Manager Ange Postecoglou

[Deleted member 15482]

Every game feels like a lottery with us, because we always seem to give up several good chances to score against us. If the opposition can take them, they win.

I don't know the stats and whether we are better or worse than other teams in this regard, it just feels this way from a fan's perspective.

There's no control, it's a rollercoaster. It's a Jimmy White v a Steve Davis. Jimmy took fans on the rollercoaster and was the people's champion. He won 0 world titles. 'Interesting' Steve Davis won 6. Spurs are Jimmy.

 

[Deuterz]

27 years vs 6 years, non comparison

Click to shrink...

that’s even worse, he spent a whole career in the fucking void!

 

[Shadydan]

Every game feels like a lottery with us, because we always seem to give up several good chances to score against us. If the opposition can take them, they win.

I don't know the stats and whether we are better or worse than other teams in this regard, it just feels this way from a fan's perspective.

There's no control, it's a rollercoaster. It's a Jimmy White v a Steve Davis. Jimmy took fans on the rollercoaster and was the people's champion. He won 0 world titles. 'Interesting' Steve Davis won 6. Spurs are Jimmy.

Click to shrink...

We don't really this season though, our xga is pretty good (5th) compared to last season anyway.

Much more control this season as well.

 

[Shadydan]

that’s even worse, he spent a whole career in the fucking void!

Click to shrink...

Yet has vastly more exp than Iraola...

 

[SpursRomania]

Apart from Marco Rose, none of these managers we are likely to attract, like if Ange got sacked now none of these managers are quitting their current jobs and jumping at the chance of managing Spurs and even if we waited until the Summer who is likely out of them to have this job as their first choice, also Iraola lol be serious...there's a world away from managing Bournemouth and Bilbao compared to Spurs.

This is all well and good by the way and yeah sure those managers may be more tactically astute than Ange or whatever but as I said in my initial post...working at a club like Spurs and with this board with effectively one hand tied behind your back and with the evilest chairman who has ever owned a club (so I'm told) You can talk about how much Nagelsmann would be able to react and turn a match but when he has a couple of 18 year old's to turn to on his bench he's not going to be able to do shit...The difference is that the manager we currently have is likely to see out the rebuild and work with the board, the guy's you mentioned if they ever got the job aren't sticking around.

Click to shrink...

Man you’re quick to dismiss any alternatives. I don’t know why you asked me all those things seeing that you’re set in your thinking that Postecoglou is the right man for the club.

 

[Shadydan]

Man you’re quick to dismiss any alternatives. I don’t know why you asked me all those things seeing that you’re set in your thinking that Postecoglou is the right man for the club.

Click to shrink...

You've been following the conversation haven't you?

I said Ange is the best man for the job considering the circumstances we are in and explained why and you totally refuted it, hence why I asked you for alternatives.

The only realistic one you've given me is Marco Rose and even then there's no cast iron guarantee of him being a success and sacking Ange now by the way is basically wasting a whole year just to start again with someone else who isn't a obvious upgrade on him, pointless.

 

[Skippa18]

This is why basing opinions off small sample sizes is so stupid. I'll bet a thousand euro we won't lose more than 12 league games this season

Click to shrink...

But what makes you so sure?

We lost 12 league games last season.... despite being unbeaten in our first 10 games.

We have already lost 4 games in 9 that in My opinion 3 of them we should definitely not be losing if we want to improve on last season.

 

[SpursRomania]

You've been following the conversation haven't you?

I said Ange is the best man for the job considering the circumstances we are in and explained why and you totally refuted it, hence why I asked you for alternatives.

The only realistic one you've given me is Marco Rose and even then there's no cast iron guarantee of him being a success and sacking Ange now by the way is basically wasting a whole year just to start again with someone else who isn't a obvious upgrade on him, pointless.

Click to shrink...

No it’s not wasting a whole year lol, 9 games in is still pretty early and a good manager can have an impact relatively quickly, or you think he needs 11 new players or some shit to do well?

 

[Shadydan]

No it’s not wasting a whole year lol, 9 games in is still pretty early and a good manager can have an impact relatively quickly, or you think he needs 11 new players or some shit to do well?

Click to shrink...

11 new players? Always the extreme with you isn't it.

We basically have to start again with a new manager, new principles, new tactics, new setup with 0 time to work on them and with 0 pre season, who's to say a new manager would be happy with the current players, who's to say the players would react to the manager...Too many question marks over a manager who isn't a clear upgrade.

 

[Phomesy]

Man you’re quick to dismiss any alternatives. I don’t know why you asked me all those things seeing that you’re set in your thinking that Postecoglou is the right man for the club.

Click to shrink...

He does have a point that most of your list are/were unobtainable for Spurs - although I suppose Amorim was obtainable at the time of Ange's appointment. However Amorim also plays a 3 at the back - a formation that was never going to fly after Conte (however good Amorim might be regardless).

 

[BlackLips]

The most underrated argument for sticking with a manager at this point is so the players can stop getting off easy. We’ve recycled the managers when the players fall short. They are the ones who haven’t gotten over the line and they need to be pushed to do it. That really needs to come from the manager and ruthless competition within the squad that comes with finding players that fit the current manager. If we keep with this manager turnover you keep allowing that process to reset. I’m not saying Ange is the savior, but I like him and NO ONE is a guarantee to win. We couldn’t win sht with freaking Conte so to act like Iraola, Amorim, whoever is a clear upgrade is a joke.

 

[SpursRomania]

11 new players? Always the extreme with you isn't it.

We basically have to start again with a new manager, new principles, new tactics, new setup with 0 time to work on them and with 0 pre season, who's to say a new manager would be happy with the current players, who's to say the players would react to the manager...Too many question marks over a manager who isn't a clear upgrade.

Click to shrink...

Look man, I am not going to get into this again, I already said what I had to say, answered your questions, but I see we’re going in circles. If you think we have to "start over" if Postecoglou leaves I just think you’re massively deluded. There have been lots of examples of managers who took over mid-season and produced results.

He does have a point that most of your list are/were unobtainable for Spurs - although I suppose Amorim was obtainable at the time of Ange's appointment. However Amorim also plays a 3 at the back - a formation that was never going to fly after Conte (however good Amorim might be regardless).

Click to shrink...

A 3 at the back formation could actually work now because we have three capable CBs.

 

[Aphex]

Pretty sure we've won 8 of our last 10?

Click to shrink...

Tottenham have lost nine of their last 16 Premier League games - only Wolves (12) have lost more since mid-April.

You can make stats paint any picture you want, yours in particular, but you know your run is stad padded with farmer teams. Whilst sure it is a positive, the more pertinent stat is the one I posted. It's fucking awful.

9 defeats in the last 16 games? Only Wolves have been worse. Putrid.

 

[SpursUpNorth]

Enic will give Ange time, what time to we will have to see but for me at least until the end of this season that means another transfer window for AP to add too and delete from the squad. I think the man's ethos is to be applauded and he has change many things at THFC for the better in his tenure so far. He has and does frustrate the life out of me with this rigid approach to how he wants to play every single game, but I believe he will soften on this intensity, I believe he will have to and if he does then I also believe with what else he has already brought to the club we have a manager with the potential to take us to the next level. COYS!

Click to shrink...

You think? Our history with them doesn't back that.. Last decade the managers averaged on less than a year.

I really hope you're right though, as we need to give someone to implement their players and style over time. The most succesful clubs are able to do that

 

[Phomesy]

A 3 at the back formation could actually work now because we have three capable CBs.

Click to shrink...

Um... Not so sure about that as Cuti and VDV can't seem to defend below the 12 yard box anymore

Maybe if still playing a high line (which I think Amorim does?) - but it's all moot now as he's gone to United and we were never going to hire him at the time the decision needed to be made (post Conte)

Anyway I accept your reservations about Ange but I think Shady's also right that Ange fit the bill at the time.

I also think it's better we get behind the manager until he's had two years (unless they lose the dressing room or get us into relegation trouble) - because doing otherwise causes more harm than good. Imo

 

[BlackLips]

Tottenham have lost nine of their last 16 Premier League games - only Wolves (12) have lost more since mid-April.

You can make stats paint any picture you want, yours in particular, but you know your run is stad padded with farmer teams. Whilst sure it is a positive, the more pertinent stat is the one I posted. It's fucking awful.

9 defeats in the last 16 games? Only Wolves have been worse. Putrid.

Click to shrink...

Eh that’s a very specific timeline and specific stat to be negative about. Starting exactly when we had a rough run of fixtures last year and bad form. This season we are 8th. Underlying stats show we are probably better. 3rd in goal difference. Defensively better. Some lapses cost us points for sure.

Also, losses are overrated in comparison to draws. We just rarely draw and seem to have been that way for a few years. We’ve been either fewest or second fewest draws each year over the past 4 seasons. It’s why we seem so helter skelter but also why we were still in it for top 4 in Contes last year (until he got fired and we collapsed). This is in comparison to some Poch years where the draws really held us back. Win and loss is one more point than 2 draws but the panic after the former is much worse.

 

[Shadydan]

Look man, I am not going to get into this again, I already said what I had to say, answered your questions, but I see we’re going in circles. If you think we have to "start over" if Postecoglou leaves I just think you’re massively deluded. There have been lots of examples of managers who took over mid-season and produced results.

A 3 at the back formation could actually work now because we have three capable CBs.

Click to shrink...

You're not gonna get into it again but you got into it again

You said this before by the way and I asked you why you're comparing our situation with everyone else and I said that every situation is unique from everyone else's, besides you may be able to find examples of managers where it doesn't work

 

[Aphex]

Eh that’s a very specific timeline and specific stat to be negative about. Starting exactly when we had a rough run of fixtures last year and bad form. This season we are 8th. Underlying stats show we are probably better. 3rd in goal difference. Defensively better. Some lapses cost us points for sure.

Also, losses are overrated in comparison to draws. We just rarely draw and seem to have been that way for a few years. We’ve been either fewest or second fewest draws each year over the past 4 seasons. It’s why we seem so helter skelter but also why we were still in it for top 4 in Contes last year (until he got fired and we collapsed). This is in comparison to some Poch years where the draws really held us back. Win and loss is one more point than 2 draws but the panic after the former is much worse.

Click to shrink...

It's not a specific timeline is it though. If you use any streak less than 16 games which by the way is almost half a season it's all just as bad.

Are you saying we should go back further to make the stats sound better? How far do we go back? 30 games?

The most recent run of results is always the most important, not what happened in the first 10 games of last season which was over a year ago.

I just find it quite ridiculous that some people are so desperate to play down what a horrendous run of PL results that is. And instead to point to stufflike our goal difference and underlying stats. They mean fk all really. Results are what matters.

Look I'm not saying you should turn on Ange, or even think it means we are going to have a crap season. But admit it, that is a extremely concerning sizeable run of most recent results which does not paint a pretty picture of Ange and his management.

9 losses in 16, it's borderline a sackable offence alone tbh for a club like ours.

 

[sudoku]

Eight wins out of 10, do you deserve more credit?

You get what you deserve so I probably deserve whatever I am getting. I think it is fair enough depending on your outlook. Whether it is deserved or not, I try to make the point that criticism and scrutiny is healthy because it allows you to reflect on your beliefs and your convictions. Because if you are going to flinch at the first time people are critical or want you to change your path then it probably means you are not definite about what you are doing.

It's not something I think 'ah we are copping too much criticism' or unwanted criticism. In fact, if it is unwanted even more that we shouldn't react to it. It is up to us how we behave in that environment because I don't think that ever changes. Even if we went on another fantastic run, at the first sign of us maybe faltering the same sort of questions would come because it is kind of where we are at as a club at the moment.

Until we have success then I think that is always going to be the first thing people come at us about as a club and you have got to accept that. It is part of our journey and part of us becoming stronger. And like I said, having real conviction in what we do.

I have said it to the players, if you want to grow a beautiful garden you have to handle some fertilizer. That is the only way it will happen.

 

[dudu]

Eight wins out of 10, do you deserve more credit?

You get what you deserve so I probably deserve whatever I am getting. I think it is fair enough depending on your outlook. Whether it is deserved or not, I try to make the point that criticism and scrutiny is healthy because it allows you to reflect on your beliefs and your convictions. Because if you are going to flinch at the first time people are critical or want you to change your path then it probably means you are not definite about what you are doing.

It's not something I think 'ah we are copping too much criticism' or unwanted criticism. In fact, if it is unwanted even more that we shouldn't react to it. It is up to us how we behave in that environment because I don't think that ever changes. Even if we went on another fantastic run, at the first sign of us maybe faltering the same sort of questions would come because it is kind of where we are at as a club at the moment.

Until we have success then I think that is always going to be the first thing people come at us about as a club and you have got to accept that. It is part of our journey and part of us becoming stronger. And like I said, having real conviction in what we do.

I have said it to the players, if you want to grow a beautiful garden you have to handle some fertilizer. That is the only way it will happen.

Plenty of shit in this thread from the ice dancing fans and those who are living in a time warp.
Last season is over, you wombats.

Click to shrink...