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Management Ange Postecoglou

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Nobody3 said:
Enic will give Ange time, what time equates to we will have to see but for me at least until the end of this season that means another transfer window for AP to add too and delete from the squad. I think the man's ethos is to be applauded and he has change many things at THFC for the better in his tenure so far. He has and does frustrate the life out of me with this rigid approach to how he wants to play every single game, but I believe he will soften on this intensity, I believe he will have to and if he does then I also believe with what else he has already brought to the club we have a manager with the potential to take us to the next level. COYS!
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I am seeing a glimmer of hope that he'll build enough momentum in the team to get us over the line in a cup sooner or later. There's definitely some team spirit and attacking power there. I'm enjoying most of the games again after some dire years.

He won't turn us into a team challenging for the league until the owners incrementally increase funds for transfers and moreso wages.
 
Silvio Dante said:
He won't turn us into a team challenging for the league until the owners incrementally increase funds for transfers and moreso wages.
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Personally, I feel like the true underlying reason for our underperformance has been Levy's obsession with recouping transfer costs and a refusal to accept losses on transfers. I don't think transfer fees or wages have much to do with it, it's that players who fail to perform to expectations are typically allowed to stick around until their contracts expire. It has been my opinion for a long time now that in the Premier League roughly 40% of players are always going to fail to make the grade, while about 30% meet expectations and the remaining 30% exceed expectations. That's going to be generally true whether we're paying 10m to lure a promising u18 prospect, or 75m on a "marquee signing" that is intended to be the centerpiece that we build a team around.

At Spurs, instead of being aggressively moved on and taken as a loss on the books, players that have underperformed are generally allowed to stick around until their contract expires, because Levy thinks he might be able to con someone into paying well above their market rate. Moreover, they're generally give a second contract and a second opportunity to prove themselves, which I believe really got worse under Pochettino and his apparent expectation that it would take 3-4 years for players to adapt to his methods. I think it sets the tone that performance expectations are secondary, and that Spurs is a cushy place with excellent training facilities that is a great place to ride out a few years of your career; that your playing performance is secondary to your treatment as an accounting asset.

People are so fixated on paying higher transfer fees and bigger wage packets to attract "better" players, but in my view that's a fool's errand when regardless of the details the greatest percentage of transfers are going to fail to meet expectations anyways; we need to just focus on getting more business done and stopping ourselves from overcomplicating transfers and negotiations, and then being much more strict about dispensing with players that fail to meet expectations.
 
Don Pedro said:
A lot of fans on here seem to fall into a narrative that every defeat is Ange's fault and every win is an Ange masterclass. The truth is somewhere in the middle, and we need to stop this reactionary approach where your judging Ange solely on the last result. It was overly negative on Monday and its overly positive today.

Lets judge him in May and not freak out at every bump in the road
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I’m sorry this is far too sensible
 
The Absolute GOAT said:
I just want you to know this.

Whomever EVENTUALLY replaces Ange, I hope that it's someone that upsets you so much, you never post on here again.

Alternatively, if it's someone who you actually want, I am going to spend every waking moment on here slagging him off and being utterly obnoxious and vile, like you have been, until you eventually get so irritated you...DELETE YOUR ACCOUNT.

:dembelefingers:
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What’s with you wanting so much to turn this forum into some echo chamber?
 
Nobody3 said:
Enic will give Ange time, what time equates to we will have to see but for me at least until the end of this season that means another transfer window for AP to add too and delete from the squad. I think the man's ethos is to be applauded and he has change many things at THFC for the better in his tenure so far. He has and does frustrate the life out of me with this rigid approach to how he wants to play every single game, but I believe he will soften on this intensity, I believe he will have to and if he does then I also believe with what else he has already brought to the club we have a manager with the potential to take us to the next level. COYS!
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Every manager is an interim manager. You just hope that whatever combination of on pitch results and player development they give before we move to the next one represents an arrow pointing up. I would like to see Postecoglou get three full seasons to put his stamp on Spurs. He has brought the attacking style fans wanted, he's developing younger players, but the results part is still a question mark. What Levy did hiring Postecoglou was create a period of time where the pressure on him has lessened due to fan happiness (at least initially) with the new manager's personality and style of play. And he's kept the payroll under control by not having to pay veteran players at higher wages. The decision point for the project will be next year and beyond, at which point all the excuse cards have been played and fans will rightfully expect not just to be in the top four but challenging for the top spot. Whether that happens or not, I think Postecoglou will have made a positive impact.
 
Cant see why everyone doubles down on everything. The performance against City was really good, great result and an entertaining game. No point trying to diminish it.

Equally on the flip side there is this stat, which is why there are and will continue to be questions until this improves. 'Ange Postecoglou’s side have lost nine of their last 16 league games, with only Wolves losing more'.
 
Shadydan said:
Helps with the debate, would be good to see where you're coming from who you think would be doing a better job, and why.
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Amorim, Marco Rose, Nagelsmann, Xabi Alonso, possibly Iraola and Rangnick too.

As for the why, it’s hard to say with exact precision, these managers have more experience at top level and although they have kept belief in their tactical principles, they’re more willing to compromise in certain situations and they’re more experienced to react faster to certain events with a tactical tweak that can win a game. And they have overachieved at most clubs they managed.
 
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Sir Archibald Crooks said:
Cant see why everyone doubles down on everything. The performance against City was really good, great result and an entertaining game. No point trying to diminish it.

Equally on the flip side there is this stat, which is why there are and will continue to be questions until this improves. 'Ange Postecoglou’s side have lost nine of their last 16 league games, with only Wolves losing more'.
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Agreed, but the 16 games thing is just designed to include a terrible run at the end of the season which included back to back games vs Newcastle, Woolwich, Liverpool and Chelsea.

The previous sixteen games we lost 3 which is why we finished 5th last season and are currently 11 places above wolves despite the random stat
 
VirginiaSpur said:
Personally, I feel like the true underlying reason for our underperformance has been Levy's obsession with recouping transfer costs and a refusal to accept losses on transfers. I don't think transfer fees or wages have much to do with it, it's that players who fail to perform to expectations are typically allowed to stick around until their contracts expire. It has been my opinion for a long time now that in the Premier League roughly 40% of players are always going to fail to make the grade, while about 30% meet expectations and the remaining 30% exceed expectations. That's going to be generally true whether we're paying 10m to lure a promising u18 prospect, or 75m on a "marquee signing" that is intended to be the centerpiece that we build a team around.

At Spurs, instead of being aggressively moved on and taken as a loss on the books, players that have underperformed are generally allowed to stick around until their contract expires, because Levy thinks he might be able to con someone into paying well above their market rate. Moreover, they're generally give a second contract and a second opportunity to prove themselves, which I believe really got worse under Pochettino and his apparent expectation that it would take 3-4 years for players to adapt to his methods. I think it sets the tone that performance expectations are secondary, and that Spurs is a cushy place with excellent training facilities that is a great place to ride out a few years of your career; that your playing performance is secondary to your treatment as an accounting asset.

People are so fixated on paying higher transfer fees and bigger wage packets to attract "better" players, but in my view that's a fool's errand when regardless of the details the greatest percentage of transfers are going to fail to meet expectations anyways; we need to just focus on getting more business done and stopping ourselves from overcomplicating transfers and negotiations, and then being much more strict about dispensing with players that fail to meet expectations.
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It mostly is wages though.
 
dudu said:
Agreed, but the 16 games thing is just designed to include a terrible run at the end of the season which included back to back games vs Newcastle, Woolwich, Liverpool and Chelsea.

The previous sixteen games we lost 3 which is why we finished 5th last season and are currently 11 places above wolves despite the random stat
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Its our most recent run of form in the league, thats all, its a snapshot of league form. It highlights that we lose way too many games and its become a bit of a habit that we have to improve on.
 
Sir Archibald Crooks said:
Its our most recent run of form in the league, thats all, its a snapshot of league form. It highlights that we lose way too many games and its become a bit of a habit that we have to improve on.
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Id say our most recent run is the run we are currently on from this season.

Why 16 why not 12? or 20?

Come on mate - I know you know what I am saying.

Sure we need to improve our win rate but those specific stats, wherever you got them from, were pulled out of a hat to compare us to Wolves which is pointless.

They are 19th with 2 points this season we are 8th with 13
The finished 14th last season, and we finished 5th, 20 points ahead.

Current form is typically looked at in 5 games spurts

We are 9 points from the last 5
Chelsea are 10
Arsneal are 9
Newcastle are 2
Villa are 9
Wolves are 1
 
Sir Archibald Crooks said:
Cant see why everyone doubles down on everything. The performance against City was really good, great result and an entertaining game. No point trying to diminish it.

Equally on the flip side there is this stat, which is why there are and will continue to be questions until this improves. 'Ange Postecoglou’s side have lost nine of their last 16 league games, with only Wolves losing more'.
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That's dreadful. Or you could say 10 of the last 22. All depends where your cut off point happens to be.
 
dudu said:
Id say our most recent run is the run we are currently on from this season.

Why 16 why not 12? or 20?

Come on mate - I know you know what I am saying.

Sure we need to improve our win rate but those specific stats, wherever you got them from, were pulled out of a hat to compare us to Wolves which is pointless.

They are 19th with 2 points this season we are 8th with 13
The finished 14th last season, and we finished 5th, 20 points ahead.

Current form is typically looked at in 5 games spurts

We are 9 points from the last 5
Chelsea are 10
Arsneal are 9
Newcastle are 2
Villa are 9
Wolves are 1
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We are no Wolves but we're currently on course to lose 12- 15 league games and that isn't good enough to improve on last seasons finish.

It's up to Ange and the whole squad to go on a really good run
 
SpursRomania said:
Amorim, Marco Rose, Nagelsmann, Xabi Alonso, possibly Iraola and Rangnick too.

As for the why, it’s hard to say with exact precision, these managers have more experience at top level and although they have kept belief in their tactical principles, they’re more willing to compromise in certain situations and they’re more experienced to react faster to certain events with a tactical tweak that can win a game. And they have overachieved at most clubs they managed.
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Apart from Marco Rose, none of these managers we are likely to attract, like if Ange got sacked now none of these managers are quitting their current jobs and jumping at the chance of managing Spurs and even if we waited until the Summer who is likely out of them to have this job as their first choice, also Iraola lol be serious...there's a world away from managing Bournemouth and Bilbao compared to Spurs.

This is all well and good by the way and yeah sure those managers may be more tactically astute than Ange or whatever but as I said in my initial post...working at a club like Spurs and with this board with effectively one hand tied behind your back and with the evilest chairman who has ever owned a club (so I'm told) You can talk about how much Nagelsmann would be able to react and turn a match but when he has a couple of 18 year old's to turn to on his bench he's not going to be able to do shit...The difference is that the manager we currently have is likely to see out the rebuild and work with the board, the guy's you mentioned if they ever got the job aren't sticking around.
 
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