Management Ange Postecoglou

[HampshireSpur]

I think as Spurs fans we're so invested in the performance of the side that we over catastrophize the perceived appeal of the club.

Yes we all view Levy as a cringey little toad, but you really think Iraola is gonna hang up the phone to the prospect of multiple millions of pounds worth of wages, and the possibility that just maybe he could be the one to bring a long overdue trophy to the club?

We're paying Ange £5m per year, imagine what an actual competent and qualified manager could demand off the back of that!

Click to shrink...

Honestly I think he would at this point - we're not an attractive prospect (immediately) and they are building an exciting regime at Bournemouth, I think he'd see it as a risk perhaps not worth taking at this moment in time (that may change).

Where I do agree is that we are a big club and still have enough clout to pull a GOOD manager and this must be the aim once Angelos gets the boot.

 

[Herclueless]

Honestly I think he would at this point - we're not an attractive prospect (immediately) and they are building an exciting regime at Bournemouth, I think he'd see it as a risk perhaps not worth taking at this moment in time (that may change).

Where I do agree is that we are a big club and still have enough clout to pull a GOOD manager and this must be the aim once Angelos gets the boot.

Click to shrink...

I see it the opposite.

We're performing well below our level right now, any manager coming in and just achieving par will quite easily see us shoot up the league.

It seems as much as a no lose scenario as you could hope to get at this level.

Expectations are lower than they have been in goodness knows how long, and the wages on offer will be high.

No sane manager would look at Bournemouth/Spurs and decide that Bournemouth was the more exciting prospect, Iraola (if given the option) should be looking at the situation and thinking if he can achieve what he is doing at Bournemouth then what can he do with Spurs.

 

[John Thomas]

It's weird though.

I've never known a manager to be so clueless and hopeless yet a significant minority clamour for his retention.

Click to shrink...

I honestly think there's a proportion of our fanbase that feels more comfortable with our team being mid table also rans than a big 6 club challenging and competing for major honours.
They enjoy the lower expectations and prefer the plucky little underdog status and would rather to look up to our rivals than look them in the eye as equals.
You're right. It really is weird.

 

[Dudski]

I see it the opposite.

We're performing well below our level right now, any manager coming in and just achieving par will quite easily see us shoot up the league.

It seems as much as a no lose scenario as you could hope to get at this level.

Expectations are lower than they have been in goodness knows how long, and the wages on offer will be high.

Click to shrink...

It's also a no lose scenario for Postecoglou. Next season he will be credited with pulling Spurs back up. He won't even have to make Champion's League. His fans will say, "He's taken up from 15th to 8th, isn't he wonderful?"

 

[Matt1882]

I honestly think there's a proportion of our fanbase that feels more comfortable with our team being mid table also rans than a big 6 club challenging and competing for major honours.
They enjoy the lower expectations and prefer the plucky little underdog status and would rather to look up to our rivals than look them in the eye as equals.
You're right. It really is weird.

Click to shrink...

Plenty of other teams they could anti-glory-hunt as fans of. Spam, Fulham, Palace. Cheaper tickets, much less expectations. Fulham is even a nice place to go Vs Tottenham.

 

[scarletjim]

A lot of talk about the sale of Hojbjerg regarding the lack of protection for the defence.

Should Spurs have sold Ollie Skipp?

The boy loved to make tackles and give it simple.

Click to shrink...

It's a shame, but he just didn't have the technical ability that we need, particularly given what Ange wants the 6 to do. He doesn't just want a destroyer who then gives it simple to others who can 'play football', he wants his 6 to be press-resistant, capable and confident in tight areas, and a good passer - Skippy was none of those things, bless him.

 

[Herclueless]

It's also a no lose scenario for Postecoglou. Next season he will be credited with pulling Spurs back up. He won't even have to make Champion's League. His fans will say, "He's taken up from 15th to 8th, isn't he wonderful?"

Click to shrink...

Well that depends on your assessment of Postecoglou, for him it could get worse...

Next season he could be credited as the first Manager to lead us into the Championship.

I make the no-lose comment on the basis that I don't believe that there is a more inept manager on the cards, and on the assumption that we will at the very least hire someone competent next.

However, knowing Spurs...

 

[Herclueless]

It's a shame, but he just didn't have the technical ability that we need, particularly given what Ange wants the 6 to do. He doesn't just want a destroyer who then gives it simple to others who can 'play football', he wants his 6 to be press-resistant, capable and confident in tight areas, and a good passer - Skippy was none of those things, bless him.

Click to shrink...

Funny though, as none of our midfielders look like that after 18 months under Ange...

 

[Richard Arlison]

I'd love Bervall to have a starting place, I love his passion, but not as a 6 - I know Biss and Bents give the ball away too much, but Bergvall even more so, the number of times he's played an over-confident pass sideways or backwards in his own half and giving it straight to the opposition is scary. Hopefully Gray will be the long-term solution as a 6, with Bergvall playing a more advanced role. Well, either that or he gets his own-half passing more disciplined...

Click to shrink...

I would put Gray there but we haven't seen him actually play there yet. Long term for sure.

I can live with Bergvall making mistakes at 19. Bissouma makes worse mistakes and Bentancur just drifts through games.

 

[Kosher Kid]

I honestly think there's a proportion of our fanbase that feels more comfortable with our team being mid table also rans than a big 6 club challenging and competing for major honours.
They enjoy the lower expectations and prefer the plucky little underdog status and prefer to look up to our rivals rather look them in the eye as equals.
You're right. It really is weird.

Click to shrink...

The expectation level has been reduced to this by ENIC's tenure.

ENIC only got away with it because of what happened under Sugar.

Sugar sat back and let the A list Zola's and Bergkamp's go elsewhere when their natural home at that time would have been Spurs.

ENIC have continued this preference for B and C list younger players on low wages.

That is now accepted by the majority of Spurs supporters but it wasn't before Sugar.

Spurs signed Waddle's, Gascoigne's and Lineker's before Sugar.

It's been written out of our manifesto by these parasitical owners who take everything and give the minimum requirement.

 

[Kosher Kid]

It's a shame, but he just didn't have the technical ability that we need, particularly given what Ange wants the 6 to do. He doesn't just want a destroyer who then gives it simple to others who can 'play football', he wants his 6 to be press-resistant, capable and confident in tight areas, and a good passer - Skippy was none of those things, bless him.

Click to shrink...

If Ange hadn't been the manager could Skipp have done well at Spurs?

 

[Matt1882]

Just had to "shout" at Barnaby on his live youtube channel.

Yet another misguided comment about giving Ange time based on Fergie.
I pointed out that Fergie took over a Man United side in Nov 1986 that was 19th, and lost 8 out of 29 remaining league games getting them to 11th. His loss ratio was 27% that season.
What was Ange's last season? 12/38 = 31.6%
Fergies 2nd season at United - finished 2nd. P40 L5 = LR = 12.5%
Here's where it gets very, very interesting folks.

Fergies 3rd season. The one where many say he was struggling and facing the sack. P38 L 13 = LR 34.2% - only marginally worse than NoClue last season.
AND it gets wilder folks. MUCH Wilder. Man United nearly sacked him for losing 13 from 38 games.
This season we have already lost 13 games from 24. Our loss ratio is currently 54.1%

So for the love of facts, evidence, and fucking sanity, can you all stop holding Fergie's "struggles" up as a reason to back this and other useless cunts.

 

[manmountainbutters]

we actually did alright considering the heavily rotated teams and injury plagued teams we put out in every game of the group stage and still finished 2 points off top

Click to shrink...

No. The wage bill of the teams we put out would be above pretty much every opponent we played. We could check that but I'd be confident it's true (only poss exception was Roma).

I was at all the home games and watched the away games on TV. Only good performance was Qarabag at home with 10 men.

Aside from that we were nowhere near good enough to believe we can win under Ange.

 

[manmountainbutters]

Yeah its not impossible but just feels very unrealistic. 3 big roadblocks/issues that I can think of.

1) Would the manager want to leave their club during a season or have a preference to finish the season?
2) The club would have to pay a substantially higher fee (15-20m) to get them to come during the season.
3) We are giving them an awful start by bringing them in during an injury crisis where players are fatigued. It wouldn't take long for certain fans to question them after a few bad results as is very evident on here. Results mean everything to some fans and nothing else matters even if he was trying to implement new ideas and waiting for key players like Romero, VDV and Solanke to return.

Would be a lot easier just to hire them on 1st of June! Can implement his ideas during pre season without pressure of results and should have close to a full squad available for the start of the season.

Click to shrink...

1 and 2 don't apply to people who are not currently working in a management job

3. don't be so sure. The rate of new injuries will magically start to reduce, and players will come back under a new coach.

 

[scarletjim]

If Ange hadn't been the manager could Skipp have done well at Spurs?

Click to shrink...

I'm not sure. He wasnt great under any manager - he had the odd effective game here and there, but will never have the technical quality needed to be a top 6 player, which is what and where we are presumably intending and expecting to be (and have been for most of the last 15+ years)

 

[Brian Fantana]

I honestly think there's a proportion of our fanbase that feels more comfortable with our team being mid table also rans than a big 6 club challenging and competing for major honours.
They enjoy the lower expectations and prefer the plucky little underdog status and would rather to look up to our rivals than look them in the eye as equals.
You're right. It really is weird.

Click to shrink...

Definitely. The losers are so easy to spot on twitter for example.

 

[Deuterz]

we actually did alright considering the heavily rotated teams and injury plagued teams we put out in every game of the group stage and still finished 2 points off top

Click to shrink...

We didn't beat a single side who you wouldn't expect us to beat 99/100.

Beating the dross of Europe (Ferencavros, Qarabag, Hoffenheim, Elfsborg etc..) is not a flex, its a bare minimum expectation. I would expect most mid-table prem clubs to absolutely piss the same finish we managed.

 

[Mrs Perryman]

Only for the very slim possibility that I may see the club I love win a trophy by sheer luck and fortune.

But when it comes to the PL, why would I waste the very finite time I have as a human on this planet watching some charlatan grifter drag the club I love into the meat grinder?

It’s just sadomasochism at this point and rewarding incompetence, I am done thinking he will turn some imaginary corner, we both know damn well that isn’t going to ha, ppen.

Click to shrink...

I have to say that if I can't watch a game in the flesh, I don't tend to go down the pub to see away games, and give myself a day off from the worry and fretting. If it's good, will catch the highlights on Spursplay. I don't know why but I find myself restless and fidgety watching 90+ minutes on TV, and don't start me off on the pundits and commentators.

 

[manmountainbutters]

Honestly I think he would at this point - we're not an attractive prospect (immediately) and they are building an exciting regime at Bournemouth, I think he'd see it as a risk perhaps not worth taking at this moment in time (that may change).

Where I do agree is that we are a big club and still have enough clout to pull a GOOD manager and this must be the aim once Angelos gets the boot.

Click to shrink...

Conte was on £15m? Iraola could demand £10m+

 

[manmountainbutters]

These two points, while not being contradictory per se, don't seem in synch to me. If "b" is the case, that is if you truly believe that we're not safe despite being 10 points+GD clear of a dreadful Leicester team, then you must think that this team stinks. Then how come you argue "a" in the same breath?

Besides, among a short list of managers that would take this job without harbouring any long term expectations, how many of them would be fine with stepping aside even after accomplishing something as big as winning EL? It's close to zero, if not zero. It's a moot point anyway, as based on the format alone winning EL has always been a longshot. Especially for a team that's in total disarray. A caretaker can only do so much.

At the moment, even with a caretaker, I see a treadmill team that's neither relegation fodder nor potential EL winner. That's where we differ.

Click to shrink...

Because the possibility of winning the EL is a "pull" factor for any interim coach. It's a good thing. It's not unrealistic at all. It's also really important to all fans.

The possibilty of being relegated isn't something a coach would like to walk into of course, but it makes it all the more important to get a good interim.

It is entirely logical to believe:

a) we have a good chance of winning the EL with a good interim
b) we have a chance of getting relegated with Ange, that would reduce significantly with a good coach
c) a) and b) explained by the fact the team is likely to be decent with a good coach, but shit under Ange

So they are both factors supporting giving Ange the boot and getting an interim who is a better coach than Ange.

There is no inconsistency.