Player Djed Spence

[manmountainbutters]

This 98% and 2% timeline was up until 15th December.
I have never argued that he has been included since then. Who has? And how could any really?

My point and critique is fairly simple- I did believe then and do believe now - he should have played lot more in space between start of season to 15th December. And given full games off for Porro and Udogie.

Btw in the end what we talk about here are Ange decisions, right (cause pretty sure Spence would have liked to play more himself)? And then mentioning Gray being ahead of him is another plain mistake to me. Don't get me wrong - I love Archie. But he is not a fullback, he does not have that acceleration. Playing Gray in fullback positions ahead of Spence is another clear mistake in my books.

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Gray was awful at FB vs Roma. I like Gray too. He might even - at £40m odd - turn out to be a good buy. Can't recall which domestic games he played at FB that Spence could have played? Probably were a few?

Anyway, both very good players. Probably two of our best three or four players of the season

 

[jonomarch]

Have you heard the one about Gray having a clause in his contract that if he doesn't play a certain amount of minutes for Spurs, this season, he can be transferred elsewhere for the same price Spurs paid?

Ange's hands may have been tied by this if it is true.

Spence may also have been left out of the side completely to protect the value of Porro; who cost 34 mi££ion.

Maybe the miser spins many webs we don't see?

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Never my cheap ass chairman would buy a 20m dollar option before signing that contract

 

[Phomesy]

This- is your opinion- you speculate widely in here. Nothing more. It is certainly not "facts".

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Sorry? Which part is conjecture that I do not openly acknowledge as such?

And why do you not address any of the many, actual facts contained within my post?

Please: go line by line through the post - and indeed my original timeline - and counter any facts, or indeed, any conjecture contained within.

I'm happy to engage with actual argument but just flat out lying about the content of my posts makes you look a little weird.

 

[Mariner]

View: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNd14ou5M/

 

[Phomesy]

Here the post. You could have easily searched it up, or just read it when I posted it.

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That link goes to Telegram not to TFC - so... not sure what the hell you're on about.

You asserting that you have sole control of the facts is immensely arrogant. It's hilarious you think that just because Spence made a minute or two appearance in a 1 or 2 games that that represents a genuine interest in integrating him. It's even more hilarious that you represent this as "facts"- as if you know exactly what is going on in Ange's head.

I don't see any reason for you to be such an ass about all of this except that you must have some sort of personal agenda in defending Ange.

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I think we've found the reason for why one of us is being a dishonest interlocutor - but I don't think the issue is with me. I have no agenda other than what I wrote in the original timeline. Which, being a response and direct refutation of something you write here:

You just move goalposts once again- the point Ange never believed in Spence, and Spence and has proved him wrong. You just ignore all of that and say it's a great story for Spurs.

It's cowardly the way you avoid discussing the central premises made in arguments.

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Seems to have driven you a little loopy.

BTW I suggest you read the last line of your own post above and consider applying it to yourself.

 

[spids]

You still believe in contract length how sweet. Lol Charlie that you? Can you get me a Sketchers advert?

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Keep working on your material fella, but don't give up the day job

 

[Richard Arlison]

Yeah, Dickie Arlison not doing himself any favours here. All long and winding, desperately tortuous even, roads lead to a contorted defense of Ange at all costs.

Fact is Ange hardly ever played Spence until injuries forced him. Why? We don't really know know on the spectrum between "Got it wrong" and "Bad attitude".

To pretend Ange was playing Spence much pre-injury is the stuff of fairies at the bottom of the garden.

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Tbh mate, the weird thing about this thread are the ones using it to forward an Ange out agenda that nobody else is even bothered to argue against anymore.

If you read the posts Phomesy and mine both want to give Spence the credit for being patient and playing his way into his current situation. It’s a good news story in a shit season and the man deserves his flowers.

Why is that never enough for people?

 

[TheSpurEst]

Gray was awful at FB vs Roma. I like Gray too. He might even - at £40m odd - turn out to be a good buy. Can't recall which domestic games he played at FB that Spence could have played? Probably were a few?

Anyway, both very good players. Probably two of our best three or four players of the season

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Coventry and Bournemouth if we talk about games prior to 15.12.2024.
Agreed that not too many. This comment was more about Europe where Spence was left out.

 

[TheSpurEst]

Tbh mate, the weird thing about this thread are the ones using it to forward an Ange out agenda that nobody else is even bothered to argue against anymore.

If you read the posts Phomesy and mine both want to give Spence the credit for being patient and playing his way into his current situation. It’s a good news story in a shit season and the man deserves his flowers.

Why is that never enough for people?

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I can answer the latter part.

Because people want more than 14th place in EPL and seeing overused players being shadow of themselves (goes mainly for Udogie but in some games also to Porro). And this one here is not some hindsight-heroism. People were literally calling for Spence to get chance sooner. After he had proved his usefulness with two very good 45 minute displays. All that while Udogie was frankly mostly shit. Slowed down attack, never involved in creating or scoring goals and defensively so-and-so.

Basically asking "why is that never enough" is similar to ask after losing semifinal of cup competition that "oh but why not rather celebrate reaching this far instead of being sad about elimination?" - because people want to win. And want to see as good as possible results. Quite straightforward this, no ?

 

[Richard Arlison]

I can answer the latter part.

Because people want more than 14th place in EPL and seeing overused players being shadow of themselves (goes mainly for Udogie but in some games also to Porro). And this one here is not some hindsight-heroism. People were literally calling for Spence to get chance sooner. After he had proved his usefulness with two very good 45 minute displays. All that while Udogie was frankly mostly shit. Slowed down attack, never involved in creating or scoring goals and defensively so-and-so.

Basically asking "why is that never enough" is similar to ask after losing semifinal of cup competition that "oh but why not rather celebrate reaching this far instead of being sad about elimination?" - because people want to win. And want to see as good as possible results. Quite straightforward this, no ?

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None of that is about Djed though.

Unless you are saying just the act of Djed playing 2-3 games earlier would have been the difference between being 14th or challenging for the PL title this season?

 

[Phomesy]

And then mentioning Gray being ahead of him is another plain mistake to me. Don't get me wrong - I love Archie. But he is not a fullback, he does not have that acceleration.

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Gray came to Spurs after playing RB for Leeds for entire season and it's his position in England Under 21's. I think Spence is a better FB (I think he's better than all our FB's tbh) but to say Gray is "not a fullback" is quite simply factually incorrect and it's also indisputable that at the start of the season Gray was ahead of Spence in the pecking order. That isn't the case now that Spence has proven himself of course.

Playing Gray in fullback positions ahead of Spence is another clear mistake in my books.

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As its only happened once - against Bournemouth - I don't think it's that much of an issue tbh.

 

[TheSpurEst]

None of that is about Djed though.

Unless you are saying just the act of Djed playing 2-3 games earlier would have been the difference between being 14th or challenging for the PL title this season?

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No, you are right again.
Playing good player earlier couldn't have had any impact on result.
As with injuries it is all 100% luck and random number generator

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

Keep working on your material fella, but don't give up the day job

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It is my Day Job and I've been very very successful too. Lol But hey everyone's a critic.

 

[bk_spur]

You can contest it but he’s right.

Spence was getting integrated from pre-season.

There was 2, max 3 games after he came back from injury where he could’ve played earlier but he was already the first defensive sub to start the season

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Honestly you’re so stubborn and averse to reasoning it’s not worth debating you. People like you and Phomesy listen to corporate press conference and take what is said as “facts”. It’s almost like you guys have no real grasp on what truth, logic or science actually is.

 

[bk_spur]

Could you please link to this "case" please? I've looked and can't find anything you've written that includes actual evidence as opposed to conjecture. We've had this discussion before - none of your conjecture holds up to the actual evidence. Sorry. Fact don't respect your "feelings".

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Sure buddy- look you and Richard Arlison are so naive you call interpretations of corporate statements in a press conference “facts”. And then lay out a speculative interpretation of fringe sub minutes also as “facts”.

There’s no point trying to debate with people like yourself. You don’t really seem to understand what constitute “facts”, “logic” or “truth”. And you’re so mean-spirited and egotistical you can’t even admit what is supposition and what an actual “fact” is.

 

[bk_spur]

This 98% and 2% timeline was up until 15th December.
I have never argued that he has been included since then. Who has? And how could any really?

My point and critique is fairly simple- I did believe then and do believe now - he should have played lot more in space between start of season to 15th December. And given full games off for Porro and Udogie.

Btw in the end what we talk about here are Ange decisions, right (cause pretty sure Spence would have liked to play more himself)? And then mentioning Gray being ahead of him is another plain mistake to me. Don't get me wrong - I love Archie. But he is not a fullback, he does not have that acceleration. Playing Gray in fullback positions ahead of Spence is another clear mistake in my books.

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Thank you for providing a voice of reason in this. Gray is clearly not a better FB than Spence, and minutes playing him there rather than Spence are strange and perhaps contractually mandated.

 

[bk_spur]

Imagine being such a footballing genius you can’t even identify who is the best player on your team, and leave them out of our most important cup squad?

“I think a major turnaround is Djed playing regularly at this level, just because he has hung around doesn’t mean that is a major turnaround.”

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

Imagine being such a footballing genius you can’t even identify who is the best player on your team, and leave them out of our most important cup squad?

“I think a major turnaround is Djed playing regularly at this level, just because he has hung around doesn’t mean that is a major turnaround.”

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It's embarrassing and only really stupid people are buying it. He could have been doing this for us 15 months ago.

 

[YidZecke]

It's embarrassing and only really stupid people are buying it. He could have been doing this for us 15 months ago.

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Did you watch him at Genoa? Everytime I saw him there he did ok due to his physical attributes. But he was way of that he is now. There was quite some growth there. I mean he could have been better here, but he could as easiliy have been half the player he is now as he was when out on loan.

 

[Phomesy]

Sure buddy- look you and Richard Arlison are so naive you call interpretations of corporate statements in a press conference “facts”. And then lay out a speculative interpretation of fringe sub minutes also as “facts”.

There’s no point trying to debate with people like yourself. You don’t really seem to understand what constitute “facts”, “logic” or “truth”. And you’re so mean-spirited and egotistical you can’t even admit what is supposition and what an actual “fact” is.

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Would have been simpler, and more honest, just to write: "No I'm not going to engage in good faith nor provide an argument of substance"