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Player Djed Spence

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TheSpurEst said:
Playing Gray in fullback positions ahead of Spence is another clear mistake in my books.
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Have you heard the one about Gray having a clause in his contract that if he doesn't play a certain amount of minutes for Spurs, this season, he can be transferred elsewhere for the same price Spurs paid?

Ange's hands may have been tied by this if it is true.

Spence may also have been left out of the side completely to protect the value of Porro; who cost 34 mi££ion.

Maybe the miser spins many webs we don't see?
 
Phomesy said:
Could you please link to this "case" please? I've looked and can't find anything you've written that includes actual evidence as opposed to conjecture. We've had this discussion before - none of your conjecture holds up to the actual evidence. Sorry. Fact don't respect your "feelings". 🤷‍♂️
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Here the post. You could have easily searched it up, or just read it when I posted it.

You asserting that you have sole control of the facts is immensely arrogant. It's hilarious you think that just because Spence made a minute or two appearance in a 1 or 2 games that that represents a genuine interest in integrating him. It's even more hilarious that you represent this as "facts"- as if you know exactly what is going on in Ange's head.

I don't see any reason for you to be such an ass about all of this except that you must have some sort of personal agenda in defending Ange.
 
Phomesy said:
Sigh. Someone else who acts on feelings rather than addressing the facts as outlined in the timeline.



This was a lack of trust in Brandon Austin rather than Djed Spence. I addressed this in the timeline here:



You may wish to conjecture that Spence was left out of EL because he was an "afterthought" but that is nothing more than conjecture. The far more plausible answer is above.



You are, of course, forgetting that Spence was a fringe player who was about to be sold in July. Second chance means starting from the bottom and earning trust and belief from teammates and coaches. The timeline shows exactly that happening incrementally until Spence gets injured.

In his first EPL start neither Porro nor Udogie were injured. Spence rotated for the 1st choice RB in Porro who was on the bench. This is exactly how it's supposed to work and, presumably, would have happened sooner but for Spence's groin injury.



Spence was rested against Tamworth. He had already broken into 1st Team squad. How on earth is this a slight on Spence?



Spence was injured in our Carabao cup tie Vs City so, again, this is a bizarre complaint. As a fringe player he got 45 against Coventry and impressed against a lower league opponent. He then started the next Carabao Cup game he was fit for.



No we wasn't "ignored" He had been slowly but surely integrated into the first team squad starting from the very first game of the season, then got injured. When he returned from injury he did indeed spend unused time on the bench which I address in the timelime here:



The salient point here being that Porro and Udogie were both fit and played every game during this stretch. Personally I feel that Spence is better than both of them but ALL managers trust their 1st choice players in times of trouble. Hopefully now Spence is considered 1st choice.



I definitely agree with this latter bit. But I've been a Spence fan since he was bought. I'm hugely glad he was given a second chance and even happier he's taken it so brilliantly.

But the facts are these: he was given a second chance. He was being integrated into the first team rotation. This process was slowed by injury and the unfortunate decision not to trust Brandon Austin as 2nd choice GK.

There is nothing to suggest he was just "an afterthought"; nor that he "only got opportunities because of injury". This is simply not true and the people saying it - even after its been spelled out time and time again - are definitely "choosing an angle they prefer to look at at"- it's just a bullshit angle not supported by any facts.
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This- is your opinion- you speculate widely in here. Nothing more. It is certainly not "facts".
 
Richard Arlison said:
Leicester City away Aug 19. PL matchday 1.
Spence subbed on for goal scorer Pedro Porro

Everton home Aug 24. PL matchday 2
Spence subbed on for Destiny Udogie

He was the first defensive sub for the first 2 matchdays of the season. In no way whatsoever is that an afterthought.

Don’t let facts get in your way though,

This is boring mate. Give it a rest.
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You talk a lot of shite, mate, going to my ignore list for being deluded
 
Fattynomates said:
My only grip with him on sunday is he was always in a good position yet he passed to Son who run into the united defenders, thats not a Djed issue, thats obviously what hehas been told to do, I really hope with Udogie back in contention we can see Djed start on the right!
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Think partially it was also caused by the fact that he received ball very deep on our half a lot, and had to put a lot of energy to carry the it into opponents half either with dribble or by playing quick 1-2 combination with midfielders. And after that it was easier to just let Son have a ball and rest a little.
 
TheSpurEst said:
He was not.

I laid out numbers - up until 15.12.2024 he played total of 2% of minutes he was available for.
Two percent. So 98% he did not play. By choice of manager.

Things are not black and white. Everything is on the scale.
But on scale that starts with 0 and ends in 100 (also known as percentages) - he was on 2 for playing and on 98 for not playing.
Regarding minutes he was available for (!) .

And 2 is extremely close to 0. 98 is extremely close to 100 (just for quick reminder).

And based on what we've seen in recent weeks (but also what we saw against Coventry and ManU already in September!) I DID belive then and DO believe now that he should have played more.
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Yeah, Dickie Arlison not doing himself any favours here. All long and winding, desperately tortuous even, roads lead to a contorted defense of Ange at all costs.

Fact is Ange hardly ever played Spence until injuries forced him. Why? We don't really know know on the spectrum between "Got it wrong" and "Bad attitude".

To pretend Ange was playing Spence much pre-injury is the stuff of fairies at the bottom of the garden.
 
TheSpurEst said:
This 98% and 2% timeline was up until 15th December.
I have never argued that he has been included since then. Who has? And how could any really?

My point and critique is fairly simple- I did believe then and do believe now - he should have played lot more in space between start of season to 15th December. And given full games off for Porro and Udogie.

Btw in the end what we talk about here are Ange decisions, right (cause pretty sure Spence would have liked to play more himself)? And then mentioning Gray being ahead of him is another plain mistake to me. Don't get me wrong - I love Archie. But he is not a fullback, he does not have that acceleration. Playing Gray in fullback positions ahead of Spence is another clear mistake in my books.
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Gray was awful at FB vs Roma. I like Gray too. He might even - at £40m odd - turn out to be a good buy. Can't recall which domestic games he played at FB that Spence could have played? Probably were a few?

Anyway, both very good players. Probably two of our best three or four players of the season
 
Kosher Kid said:
Have you heard the one about Gray having a clause in his contract that if he doesn't play a certain amount of minutes for Spurs, this season, he can be transferred elsewhere for the same price Spurs paid?

Ange's hands may have been tied by this if it is true.

Spence may also have been left out of the side completely to protect the value of Porro; who cost 34 mi££ion.

Maybe the miser spins many webs we don't see?
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Never my cheap ass chairman would buy a 20m dollar option before signing that contract
 
bk_spur said:
This- is your opinion- you speculate widely in here. Nothing more. It is certainly not "facts".
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Sorry? Which part is conjecture that I do not openly acknowledge as such?

And why do you not address any of the many, actual facts contained within my post?

Please: go line by line through the post - and indeed my original timeline - and counter any facts, or indeed, any conjecture contained within.

I'm happy to engage with actual argument but just flat out lying about the content of my posts makes you look a little weird. 🤷‍♂️
 
bk_spur said:
Here the post. You could have easily searched it up, or just read it when I posted it.
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That link goes to Telegram not to TFC - so... not sure what the hell you're on about.

bk_spur said:
You asserting that you have sole control of the facts is immensely arrogant. It's hilarious you think that just because Spence made a minute or two appearance in a 1 or 2 games that that represents a genuine interest in integrating him. It's even more hilarious that you represent this as "facts"- as if you know exactly what is going on in Ange's head.

I don't see any reason for you to be such an ass about all of this except that you must have some sort of personal agenda in defending Ange.
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I think we've found the reason for why one of us is being a dishonest interlocutor - but I don't think the issue is with me. I have no agenda other than what I wrote in the original timeline. Which, being a response and direct refutation of something you write here:

bk_spur said:
You just move goalposts once again- the point Ange never believed in Spence, and Spence and has proved him wrong. You just ignore all of that and say it's a great story for Spurs.

It's cowardly the way you avoid discussing the central premises made in arguments.
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Seems to have driven you a little loopy.

BTW I suggest you read the last line of your own post above and consider applying it to yourself.
 
manmountainbutters said:
Yeah, Dickie Arlison not doing himself any favours here. All long and winding, desperately tortuous even, roads lead to a contorted defense of Ange at all costs.

Fact is Ange hardly ever played Spence until injuries forced him. Why? We don't really know know on the spectrum between "Got it wrong" and "Bad attitude".

To pretend Ange was playing Spence much pre-injury is the stuff of fairies at the bottom of the garden.
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Tbh mate, the weird thing about this thread are the ones using it to forward an Ange out agenda that nobody else is even bothered to argue against anymore.

If you read the posts Phomesy and mine both want to give Spence the credit for being patient and playing his way into his current situation. It’s a good news story in a shit season and the man deserves his flowers.

Why is that never enough for people?
 
manmountainbutters said:
Gray was awful at FB vs Roma. I like Gray too. He might even - at £40m odd - turn out to be a good buy. Can't recall which domestic games he played at FB that Spence could have played? Probably were a few?

Anyway, both very good players. Probably two of our best three or four players of the season
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Coventry and Bournemouth if we talk about games prior to 15.12.2024.
Agreed that not too many. This comment was more about Europe where Spence was left out.
 
Richard Arlison said:
Tbh mate, the weird thing about this thread are the ones using it to forward an Ange out agenda that nobody else is even bothered to argue against anymore.

If you read the posts Phomesy and mine both want to give Spence the credit for being patient and playing his way into his current situation. It’s a good news story in a shit season and the man deserves his flowers.

Why is that never enough for people?
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I can answer the latter part.

Because people want more than 14th place in EPL and seeing overused players being shadow of themselves (goes mainly for Udogie but in some games also to Porro). And this one here is not some hindsight-heroism. People were literally calling for Spence to get chance sooner. After he had proved his usefulness with two very good 45 minute displays. All that while Udogie was frankly mostly shit. Slowed down attack, never involved in creating or scoring goals and defensively so-and-so.

Basically asking "why is that never enough" is similar to ask after losing semifinal of cup competition that "oh but why not rather celebrate reaching this far instead of being sad about elimination?" - because people want to win. And want to see as good as possible results. Quite straightforward this, no ?
 
TheSpurEst said:
I can answer the latter part.

Because people want more than 14th place in EPL and seeing overused players being shadow of themselves (goes mainly for Udogie but in some games also to Porro). And this one here is not some hindsight-heroism. People were literally calling for Spence to get chance sooner. After he had proved his usefulness with two very good 45 minute displays. All that while Udogie was frankly mostly shit. Slowed down attack, never involved in creating or scoring goals and defensively so-and-so.

Basically asking "why is that never enough" is similar to ask after losing semifinal of cup competition that "oh but why not rather celebrate reaching this far instead of being sad about elimination?" - because people want to win. And want to see as good as possible results. Quite straightforward this, no ?
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None of that is about Djed though.

Unless you are saying just the act of Djed playing 2-3 games earlier would have been the difference between being 14th or challenging for the PL title this season?
 
TheSpurEst said:
And then mentioning Gray being ahead of him is another plain mistake to me. Don't get me wrong - I love Archie. But he is not a fullback, he does not have that acceleration.
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Gray came to Spurs after playing RB for Leeds for entire season and it's his position in England Under 21's. I think Spence is a better FB (I think he's better than all our FB's tbh) but to say Gray is "not a fullback" is quite simply factually incorrect and it's also indisputable that at the start of the season Gray was ahead of Spence in the pecking order. That isn't the case now that Spence has proven himself of course.

TheSpurEst said:
Playing Gray in fullback positions ahead of Spence is another clear mistake in my books.
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As its only happened once - against Bournemouth - I don't think it's that much of an issue tbh.
 
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