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Manager Antonio Conte

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postbox said:
Honestly dont really agree here.

Despite how bad things look now I think Mourinho had more than enough quality in the squad to play good and even successful football.

What was exposed was his lack of ability in the now, his methods and tactics not working, not a lack of quality at his disposal.
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The we shall agree to disagree. No one can convince me of this mythical quality that so many are talking about. What I see is a longstanding lack of technical ability and athleticism...and only in the rare situation do they reside in the same player...and that's before even going into footballing IQ. Whether or not we could have played more attractive football is another matter. but that's jsut my opinion. But I would ask you when was the last time you saw any of these players play attractive football?
postbox said:
Its clear Conte likes to buy players to suit him, cant argue with that - but he has just won the league for the first time in a decade for Inter - with a geriatric Ashley Young and Victor bloody Moses as wing backs - suggests to me he needs a certain skillset in a player rather than just expensive players.
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Sure. The exact way recruitment should work.
postbox said:
Edit: Incidentally, reading up on his successful seasons etc, Moses is a nice example of him developing players to suit him as well. Also the like of Lukaku actually starting to fullfil potential under him - Im not sure its entirely fair to just call him a chequebook manager ala Mourinho
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Perhaps I wasn't clear. I was only referring to Mou as a chequebook manager. for me spending big is not the same as being a chequebook manager. Pep spends but everyone can see his imprint. Mou needs to spend to cover his flaws.
 
YidZecke said:
Fast and brave counter-attacking football can be very attractive in my eyes.
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Sure, but that wasn't the point in contention ie it's attractiveness.
YidZecke said:
I surely prefer (situational) Forechecking, but compared to possession football with slow build-up play counter-attacking can be at least as exciting.
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Don't mind either...unless that is the only way of attacking. How about a compromise? Possession-based football with quick, surgical, vertical passing moments? And those passes not being made by Eric Dier.
 
todd1882 said:
The we shall agree to disagree. No one can convince me of this mythical quality that so many are talking about. What I see is a longstanding lack of technical ability and athleticism...and only in the rare situation do they reside in the same player...and that's before even going into footballing IQ. Whether or not we could have played more attractive football is another matter. but that's jsut my opinion. But I would ask you when was the last time you saw any of these players play attractive football?
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A long time ago, since before Poch left - lets be honest.

We had a peak under him a good while before he left, and somehow it became more pragmatic and then more of a grind and then just appalling.

I cant tell you that you play these players in this way and all will miraculously be great, and I certainly think the squad needs some refreshing - in both players being sold as well as bought.

However, I cant look at the like of Kane, Son, Alli, Lo Celso, NDombele, Reguillon, Bergwijn, Hoijberg and Alderweireld and not see the bones/basis of a very good side.

That Mourinho saw what was a poor defence and good attack and decided to make the team ultra defensive, that he saw a team used to high pressing/intensity and made them stale and lethargic - thats on him and bad management - not the players/quality at hand IMO.
 
postbox said:
We had a peak under him a good while before he left, and somehow it became more pragmatic and then more of a grind and then just appalling.
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...as the unreplaced and unfortified MF went away. Amazing how that happens. Piece by piece we got shittier and shittier and our play reflected it.

postbox said:
However, I cant look at the like of Kane, Son, Alli, Lo Celso, NDombele, Reguillon, Bergwijn, Hoijberg and Alderweireld and not see the bones/basis of a very good side.
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I can...and if I were an opposing team only 1 maybe 2 players would worry me there. If you gave me money this summer I could and would easily upgrade on 6 of those and sell 2 others. Toby is old and slow and shouldn't be relied upon to be #1 and is better as a backup. Hoijberg is a bumper car with little MF composure for the highest level of the game. Reguilon lacks defensively and technically though he is up for it. Alli is shite and I've been wanting to see the back of him for 4+ seasons now. Bergwijn has shown nothing to assure me he'll 'come good'. Ndom, who I love and have watched since his Lyon days, still has a ways to go to prove it. GLC can't stay healthy and still has it all to prove. And I'd happily sell Kane and Sonny this summer. And I would use that money for replacements and competition.

postbox said:
That Mourinho saw what was a poor defence and good attack and decided to make the team ultra defensive, that he saw a team used to high pressing/intensity and made them stale and lethargic - thats on him and bad management - not the players/quality at hand IMO.
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So why were they shit for Poch since Jan 18 then? Nothing to do with Mou.
 
todd1882 said:
So why were they shit for Poch since Jan 18 then? Nothing to do with Mou.
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On all else I think, as you said - we'll agree to disagree. Hopefully by mid season you'll be messaging me to say "actually, you might have had a point and this team isnt bad at all". Would mean Spurs are on the up, wouldnt it?

On this point though, its just a long story, isnt it? By that point eveyone seemed exhausted, and Poch completely burned out. I think theres argument to say its management the issue still, not just the players.

And I do really believe there is more to come from that group than we have seen in a long time, which means something is wrong in the way they are being lead/trained/organised.

Another agree to disagree, I suspect.
 
todd1882 said:
Sure, but that wasn't the point in contention ie it's attractiveness.

Don't mind either...unless that is the only way of attacking. How about a compromise? Possession-based football with quick, surgical, vertical passing moments? And those passes not being made by Eric Dier
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Well, ideally there is also a factor in who we play and their weaknesses/strengths. I was even ok with Mous approach against the likes of City, but fuck me with every game deploying negative tactics like that against average teams I am loosing interest in football. I guess we agree on some degree of risk needed.
 
YidZecke said:
Well, ideally there is also a factor in who we play and their weaknesses/strengths. I was even ok with Mous approach against the likes of City, but fuck me with every game deploying negative tactics like that against average teams I am loosing interest in football. I guess we agree on some degree of risk needed.
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It's wrong calling Mourinhos tactics "defensive".

Fuck knows how many wins we have given away on 1 goal deficits.

The football was "negative".

Not just as in bad and uninspiring. It was designed to negate the opposition, kill games and rely on individual moments of brilliance from key players on each team in very, very low numbers of key situations per game, to decide results.

In scandinavia some coaches call it "Football of fine margins".
 
If we were in the upsidr I would take Conte. But I'm not sure he can do much with this squad and the way he plays football. Remember at the start of the season, there were talks of him being fired at Inter.
His football won't be good watch. Similar to Allegri, but Allegri is more open to changes in tactics.

He's proven winner, that's for sure, but not god fit for Spurs at the moment.
 
CroSpurs said:
If we were in the upsidr I would take Conte. But I'm not sure he can do much with this squad and the way he plays football. Remember at the start of the season, there were talks of him being fired at Inter.
His football won't be good watch. Similar to Allegri, but Allegri is more open to changes in tactics.

He's proven winner, that's for sure, but not god fit for Spurs at the moment.
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I thought Conte was yesterday?
 
todd1882 said:
Amazing I've seen folks wanting this prick...another 'winner' for the quick fix. And another Chelsea reject at that. And the football is shit too. Wasn't that a complaint? Is it as negative as Mou? No, but it ain't progressive football.

Some idiots will never learn...no matter how fucking big the lesson.
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It’s a good point.

It’s also worth mentioning that Conte has pretty much always had the best team in the league when he’s won his titles. (Last seasons Serie A included the weakest Juve team with a rookie manager who’s about to be sacked)

And when he won the league with the Chavs, he was outrageously lucky that he had no European football whatsoever which allowed him to play the same fresh team week in, week out.

Im not saying he’d be a bad appointment, but I don’t think he’d be this Pep/Klopp level one some fans are making him out to be.
 
todd1882 said:
And he was a Chelsea reject too. but he is not the focus of this tete a tete. Conte is the focus and he is also a Chelsea reject that downed tools on the club and was wantd out by most of the fanbase even after winning the league the season prior.
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Spurs can’t be turning their noses up at a manger like Conte. It would be criminal
 
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