i dont think a lot of fans actually understand what the UEFA cup was back in the day.
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Manager Ange Postecoglou
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well once he's gone (which seems very likely) maybe everyone will just let go of their Ange hate, or Ange love and just enjoy that moment in Bilbao instead of coming up with bollox for why it's not special
I genuinely don't think anyone regards that night as 'not special' in it's own right. It was a horrible game to watch for most viewers, but for us it was an incredible display of fight and resilience. Best night I've had in many years (sorry Mrs LLB).
This thread is simply asking whether that performance justifies keeping a manager who otherwise has been struggling for 18 months. My argument is that it doesn't, and we shouldn't confuse a great result with a turning point in performance.
I mean, it is really. We have played plenty of shit teams and not beaten them under better managers.
Beating United 4 times in a season, no matter how crap they are, when we are similarly crap is a big deal - there is a reason they were favourites in the final. Not because of their footballing prowess but because of their general club history and them actually winning trophies against opposition much better than we were last season, because they are Man U.
No one is saying it does, people are just saying nothing about the final justifies sacking him. It should be off the table as part of the discussion - an irrelevance. A one-off game.
To go from suicidal high line, high-pressing, inverted possession based football and completely change it with a single minded adherence to low block, mistake minimising, fiercely concentrated win ugly football is a spectacular change of approach to pull off mid-season. It can only happen with a core group of players and a manager who are entirely in synch with eath other and believe in the stated goal.
It was spectacular and, no, none of it means he should be our manager after that league season.
However, I would just suggest that it does place a premium on his successor. They are walking into a joint with CL football and not very great footballers. They will need maximum buy in from the squad (whoever is left after summer)
I'd definitely NEVER say the final justifies sacking him, that would be nuts. It just doesn't justify keeping him.
It is relevant and it isn't, depends on the reason you're debating it.
Had we finished in the top 10 in the league for example, been alright in the league, and won the Europa in the same fashion, the majority of people wouldn't have cared about how we played.
Because we've been so poor all season, Ange in/out is the major talking point, and many inners are pointing to the Europa win as evidence, so the manner of winning it becomes the talking point.
Cup finals are often drab affairs, if not for all of the should he stay should he go talk, almost nobody would be talking about the match itself now.
Well, posting the stats from it kind of intimates that you were - ultimately - he will go because we finished 17th in the league.
He got us to two semi-finals and one final this year - the only two decent things he did.
Whilst I don’t think it’s enough to keep Ange on, winning the cup was more than the result. It was us eventually getting over the line that’s the big thing. Having a team that’s won something.
We’ve spent decades playing good football, bad football, being attacking, being defensive, world class managers (one still winning, one past his best), young up and coming managers, defensive managers, iPad managers, etc. We’ve tried the lot.
Ange is the only one who got us over the line. Doesn’t matter who we played, or how we played. He’s the first one in decades to be able to lift a trophy. I can certainly see the argument to let him carry on due to this.
We’ve spent decades playing good football, bad football, being attacking, being defensive, world class managers (one still winning, one past his best), young up and coming managers, defensive managers, iPad managers, etc. We’ve tried the lot.
Ange is the only one who got us over the line. Doesn’t matter who we played, or how we played. He’s the first one in decades to be able to lift a trophy. I can certainly see the argument to let him carry on due to this.
It's fucking incredible, the lengths that people will go to to downplay that win
Same people who would have moaned had we played 'Ange ball' in the final, dominated Utd and got picked off on the counter.
This thread is batshit mental
The "but what did he/we win" folks have turned to "but how did we win"
Mental
Going ultra defensive low block is one of the easiest tricks in football. It requires the least amount of coaching. Di Matteo did it with Chelsea mid season to beat Barcelona and Bayern Munich and to win an FA cup.
Sorry but I’ll accept job well done but spectacular? No. We didn’t low block our way through anyone good, or even creative. If we’d achieved that style against a serious, top level side you might be right.
I was impressed by Frankfurt - to go there and beat them was a legitimate result.
Really? Blimey.
We are stuck in quicksand.
I am gobsmacked at what people are conflating and how so much is presumed because we won a cup competition.
It really is unfathomable to me.
We did win which was great but we could so easily have lost. We didn't. But.....
To me its like Villa or Woolwich sacking Emery and Arteta for not winning anything, despite obvious progress. It would be just as illogical as keeping Postecoglou for obvious overall decline. That simple, or I thought it was..
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He simply has to go. He will deliver a very similar PL season with the added pressures of the CL, which is way above the Europa level, literally out of sight.
Thank him profusely, cement his place in history, pay him off correctly, and appoint someone considerably better. Easier said than done I admit but we are meant to be a professional setup. It's their job to get that right. We are a very attractive package to manage next season.
Thank him profusely, cement his place in history, pay him off correctly, and appoint someone considerably better. Easier said than done I admit but we are meant to be a professional setup. It's their job to get that right. We are a very attractive package to manage next season.
As I said above - if Solanke doesn't fluff his touch to score what should have been a fairly easy goal that final would be regarded as the finishing touch of a defensive based Cup run as good as any devised by Mourinho. It started with Frankfurt, continued with Bodo and for 80 minutes United couldn't get a sniff. Against a side that leaked record numbers of goals in the league.
It's not hard to recognise this AND ALSO think the league result means a change should/must be made.
The best TFC cunt-offs are the ones where most people kinda agree but decide to beef with each other anyway out of boredom.
As I said, not enough to keep him in my opinion - just can see a world where it is for the club.
And we could have lost. We’ve lost loads of important matches in the years since we won a pot. Lots of fine teams and managers have failed to get us there. Ange succeeded. It’s more than one match. More than one win. That’s the progress I can see being part of the club’s decision.
It’s mad how people try to spin it , would have been the same has we won the league cup as it isn’t a “proper” trophy.
Regardless of any dislike for Ange , the reason the “Spursy” narrative exists is plenty of times in the past when we have a so called easy draw , we always found a way to fuck it up, I really didn’t want United in the final , then add in losing Maddison, Kulu and Bergvail , the win was anything but a given, so even though I’m not one of Anges biggest fans I just hope the win he helped us get is a stepping stone for us as a club, we have got the trophy monkey off our back , what happens next is massive , I just hope we don’t fuck it up
"It doesn't count because we didn't create more than 0.5xg"
I don’t think I’m downplaying that particular achievement.
Just saying that if you were willing to sack Ange pre-Final (and basically everyone was) that was with the knowledge that he beat United 3x this season. So clearly it wasn’t some massive indicator in his favour.