-
The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...
Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports
Moyes can be a grumpy old cunt and I’m not a fan of his defensive approach…..
But he deserved to be treated a lot better, saved them from relegation twice.. cleaning up other manger’s messes and won a European trophy.
Grubby little club. Probably a reflection on the owners more so than the fans.
But he deserved to be treated a lot better, saved them from relegation twice.. cleaning up other manger’s messes and won a European trophy.
Grubby little club. Probably a reflection on the owners more so than the fans.
Moyes is actually pretty good at what he does. Managing mid table clubs and being able to get them to overperform.True but Lopetegui‘s football was very shall we say industrial when he was at Wolves to put it mildly.
West Ham fan blog has already come out annoyed at having another defensive caoch
Report: West Ham now deep in negotiations with 'clueless' manager, 1st set of talks went very well
Utterly ridiculous move in my view.www.hammers.news
Lopetegui from what I can recall from when he was at wolves is alright.
But if they’re just going down the same route with a different face I can see why fans are cynical. Instead of actually changing their approach and showing ambition it probably will just be the same old.
They finished 6 points above the relegation zone last season. They had a crap season in the league and most of the fans wanted Moyes out until the ref blow the final whistle in the ECL final. After that most of them felt he deserved to stay but they have been pretty poor this season and hasnt really gone forward.
It's fan-driven........ As "grubby" as their owners are; they won't give the slightest toss about 'style of football'.
No,the fans are grubby as well.
More pornstars in their female fan base percentage wise than any other UK club.
Probably
I may have made this up
Know a lot of west ham fans and you underestimate them, desperate to get rid of moyes and happy to have a go at him
Yeah,the lot I know as well.
They hate the football he plays.
Not what they are use to.
Similar to us ,in that respect.
Honestly Wolves were an absolute shambles in the summer, it wouldn't surprise me if promises weren't kept to him.
They were tipped to go down start of the season. Just shows what an incredible job O'Neil has done for the second season in a row.
That’s fucking hilarious
I disagree with the "overperform" tag.
West Ham have been the 7th and now 8th (Newcastle overtook them last season on revenue) richest club in the PL - 17th/18th richest football club on the planet.
His average league position at West Ham = 11th (4 places below where they should be finishing. I think they finish below Bournemouth & Brighton this year too so ergo 11th)
They underperform so frequently it's a "norm", no one even questions it, so when he has them performing at par he is seen as a miracle worker. A very good manager by any measure is one that has their team perform regularly above their financial position, Moyes has achieved this ONCE when he had them finish 6th, ordinarily, this could be argued as a "par" year but I think in context to them close to relegated the year previously I think it was a very good performance.
Lots of people also cite the ECL as a massive achievement, but the reality is no PL Club should be allowed to play in this comp due to the financial disparity vs the majority of teams playing in this crap comp. Moyes's personal salary was higher than many of the team's total revenue they faced in that year in ECL just to underline the size of the financial disparity.
I thought Moyes was excellent when he was at Everton, here is an example of what I mean about consistently having their team finish above the financial power. Every team that went to Everton knew they were in for a game and had to perform to a high level to come away with a win, in fact, an away draw was always seen as a "good point".
tbf he took over a West ham team in crisis so I'm not sure how much of that first season where he took over mid season and they finished 16th was his fault.
If you look at the three full seasons he's had the average league position is 9th, which is skewed downward because last season they were woeful, he had a season or two like that in Everton as well. This season they've been around 7th which is about on par with their spending level.
This is more subjective of course but transfermarkt also shows rankings based on market value as well and they are 10th in that with 446m. To put that into perspective, they have Newcastle in 8th with 637m.
They were massively overperforming that season the finished 6th, they were only a few points off of 4th and if luck was more on their side they could've possibly gotten CL.
I agree on the ECL, but they did get to a semifinal in the Europa league the year before while finishing in 7th only 2 points off 6th with a much better goal difference than Utd who finished there. They were in the top 5 for much of that season as well.
Moyes is good at getting teams to be midtable and then slightly above that, as his record shows. We've seen clubs that were there with dinosaurs in charge who then fell off a cliff without them.
Genuinely wouldn’t be surprised if that is somebody’s Ph.D thesis.
I wouldn't take any financials off transfer mrkt, for consistency and accuracy I'd go off Dolloitte (obviously financial figures lack context around specific issues in a year in isolation etc but at least the numbers are accurate across all teams).
Even taking out the half years he's been in charge then at 9th is still below their mean. The year he got them to 6th, he couldn't sustain, he's basically gotten worse with every transfer window he's had.
For me his mentality to managing is all about creating a team that tries to stop his opponents from playing (he's a Jose lite), it's a perfect mentality to keep teams from being relegated but if you supported a team that has the financial resources to have a team competing for 7th/8th (which means a "good" season should be 5th/6th) you would expect a manager to actually achieve this consistently, he way off from achieving this.
I think the performance is even worse given the context of his period in charge he has failed to capitalize on Spurs, Liverpool, Man U, Woolwich and Chavs having poo seasons. An example of this working is us, over the last decade we have been the 6th highest rev producer, but our average league finish is 4th over that same time frame.
The two new kids on the block are Villa and Newcastle, given Newcastle's financial backing it feels that they are best placed to remain in the positions relative to their revenues, I don't know enough about Villa's owners but lots of talk that it will continue as it has done since they took over so maybe they too remain consistent challengers for these places. But both these Clubs I'd back over West Ham purely based on who their managers are. They simply play better football. I think Bournemouth are better package by far, I feel this way because they play a better brand of football, same too with Brighton (who I acknowledge have been crap this year but who knew if you sell so many of your best players it will have a detrimental effect on the team). Whilst only a couple of months in my gut says Palace are better football team now with Glasner in charge, but lets see how he has them play without Warton, Olse and Eze!
Guessing:
I am more fearful of West Ham under Lopetegui than Moyes but I think he's a bridge to another more progressive manager in 18/24 months time. I think the aim is to have them play with more control, be more consistent in their league finishes. I see Tim Steidten transitioning them from low block to a possession side within a couple of years. Wolves still primarily a reactive side under him, but he did move them away from a low-block to a more possession-based one, mainly in having them build up from the back, he used the tools at his disposal, and I expect the same at West Ham. The biggest challenge he will have is their defence, not one of them are ball-playing footballers, so this is where their attention will be if they are to play better under him.
Always, my toe-in-the-water test is would I want Moyes to manage us, HELL NO.
9th is about the level I would expect from Moyes to be able to take a team.
He had a similar finish the season after finishing 6th. As for getting worse every transfer window, of course the amount spent is important, but it also has to be balanced.
They have the 8th most expensive team, and Newcastle in 7th have a spend of 200m more. I don’t think it’s as simple as “They’re 8th in spend, so a good manager gets them 6/7th” without looking at the teams competing with them and their spend as well.
The only team who spend less than the who are doing better is Villa because they have a good manager and have done good business as well.
In the case of west ham, Moyes and the director had different visions so Moyes wasn’t even able to get the type of team he wanted. He got that at Everton which is why he was able to do better there.
