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BUYLEDLEYNEWKNEES said:
We have unquestionably improved under ENIC. That's just a fact. As we have improved the standard of the league had improved, well the top 10. I think the brief success we had with a brilliantly talented and fairly cheap squad has just made the fans demand more. The rift between enic and the fans is because we have failed to continuously get champions league and build from there. Not being as good as we where last year is enough to rile fans. The fact our rise coincided with Citeh being bought by billioniares is a bit of a kick in the teeth, so is Chelsea ruining our second fourth place finish which again could of helped us attract those more lucrative names and keep the ones we already had.
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I agree we have slightly improved under ENIC overall, but one trophy in 13 years is regression not progress, compared to our normal rate of trophy collection (pre ENIC about one trophy every 6/7 years)

Surely trophies are the ultimate judge of progress, though it is good without doubt our financial and league positions have improved under them.
 
LarryCatt said:
It really isn't. Managers like LvG, de Boer, Pochettino, Benitez wouldn't be hitching their skirts for us if that was remotely true.

There's a massive, huge, yawning chasm of difference between the self flagellation that creates self fulfilling hate circles in the virtual world and actual reality.
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So is not White Hart Lane part of reality? Surely it's the most important part for our club, and that place is a toxic bear pit far too often. Our home support was a disgrace when I gave up going the season before last, apparently it's been worse this last season.

Of course managers want to try their luck at on of the ten biggest clubs in England and probably one of the 20 biggest clubs in Europe. Let's hope they can deal with our fans expectations, maybe the fans will be nicer to the new boss than they were to Tim.
 
Greaves357_bestever said:
So is not White Hart Lane part of reality? Surely it's the most important part for our club, and that place is a toxic bear pit far too often. Our home support was a disgrace when I gave up going the season before last, apparently it's been worse this last season.

Of course managers want to try their luck at on of the ten biggest clubs in England and probably one of the 20 biggest clubs in Europe. Let's hope they can deal with our fans expectations, maybe the fans will be nicer to the new boss than they were to Tim.
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It's been quiet - no atmopshere but in no way "toxic". AvB wasn't openly slated, neither, to be fair, was Sherwood. Few mumblings here and there but nowhere near the vitriol or in-fighting that was aimed at Gross, Francis or Graham
 
Greaves357_bestever said:
So is not White Hart Lane part of reality? Surely it's the most important part for our club, and that place is a toxic bear pit far too often. Our home support was a disgrace when I gave up going the season before last, apparently it's been worse this last season.

Of course managers want to try their luck at on of the ten biggest clubs in England and probably one of the 20 biggest clubs in Europe. Let's hope they can deal with our fans expectations, maybe the fans will be nicer to the new boss than they were to Tim.
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Why did you give up going?
 
LarryCatt said:
It's been quiet - no atmopshere but in no way "toxic". AvB wasn't openly slated, neither, to be fair, was Sherwood. Few mumblings here and there but nowhere near the vitriol or in-fighting that was aimed at Gross, Francis or Graham
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The fan base has changed over the last decade . More apathetic , older , insipid, these are not the
young Sandinistas that tore the gates down through the oppressive Sugar years.
We are in the age of the uncultivated .
 
Fidel Castro said:
The fan base has changed over the last decade . More apathetic , older , insipid, these are not the
young Sandinistas that tore the gates down through the oppressive Sugar years.
We are in the age of the uncultivated .
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They're the same fans.
Try Kierkegaard next time, the pseudo Marxist intellectualism is a bit tiring tbf :dawsonmean:
 
Sorry if I've misread whilst skimming this thread but are people suggesting we've fallen further behind woolwich since they've moved into their bigger stadium?

- Average points between Spurs and Woolwich in the eight years at Emirates: 11
- Average points between Spurs and Woolwich in the eight years before they moved: 27
 
LarryCatt said:
It's been quiet - no atmopshere but in no way "toxic". AvB wasn't openly slated, neither, to be fair, was Sherwood. Few mumblings here and there but nowhere near the vitriol or in-fighting that was aimed at Gross, Francis or Graham
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Fair enough, so people haven't been slagging off our players then. Certainly never used to be the case over the last few years, and I've heard the atmosphere's got worse recently, 'it's poisonous', etc but I haven't been this season, so I'll take your word for it.

It's certainly been toxic in the cyberworld.
 
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Smoked Salmon said:
Why did you give up going?
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Because of our so-called fans. Most of them haven't got a clue how to support the team properly. For me going to the game is about singing for the team, cheering, clapping, having a go at the oppo, (within reason, I don't go for all the nasty Wenger/Campbell whatever stuff).

I found more and more I was getting into 'arguments' with our own fans, it was getting to the edge of violence at times, and I'm not interested in that, but of course at the time I won't back down. So it's just not worth it for me. I grew up watching in Spurs in the 60s, and I'm a creature of the terraces. I was never a hooligan though, but to me football now in the UK is sterile far too often, which is why I love 1882, which is trying to do something about it. The lane is over policed by stewards, the fans in general outside a few sections are more interested in sitting and moaning than standing and singing, etc, etc. Also of course, I'm getting on a bit, and it gets harder to drag yourself out the house on a cold winter's day than it does when you're a kid/young man. I used to think nothing about getting up in the early hours to go to some god-forsaken northern outpost in the 60s/70s, it'd take a helluva lot to get me doing that again :)

Incidentally, last night I hear it was much more fun and like 'old times'. Maybe there was a different supporter profile last night, maybe people just decided football could be fun again, I dunno.

Maybe IF we ever get a new stadium and a different fan profile attending it, I'll start going again. Naturally, assuming I'm still alive, I'll go to the stadium once at least, just for the 'novelty value'.
 
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BushHillSpurs said:
I hear this argument a lot. But it is not the only plus point.
We made £100M from the Bale, Huddlestone and other transfers. We re invested every single last penny back into the club. What other team, who bearing in mind have a new £400M stadium on the way, could say that they would do that?

Levy haters just seem like idiots to me, brutally honest. Sponges who jumped on later.
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And what other club hasn't spent a penny net on players for the last 3 years, and only £6m in the last 5 years. This is not to mention the fact the vile little man tried to move us to East London, and sacked a manager for finishing 4th twice and getting us to the CL quarter final. He is the clubs cancer, and needs removing.
 
Greaves357_bestever said:
Because of our so-called fans. Most of them haven't got a clue how to support the team properly. For me going to the game is about singing for the team, cheering, clapping, having a go at the oppo, (within reason, I don't go for all the nasty Wenger/Campbell whatever stuff).

I found more and more I was getting into 'arguments' with our own fans, it was getting to the edge of violence at times, and I'm not interested in that, but of course at the time I won't back down. So it's just not worth it for me. I grew up watching in Spurs in the 60s, and I'm a creature of the terraces. I was never a hooligan though, but to me football now in the UK is sterile far too often, which is why I love 1882, which is trying to do something about it. The lane is over policed by stewards, the fans in general outside a few sections are more interested in sitting and moaning than standing and singing, etc, etc. Also of course, I'm getting on a bit, and it gets harder to drag yourself out the house on a cold winter's day than it does when you're a kid/young man. I used to think nothing about getting up in the early hours to go to some god-forsaken northern outpost in the 60s/70s, it'd take a helluva lot to get me doing that again :)

Incidentally, last night I hear it was much more fun and like 'old times'. Maybe there was a different supporter profile last night, maybe people just decided football could be fun again, I dunno.

Maybe IF we ever get a new stadium and a different fan profile attending it, I'll start going again. Naturally, assuming I'm still alive, I'll go to the stadium once at least, just for the 'novelty value'.
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It certainly wont improve under an Abramovich...it surprises me that you would rather that, than just be a top 8 club with a real fanbase so you could at least enjoy going again.
 
Greaves357_bestever said:
I agree we have slightly improved under ENIC overall, but one trophy in 13 years is regression not if progress, compared to our normal rate of trophy collection (pre ENIC about one trophy every 6/7 years)

Surely trophies are the ultimate judge of progress, though it is good without doubt our financial and league positions have improved under them.
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Though nowhere near as glorious as a trophy, surely league position kind of correlates progress more acurately. Id take a cup and finish tenth every season If that was an option but id argue league is more accurate in judging progress. Ideally league position and cup success come hand in hand but thats not how it goes these days (Woolwich) ENIC have made some huge mistakes undoubtedly, or our manager at the time, late sales of crucial players, inadequate back ups, not buying a fucking striker in 10/11 january was our biggest cock up. Along with the olympic stadium mistakes have been made. But in all honesty I think we are bloody well run compared to most other premier league sides, probably the one thing thats missing is the opointment of a long term manager, but how many clubs can boast that these days?
 
BUYLEDLEYNEWKNEES said:
Though nowhere near as glorious as a trophy, surely league position kind of correlates progress more acurately. Id take a cup and finish tenth every season If that was an option but id argue league is more accurate in judging progress. Ideally league position and cup success come hand in hand but thats not how it goes these days (Woolwich) ENIC have made some huge mistakes undoubtedly, or our manager at the time, late sales of crucial players, inadequate back ups, not buying a fucking striker in 10/11 january was our biggest cock up. Along with the olympic stadium mistakes have been made. But in all honesty I think we are bloody well run compared to most other premier league sides, probably the one thing thats missing is the opointment of a long term manager, but how many clubs can boast that these days?
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Fair comments. Probably lge positions are a better indicator of progress, but often they don't feel like it. We've just sacked a manager with the best lge win record in our entire lge history, and he was called a know nothing, etc by many of our fans. So it's all a bit confusing ...
 
Greaves357_bestever said:
ENIC have had 13 and a half years in June. We are not vastly better off than we were in the previous 13 and a half years.

.
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Between 1990/91 and 2000/01 our BEST league position was 7th and much of the time we were in the bottom half of the table

Since 2004/05 (with the exception of the Ramos years and aftermath), our worst position has been 6th and typically 5th.

So I really cannot accept your repeated line that we are not better off under ENIC where the league position demonstrates that we are.

If you felt that going back to the 90's would not be much worse - I doubt if many (if any) would agree with you.

Of course things are far from perfect, but at least give them their due there HAS been a significant improvement than the decade before they took control.



.
 
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