Harry Kane

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Sonny gets 20 a season and all of his goals have been from open play. Have him take penalties and be the point up front and he gets 25-30 a season easily.

We have built a team around Kane and it lasted 5+ years. While we’ve seen good results, it that hasn’t translated into trophies. I’m not sure if we will ever get to where we were a couple seasons ago if we try to rebuild around Kane - there’s just too much to do and realistically, we won’t have transfer funds to start any sort of rebuild without selling Kane.
These stats are only from the EPL, but someone scores more goals on a consistent basis and we shouldn’t think of selling him whilst he is entering his prime.

Son:

Premier League Playing Career
label.tablePlayerClubHistory
SeasonClubApps (Subs)GoalsMore
2019/2020Tottenham Hotspur21 (1)9
2018/2019Tottenham Hotspur31 (8)12
2017/2018Tottenham Hotspur37 (10)12
2016/2017Tottenham Hotspur34 (11)14
2015/2016Tottenham Hotspur28 (15)4

Kane:

Premier League Playing Career
label.tablePlayerClubHistory
SeasonClubApps (Subs)GoalsMore
2019/2020Tottenham Hotspur20 (0)11
2018/2019Tottenham Hotspur28 (1)17
2017/2018Tottenham Hotspur37 (2)30
2016/2017Tottenham Hotspur30 (1)29
2015/2016Tottenham Hotspur38 (0)25

This isn't taking into account everything else he brings to the team...
 
He's scored 22 goals / 10 assists last season and 17/8 the year before that.

We're talking 150 million for Kane for 30 goals. If we can get Jimenez for less than 50 million, it'd be a relative bargain.

That logic would also make any free transfer that has scored 1 goal infinitely better value

Issue with that logic is only 11 players play
 
If we sell Kane, we should just put Sonny up top. If really needed, we can add another winger to “replace” Sonny. Then use the proceeds from selling Kane to rebuild in weaker areas. We’ve shown we can win without Kane and Sonny can pick up some of the production in Kane’s absence. We really aren’t that far off in terms of competing week in week out. A couple good signings and time to gel without Kane will get us back to our winning ways.
Far better to play both of them together. 1 goal threat is never enough you need options. Stop comparing the 2 they are not in competition with each other and both are good and better when the other is playing with them.
 
The logic on here astounds me, could you see Liverpool selling Salah and their fans saying "It's ok guys we got Firminho, Mane and Origi to score the goals"

I just don't understand it, zero ambition.
No, but I can see them selling Coutinho and going on a run that should have seen them win 2 CL's on the bounce along with at least 1 PL. Can you see it too?*


*really bad example you've chosen seeing as they have done exactly what some are suggesting we do.
 
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No, but I can see them selling Coutinho and going on a run that should have seen them win 2 CL's on the bounce along with at least 1 PL. Can you see it too?*


*really bad example you chose seeing as they have done exactly what some are suggesting we do.
Kane is levels above Coutinho.
Kane is in the top 5 strikers in the world and irreplacable.
Coutinho was being compared to Eriksen a season and a half ago, he is quality but certainly not irreplacable.

IMO your comparison doesn't work.
 
No, but I can see them selling Coutinho and going on a run that should have seen them win 2 CL's on the bounce along with at least 1 PL. Can you see it too?*


*really bad example you chose seeing as they have done exactly what some are suggesting we do.

How do you figure they should have won 2 CLs on the bounce? They choked big time against RM and were shite against us.

They were fortunate not to blow 2 in a row.
 
IMO your comparison doesn't work.
Colo(u)r me surprised.

Kane is levels above Coutinho.
Kane is in the top 5 strikers in the world and irreplacable.
Coutinho was being compared to Eriksen a season and a half ago, he is quality but certainly not irreplacable.
As self-serving as your explanation may be he was still widely seen as their best player and Klopp was desperate to keep him. And beyond that the relative merits of the players is not important whether one agrees with your premises or your conclusions from them.

And your original post utilized Salah who is not their best player currently (Mane). Many/most would say similar as you have said when comparing Kane to Salah.

The logic on here astounds me, could you see Liverpool selling Salah and their fans saying "It's ok guys we got Firminho, Mane and Origi to score the goals"

I just don't understand it, zero ambition.

I think my comparison is looking a lot better now. But maybe we should focus on the thrust of my point and not this bit. Pool sold their best player at the time and went on to the best years they've had in a couple decades...and should have ended the PL drought. Ambition indeed.
 
I'm English you can use colour. I won't be offended.

I just don't see how we replace one of the best strikers in the world when we can't offer half the wages of the other top clubs.
And If you sell Kane and punt on two or three additions to replace, its exactly that... a punt.
There are crazy prices in the market right now for average premier league players.
We could easily sell Kane and wind up with two additional Ndombele's and two Njie's at which point we've gone backwards. Again.
It's madness to propose selling your prized asset because you "might" get lucky and bring in 3-4 potential world class players who then go on to fulfill that.

That's the crux of my argument.

Unless you just don't rate Kane that highly or think his injuries are here to stay. in which case fine, that's your opinion.
 
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Sonny, Bergwijn, Dele, Lucas, Lo Celso, NDombele, Lamela plus another signing up front should be enough goal scoring talent and depth to compete for a top four spot. What we really need to do is sort out our back and maybe add another creative playmaker which we might be able to do if we free up transfer funds.

The jury is still out on Ndombele and Bergwjin.
Lamela as much as i love him is always going to be a bit part player with his injuries, i can see the club moving him on as he can't be relied on.
Dele I think could return to his old form with this forced rest, I think him and Kane have been flogged half to death by club and country, So this break is going to be exactly what they both need.
Lo Celso and Son are top drawer.

There isn't enough there to justify selling Kane and losing 20-30 guaranteed goals a season.
 
I'm English you can use colour. I won't be offended.
Yeah, I'm 'Murican and do it to be annoying...which TBF I really don't need to throw in the added effort to achieve my objectives.

I just don't see how we replace one of the best strikers in the world when we can't offer half the wages of the other top clubs.
I think it involves a 'rethink' as to what the position is and what is expected from it beyond the "stikers=goals" mentality. And beyond that how our current striker fits with the profile of Mou's previous (even while accepting the fact that Mou has expressed only positives).

And If you sell Kane and punt on two or three additions to replace, its exactly that... a punt.
Again, this is because you are thinking how do we find a player to score 30 goals. Why not figure out how we get the team back to #1 in chances created? Harry had very little to do with that...and that coincided with his best scoring year (and we still won nothing while scoring the most and creating the most...or something like that). I'm telling you that I can get someone close to 30 goals if we are #1 in chances created...and that last part never has too much to do with having a striker.

There are crazy prices in the market right now for average premier league players.
A team of 25 7/10 players would walk the league every year. Might even be able to go down to 6.5/10...and maybe even 6/10 if they are a pressing team.

wind up with two additional Ndombele's
Would love 2 additional Ndombeles.

It's madness to propose selling your prized asset because you "might" get lucky and bring in 3-4 potential world class players who then go on to fulfill that.
Scouting. RBL reload every year. BVB may lose big again this year but will be back at it. Leverkusen lost their best player and are back at it but maybe even better. This might be heresy but perhaps doing things as they've always been done may not be the best way to get anything other than what you've already gotten. The PL could learn from elsewhere the lesson of actually scouting instead of throwing money around.

That's the crux of my argument.
Yeah, I had that. But you can't let fear paralyze you from acting. We did that with CE. And you also can't go forward with an actual plan when all you're doing is trying to appease the immediacy of current star. But it takes leadership and bravery. The last time we needed that we got the Sammy-summer.

Unless you just don't rate Kane that highly or think his injuries are here to stay. in which case fine, that's your opinion.
How I rate him is immaterial to my point. I could rate him the best striker ever but still make a compelling argument as to why the club could investigate alternatives. Similarly, I think it is getting close to being in Barca's best interest to move Messi on...and I think he's the greatest ever and still the best in the game now. What you want to avoid is a Totti-type of situation where the player thinks he is the badge and won't exit gracefully. No player bigger than the badge (though I'm seeing that's just some bullshit that a few claptrappers throw out when it suits them but ignore at other times - not in reference to you).
 
Again, this is because you are thinking how do we find a player to score 30 goals.
There isn't enough there to justify selling Kane and losing 20-30 guaranteed goals a season.
I was right and I hadn't even seen your post. Kane doesn't waltz through teams like Sonny did against Burnley and score his goals. That's a solo goal made from individual brilliance. We need to improve our overall play/chances created and we can do that in other ways that don't involve replacing a "20-30 guaranteed goals a season" striker.
 
Yeah, I'm 'Murican and do it to be annoying...which TBF I really don't need to throw in the added effort to achieve my objectives.


I think it involves a 'rethink' as to what the position is and what is expected from it beyond the "stikers=goals" mentality. And beyond that how our current striker fits with the profile of Mou's previous (even while accepting the fact that Mou has expressed only positives).


Again, this is because you are thinking how do we find a player to score 30 goals. Why not figure out how we get the team back to #1 in chances created? Harry had very little to do with that...and that coincided with his best scoring year (and we still won nothing while scoring the most and creating the most...or something like that). I'm telling you that I can get someone close to 30 goals if we are #1 in chances created...and that last part never has too much to do with having a striker.


A team of 25 7/10 players would walk the league every year. Might even be able to go down to 6.5/10...and maybe even 6/10 if they are a pressing team.


Would love 2 additional Ndombeles.


Scouting. RBL reload every year. BVB may lose big again this year but will be back at it. Leverkusen lost their best player and are back at it but maybe even better. This might be heresy but perhaps doing things as they've always been done may not be the best way to get anything other than what you've already gotten. The PL could learn from elsewhere the lesson of actually scouting instead of throwing money around.


Yeah, I had that. But you can't let fear paralyze you from acting. We did that with CE. And you also can't go forward with an actual plan when all you're doing is trying to appease the immediacy of current star. But it takes leadership and bravery. The last time we needed that we got the Sammy-summer.


How I rate him is immaterial to my point. I could rate him the best striker ever but still make a compelling argument as to why the club could investigate alternatives. Similarly, I think it is getting close to being in Barca's best interest to move Messi on...and I think he's the greatest ever and still the best in the game now. What you want to avoid is a Totti-type of situation where the player thinks he is the badge and won't exit gracefully. No player bigger than the badge (though I'm seeing that's just some bullshit that a few claptrappers throw out when it suits them but ignore at other times - not in reference to you).
A good post with well thought out rational arguments.

The problem is, as you say, scouting but also Levy's transfer policy. As much as I think Levy has done a good-ish job. We would still be taking punts on up and comings in the transfer market.
A complete overhaul of our scouting and transfer policy would be needed for this to work.

See Bale and how we invested the money we got for him.
 
A good post with well thought out rational arguments.

The problem is, as you say, scouting but also Levy's transfer policy. As much as I think Levy has done a good-ish job. We would still be taking punts on up and comings in the transfer market.
A complete overhaul of our scouting and transfer policy would be needed for this to work.

See Bale and how we invested the money we got for him.

....And we were in much better shape then in terms of scouts and a DOF that actually seemed to get shit done. Our accademy output was on the rise around that time too
 
A good post with well thought out rational arguments.
Thanks stevee.

The problem is, as you say, scouting but also Levy's transfer policy. As much as I think Levy has done a good-ish job. We would still be taking punts on up and comings in the transfer market.
A complete overhaul of our scouting and transfer policy would be needed for this to work.
Yes, this is true...but wouldn't this also be in effect while trying to reload with Kane now? And we would be doing it while paying bigger coin for more immediate results. We needed a rebuild 2+ seasons ago, it was begged for 1 season ago, and now we are still trying to avoid doing what has been clear to see for some time. Folks need to accept it and deal with it otherwise mediocrity looms. You can't have you feet in both camps as you're just half-assing it.

See Bale and how we invested the money we got for him.
I imagine Poch was responsible for that too...somehow. But in truth I don't see that whole thing as 'wasted money'...and I'm not that big on Bale either and was happy he left. I hate the oxymoronically labelled 1man teams and am always willing to let that person go. And in football there is only 1 person whose talent is irreplaceable and he's getting old now.
 
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Yeah, I'm 'Murican and do it to be annoying...which TBF I really don't need to throw in the added effort to achieve my objectives.


I think it involves a 'rethink' as to what the position is and what is expected from it beyond the "stikers=goals" mentality. And beyond that how our current striker fits with the profile of Mou's previous (even while accepting the fact that Mou has expressed only positives).


Again, this is because you are thinking how do we find a player to score 30 goals. Why not figure out how we get the team back to #1 in chances created? Harry had very little to do with that...and that coincided with his best scoring year (and we still won nothing while scoring the most and creating the most...or something like that). I'm telling you that I can get someone close to 30 goals if we are #1 in chances created...and that last part never has too much to do with having a striker.


A team of 25 7/10 players would walk the league every year. Might even be able to go down to 6.5/10...and maybe even 6/10 if they are a pressing team.


Would love 2 additional Ndombeles.


Scouting. RBL reload every year. BVB may lose big again this year but will be back at it. Leverkusen lost their best player and are back at it but maybe even better. This might be heresy but perhaps doing things as they've always been done may not be the best way to get anything other than what you've already gotten. The PL could learn from elsewhere the lesson of actually scouting instead of throwing money around.


Yeah, I had that. But you can't let fear paralyze you from acting. We did that with CE. And you also can't go forward with an actual plan when all you're doing is trying to appease the immediacy of current star. But it takes leadership and bravery. The last time we needed that we got the Sammy-summer.


How I rate him is immaterial to my point. I could rate him the best striker ever but still make a compelling argument as to why the club could investigate alternatives. Similarly, I think it is getting close to being in Barca's best interest to move Messi on...and I think he's the greatest ever and still the best in the game now. What you want to avoid is a Totti-type of situation where the player thinks he is the badge and won't exit gracefully. No player bigger than the badge (though I'm seeing that's just some bullshit that a few claptrappers throw out when it suits them but ignore at other times - not in reference to you).

Don't get me wrong I like the USA. It's a great country. I preferred it when you were all confident, tub thumping patriots, who believed you lived in the greatest country in the world, and not replicating our own miserable self deprecation, but that's the leftist disease for you.
Which I guess is why I like Trump, that and the fact he trolls the left so hard on a daily basis and is basically the worlds biggest shitlord. He has it down to a fine art, yet he isn't credited with any intelligence, that alone is a feat.

Back on topic, Listen, you make a lot of good points. I'm not going to go over them all.

I will say that you seem to underestimate what Kane brings to the team, its a lot more than just goals. I've been watching the highlights that the club has been putting out on an almost daily basis on YouTube and I was surprised just how many assists he crafts.
It's a bit of a disservice to label him as just a goals man.

This season has been one to forget and we've had a massive hangover from the champions league final and a longer than usual list of injuries.

For me, we need replacement fullbacks and a DM and we are good to challenge next year.

I'll never agree to the idea to selling our best player unless we have absolutely no choice, I.e he refuses to play or runs his contract down.

You can't really compare him to Totti at this point either as he has plenty more years left, you could argue the best is still to come.
 
Yes, this is true...but would this also be in effect while trying to reload with Kane now? And we would be doing it while paying bigger coin for more immediate results.

One would think/hope that what with Kane, Son, GLC, Ndombele in place we already have the more expensive peices of the puzzle.

We needed a rebuild 2+ seasons ago, it was begged for 1 season ago, and now we are still trying to avoid doing what has been clear to see for some time. Folks need to accept it and deal with it otherwise mediocrity looms.

We've brought in 6 players this year. How on earth is that continuing to avoiding the matter?

You can't have you feet in both camps as you're just half-assing it.

If Kane was a year or two older, I may tend to agree about "half-assing it", but as it is I'm keen to finish the rebuild around him to get this next team up and running.
 
I preferred it when you were all confident, tub thumping patriots, who believed you lived in the greatest country in the world,
Then I should entertain with my beliefs on thiis...it's bound to get the peanut gallery on their toes.

I will say that you seem to underestimate what Kane brings to the team,
i can assure you i don't.

It's a bit of a disservice to label him as just a goals man.
I didn't. And this even better into my point. The thing that folks rate is his scoring. He's given credt for being 'rounded' and more than a scorer but the goals is the 'world classiness' in it all. But there are other players that can do the other bits much better than Harry because they have better touch, or better passing to both sides of the field, or are stronger, better in the air, can run in behind, etc. Sure, he has a little bit of many of those but not to the level that matches his goals. Getting players that can do the other bits much better balances the squad and perhaps helps in the chances created area which will lead to a more balanced goal situation. If you got 1 guy scoring then you have only 1 guy to defend. I point you to the CL final.

For me, we need replacement fullbacks and a DM and we are good to challenge next year.
Easy peasy. I don't think so myself. We need 4 new CBs and competition all around IMO.

I'll never agree to the idea to selling our best player unless we have absolutely no choice, I.e he refuses to play or runs his contract down.
And then you would be negotiating from a position of weakness. I could be wrong but I'm fairly certain this is not the way to get the best deal nor set yourself up for success. This is exactly what we did with Bale and you just took the piss outta that. Now you are advocating doing the same thing...you will get the same result.

You can't really compare him to Totti at this point either as he has plenty more years left, you could argue the best is still to come.
And I'd argue we've seen Harry's ceiling. He may match it but will not surpass it. And since we already know that endpoint then investigating how to go beyond that is made even easier.
 
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