issue that must be addressed before we win anything.

When you have multiple managers, multiple squads then it’s something much deeper. If this was 5-10 years I could give that, it’s not, it’s over 20 years.

 

[AberdeenYid]

Presuming that the long term goal is to be in CL though, how do you determine that it's not possible to be in the lower level Euro competitions whilst still being competitive in the league?

Would you advocate that it is worth suffering a drop off in the league when in CL due to the (largely financial) pros of being in CL (though this would almost certainly see you only spending one season at a time in CL)?

Or do you acknowledge that actually, it is possible to be competitive on both fronts? In which case then being in the EL/ECL is beneficial in giving an opportunity to develop methods of coping with that, and giving experience to your younger/new players who might not have had it previously?

Your last line is refreshingly honest, and I suspect is how the majority of naysayers really feel.

History tells us that unless you are a massive club with bottomless resources, balancing Europe and league is a tough gig. I don’t think we are capable of it yet and West Ham certainly aren’t.

I would hope our longer term aim isn’t participation in the CL, but winning the thing. I doubt that us winning the conference gets us much further on in that journey. Although, the actual trophy win would be fantastic.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

The

Whats 100% fact the big 6 stuff ?

The top teams win all the trophies, the evidence supports this.

 

[LLB Part Deux]

At the end of the day, they got a European trophy - probably slightly less prestigious than the old Cup-Winners Cup but still a recognised trophy (unlike Arsenals Fair's Cup which isn't).

To win it, the toughest sides they played were AZ Alkmar (4th in Netherlands) and Fiorentina (8th in Italy) which are both sides we would have been favourites against.

Yet last year we went out of it in the fucking group stage having won 2 matches.

Two years before that we got knocked out of the Europa against managerless Dinamo Zagreb.

2017 we got knocked out the Europa by Gent.

There is a massive issue with managers and players only taking the CL seriously and treating every other European competition like dirt.

 

[Airfixx]

Yeah and it makes as little sense here as it did elsewhere...

What exactly is it about Lucas' goal years ago that disqualifies us from winning a cup now?

It's a rhetorical analogy based on the respective heights of two clubs recent histories(*)... And longer-term histories for that matter.

i.e. 'The peaks of Poch' vs WHs win the other night combined with being a relegation botherers.

Secondarily: Spur's trophy cabinet v WH's


I don't sense anyone is claiming that because we won in Amsterdam that we should not be striving for trophies as we move fwd.



(*Granted, peak Poch is an increasingly distant memory.)

 

[Airfixx]

Big 5, I thought it was big 6 ?

7 now..... + current clubs d'jour; Brighton & Villa.

Regardless; top 4 and trophies ought to be a mere formality for Spurs though.

 

[Deuterz]

It’s a shit cup but the bottom line is they’ve got to celebrate it and they’re the ones who will take part in the 2nd tier of European football whilst we’re not in anything next season.

They’ve had a better season than us, which when all said and done is fucking embarrassing for the club.

 

[Chelmsfordspurs]

Some bellend has put a West Ham flag up in Walton. He’s put it upside down.

How? How the fuck do you do that?