He wasn’t playing tho was he ?
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Player Djed Spence
- Thread starter Spursidol
- Start date
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He missed five games at the start of the season with a groin injury
His return from injury was interrupted by international breaks and Europa games. Probably would have come back up to speed faster if they were just league and Carabao cup games
Wonder if u can get a price on him making the WC squad? Might be worth £20 given how he is going at the min and how well he can do a job on both the left and the right.
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Eh? You can't contest facts mate. Spence played when both Porro and Udogie were fit. Like... it literally happened
The only injury that affected Spence's rise through the ranks was the groin injury he himself sustained during the year.
It's all there in my timeline mate.
What a load of garbage.
EL - zero minutes, not even included in the team (!)
EPL - first start in 15th December (!) in 16th round. Up to then he had played 64 minutes. He was available for 12 of these games, so he played 6% (!!) of the minutes. And even out of that 45 came when Udogie had injury. So excluding that part he got 19 (!!!) minutes when both were fit. So NO he did not play in EPL when Porro and Udogie were fit. Saying that someone getting 19 minutes in 11 games (excluding when he came on on HT for U-dog) "played" is factually wrong. He did not play in 98% of the time.
FA Cup - first start in 9th February (!), in Tramworth game got on for extra time only.
Carabao - first start in 19th December (!) he got 2nd half vs Coventry and delivered there as well, but still Udogie started and Spence used as substitute.
So he was actively and consistently ignored until middle of December. By that time we had played 23 games.
I mean okay, up until the two halves (vs Coventry on 18th September and vs ManU 29th September) I can partly understand it. But with those halves he absolutely proved his value and dependability. Then based on Transfermarkt data he missed games 19th Oct to 3rd of November (missing 4 games in roughly two weeks) with injury. But after return it still took 5 weeks (!) until he started a game for us.
But as with many things, question is from what angle you'd prefer to look at it. I see this as clear missed opportunity to ease workload on other players and give Spence minutes.
Only that actually it was 5 weeks (!) period where he could have played (was on bench 10.11.2024 vs Ipswich; started first game of the season 15.12.2024).
But sure. 2, max 3 games.
Don't let facts get in your way here
!Only that actually it was 5 weeks (!) period where he could have played (was on bench 10.11.2024 vs Ipswich; started first game of the season 15.12.2024).
But sure. 2, max 3 games.
Don't let facts get in your way here
He played as a substitute on the first game of the Season. He was the first defensive sub used
He was not.
I laid out numbers - up until 15.12.2024 he played total of 2% of minutes he was available for.
Two percent. So 98% he did not play. By choice of manager.
Things are not black and white. Everything is on the scale.
But on scale that starts with 0 and ends in 100 (also known as percentages) - he was on 2 for playing and on 98 for not playing.
Regarding minutes he was available for (!) .
And 2 is extremely close to 0. 98 is extremely close to 100 (just for quick reminder).
And based on what we've seen in recent weeks (but also what we saw against Coventry and ManU already in September!) I DID belive then and DO believe now that he should have played more.
Leicester City away Aug 19. PL matchday 1.
Spence subbed on for goal scorer Pedro Porro
Everton home Aug 24. PL matchday 2
Spence subbed on for Destiny Udogie
He was the first defensive sub for the first 2 matchdays of the season. In no way whatsoever is that an afterthought.
Don’t let facts get in your way though,
This is boring mate. Give it a rest.
My only grip with him on sunday is he was always in a good position yet he passed to Son who run into the united defenders, thats not a Djed issue, thats obviously what hehas been told to do, I really hope with Udogie back in contention we can see Djed start on the right!
We have a player on our hands here and I know ange gets a lot of stick in that he should have played him sooner, but you could also look at it in another way which is multiple clubs failed to get the best out of him and under Ange he has become a PL starter - new contract needed in the summer before other clubs come sniffing about.
We have a player on our hands here and I know ange gets a lot of stick in that he should have played him sooner, but you could also look at it in another way which is multiple clubs failed to get the best out of him and under Ange he has become a PL starter - new contract needed in the summer before other clubs come sniffing about.
Could you please link to this "case" please? I've looked and can't find anything you've written that includes actual evidence as opposed to conjecture. We've had this discussion before - none of your conjecture holds up to the actual evidence. Sorry. Fact don't respect your "feelings".
Sigh. Someone else who acts on feelings rather than addressing the facts as outlined in the timeline.
This was a lack of trust in Brandon Austin rather than Djed Spence. I addressed this in the timeline here:
You may wish to conjecture that Spence was left out of EL because he was an "afterthought" but that is nothing more than conjecture. The far more plausible answer is above.
You are, of course, forgetting that Spence was a fringe player who was about to be sold in July. Second chance means starting from the bottom and earning trust and belief from teammates and coaches. The timeline shows exactly that happening incrementally until Spence gets injured.
In his first EPL start neither Porro nor Udogie were injured. Spence rotated for the 1st choice RB in Porro who was on the bench. This is exactly how it's supposed to work and, presumably, would have happened sooner but for Spence's groin injury.
Spence was rested against Tamworth. He had already broken into 1st Team squad. How on earth is this a slight on Spence?
Spence was injured in our Carabao cup tie Vs City so, again, this is a bizarre complaint. As a fringe player he got 45 against Coventry and impressed against a lower league opponent. He then started the next Carabao Cup game he was fit for.
No we wasn't "ignored" He had been slowly but surely integrated into the first team squad starting from the very first game of the season, then got injured. When he returned from injury he did indeed spend unused time on the bench which I address in the timelime here:
The salient point here being that Porro and Udogie were both fit and played every game during this stretch. Personally I feel that Spence is better than both of them but ALL managers trust their 1st choice players in times of trouble. Hopefully now Spence is considered 1st choice.
I definitely agree with this latter bit. But I've been a Spence fan since he was bought. I'm hugely glad he was given a second chance and even happier he's taken it so brilliantly.
But the facts are these: he was given a second chance. He was being integrated into the first team rotation. This process was slowed by injury and the unfortunate decision not to trust Brandon Austin as 2nd choice GK.
There is nothing to suggest he was just "an afterthought"; nor that he "only got opportunities because of injury". This is simply not true and the people saying it - even after its been spelled out time and time again - are definitely "choosing an angle they prefer to look at at"- it's just a bullshit angle not supported by any facts.
He came on for 1 minute on matchday 2.
But hey, mr "small sample size". We are discussing period until his first start.
Why do you pick 2 games (in which he also got fraction of the playing time) and decide to ignore everything else? Or is that just more convient now to make a totally random pick?
People here are clearly not talking about 1 or even 17 minute appearances (first 2 games you mentioned). When we played 2 games per week, he could have been used to give rest for full match for either Porro or Udogie.
Be everything else as that be.
It 100% is true that he was afterthought and only used when there were no options.
Literally - his first start came on 15th December. So until then he did not get real chance.
Partly due to the reasons you yourself admit as well. So I feel we are if not on the same page then at least reading the same book (meaning leaving him out of EL was mistake as was not giving any real minutes in 5-week period after him coming back)
?! No?Other sub appearances were longer.
He wasn’t an afterthought, he was part of the plan. He just had to be patient and he was. Now he’s flying.
The rest is noise.
You are giving him way more words than he’s prepared to listen to.
Even if all those words are the truth.
Gifting Spence games early in the season would have been bad man management given his reputation. He was made to earn it so that he could show he could be trusted. Now he and the club benefit.
This is %100 not true, I'm afraid. I've shown this over and over. How many times do you have to be told that Porro and Udogie were both fit when Spence started against Southampton? That is the complete opposite of "no options". It's simply factually incorrect - it's weird that you keep saying it. It indicates that you are blindly asserting a falsehood to protect a false premise.
Literally - his first start came on 15th December. So until then he did not get real chance.
Partly due to the reasons you yourself admit as well. So I feel we are if not on the same page then at least reading the same book (meaning leaving him out of EL was mistake as was not giving any real minutes in 5-week period after him coming back)
I've already conceded it was a mistake not to give Spence more chances when he returned from injury BUT, again, not only were Porro and Udogie both fit and ahead of him in the pecking order but so was Archie Gray.
Spence was 3rd banana in his position (RB) at the start of the season. He was a fringe player about to be flogged off to Genoa. That is the reality.
Given that reality the timeline shows a perfectly normal trajectory of a fringe player being integrated into the squad. The fact that Spence is so damn good he's now gone past all of those players is fucking awesome. It would have happened earlier but for his injury and the unfortunate decision not to trust Brandon Austin in the EL.
It's a good thing.
This 98% and 2% timeline was up until 15th December.
I have never argued that he has been included since then. Who has? And how could any really?
My point and critique is fairly simple- I did believe then and do believe now - he should have played lot more in space between start of season to 15th December. And given full games off for Porro and Udogie.
Btw in the end what we talk about here are Ange decisions, right (cause pretty sure Spence would have liked to play more himself)? And then mentioning Gray being ahead of him is another plain mistake to me. Don't get me wrong - I love Archie. But he is not a fullback, he does not have that acceleration. Playing Gray in fullback positions ahead of Spence is another clear mistake in my books.