Hugo, the Boss

[linnet_spur]

You got it I can't remember which site you remember me from - no need to mention it if you don't want to - or PM if you want

Not that I mind, it's just I don't know the etiquette regarding naming sites on other sites.

GG, mate, I remember the Lloris thread that ran and ran (still running) with you adamant AVB fucked up with Lloris (I disagreed). Interesting to see how many members are drifting over here now.

 

[Greaves_357]

Bro, My comment was more in shock that Tremmel is up there, no I don't think he is the bees knees. It was because on the whole, the list follows the order you would expect. top 6 teams concede less goals due to attacking more etc, therefore we would reasonably expect those keepers to be conceding less per game, and simply catching long range shots and so on. In hindsight I must say that Swansea are 7th atm so it shouldn't be so odd. Wasn't serious in other words.

one little question on a side note, does it count as a save if the striker hasn't actually touched it? e.g Lloris running out of the box and tackling/clearing a through ball? I would be interested to know the number of out of the box clearances each keeper has made in that sort of situation. Teams with high lines would do more obviously.

Exactly - that's my point too - Hugo often, and I mean often cuts out stuff at source. But I doubt very much his clearances count as saves.

 

[Greaves_357]

GG, mate, I remember the Lloris thread that ran and ran (still running) with you adamant AVB fucked up with Lloris (I disagreed). Interesting to see how many members are drifting over here now.

Ah right - yep in the end it got silly - I'm now allowed to view only on there. It just became one of those things - the more they riled me, the more I riled them and so on.

hopefully here, people will let each other have their say. As you know I'm never rude to anyone - but at the same time I hold strong views.

 

[vadimivich]

I've played as a keeper nearly my whole life - and the one thing about Lloris that is utterly remarkable to me is just how quick he is off his line, and how effective he is at clearing up dangerous balls in (and outside of) his box. He simply snuffs out opportunities that would result in scoring opportunities with nearly anyone else in the world in net.

Shot stopping is really the least important skill of any modern keeper - you're expected to meet a minimum standard of course, but beyond that being elite at reading the game and organizing your defense is far more important. Lloris absolutely excels in those areas.

 

[boneycrisp]

oh my god Carlito makes me want to punch things. Nothing is positive, he cannot be positive at all about anyone or anything at Spurs and I just do not get it. Lloris is not overrated by Spurs fans, if he is overrated by Spurs fans then he has been overrated by Lyon fans, the French and the World media. He isn't the best keeper in the World granted, but for christ sake Carlito this is his first season in the Premier League he isn't going to be perfect, but I will go out on record and say currently he is the best performing keeper in the Premier league. I'm not saying this season, I am saying currently.

If he is so terrible please tell me who your desired keeper would be at Spurs?

 

[ArcspacE]

I've played as a keeper nearly my whole life - and the one thing about Lloris that is utterly remarkable to me is just how quick he is off his line, and how effective he is at clearing up dangerous balls in (and outside of) his box. He simply snuffs out opportunities that would result in scoring opportunities with nearly anyone else in the world in net.

Shot stopping is really the least important skill of any modern keeper - you're expected to meet a minimum standard of course, but beyond that being elite at reading the game and organizing your defense is far more important. Lloris absolutely excels in those areas.

Agreed - reminds of that old 'joke' how the Dutch considered van der Saar their best defender during his hey-days. Hugo is just as important as a 'centre back' as he is a keeper, imv - vital cog in the back line.

And to be fair - his reading / understanding of the opponent's attacking play has been nothing short of superb - one of the best in the PL, Top 3 no doubt

 

[Greaves_357]

I've played as a keeper nearly my whole life - and the one thing about Lloris that is utterly remarkable to me is just how quick he is off his line, and how effective he is at clearing up dangerous balls in (and outside of) his box. He simply snuffs out opportunities that would result in scoring opportunities with nearly anyone else in the world in net.

Shot stopping is really the least important skill of any modern keeper - you're expected to meet a minimum standard of course, but beyond that being elite at reading the game and organizing your defense is far more important. Lloris absolutely excels in those areas.

Well said - I've never seen a keeper like him. You're a keeper so you'll know more about it than me, but it's almost like having a 'back 5' with him in goal, he acts both as keeper and extra defender.

 

[Greaves_357]

Agreed - reminds of that old 'joke' how the Dutch considered van der Saar their best defender during his hey-days. Hugo is just as important as a 'centre back' as he is a keeper, imv - vital cog in the back line.

And to be fair - his reading / understanding of the opponent's attacking play has been nothing short of superb - one of the best in the PL, Top 3 no doubt

Well said Arc - as you know, you and I banged the drum big-time for Hugo on GG - when there was still a debate to be had re him and Brad-

Fortunately that time has passed, so it's easier to be relaxed about the situation now

I honestly can't think of a better keeper than Hugo in the Prem. I used to say Hart was, but he has problems this season.

Certainly the way we play, I couldn't think of a better keeper for us.

 

[ArcspacE]

Yeah, remember that - bloody hell, there were some absolute fucking idiots there at the time

 

[Greaves_357]

Yeah, remember that - bloody hell, there were some absolute fucking idiots there at the time

I'm keeping schtum. Those dark days of the 'goalkeeper wars' are hopefully behind us now.

 

[Kalyl]

.

Certainly the way we play, I couldn't think of a better keeper for us.

a certain german would like to have a word with you... Neuer does all the the same things thathugo do equally good or better (there's a reason he's the best GK in the world afterall ).

 

[vadimivich]

Neuer is a spectacular keeper, no question.

I think he and Lloris are clearly in the "Top 5" of keepers world wide.

 

[Greaves_357]

a certain german would like to have a word with you... Neuer does all the the same things thathugo do equally good or better (there's a reason he's the best GK in the world afterall ).

Fair enough, I was meaning more Prem keepers, but see your point. I really don't know enough about Neuer to comment, but if he's better than Hugo am happy to accept that.

 

[Éperons]

one little question on a side note, does it count as a save if the striker hasn't actually touched it? e.g Lloris running out of the box and tackling/clearing a through ball?

I have no idea, but you and vadimivich do indicate some ways in which we can suss a bit more of Lloris from the stats. Namely, not only do teams park the bus (thereby reducing the number of shots), but, anecdotally, Lloris does seem far more eager to leave the line and gather up a ball before there's a chance of a shot. How many of these "potential shots" never become shots because of his aggressive nature is something that the stats miss. I would just encourage to err on the side of caution in trying to account for that. It's much more obvious, when we look at a player influence chalkboard and see that the opposition is entirely penned into their half, why Lloris is seeing so few shots, though the inclination is to remember the two balls he bundled up at the edge of the box.

 

[Raitei]

I thought Neuer hadn't exactly been great recently. I wouldn't call him the best keeper in the world, but he certainly is brilliant

 

[yiddo2786]

If Julio Cesar played for a better club would he be considered a better keeper - dare I say, the best keeper in the league?

 

[Greaves_357]

I have no idea, but you and vadimivich do indicate some ways in which we can suss a bit more of Lloris from the stats. Namely, not only do teams park the bus (thereby reducing the number of shots), but, anecdotally, Lloris does seem far more eager to leave the line and gather up a ball before there's a chance of a shot. How many of these "potential shots" never become shots because of his aggressive nature is something that the stats miss. I would just encourage to err on the side of caution in trying to account for that. It's much more obvious, when we look at a player influence chalkboard and see that the opposition is entirely penned into their half, why Lloris is seeing so few shots, though the inclination is to remember the two balls he bundled up at the edge of the box.

Good thoughtful stuff. It's so hard to analyse the defensive stats, and I'm sure even a top analyst like AVB knows that.

One point about the high line is that it tends to mean that if the oppo break through, it's likely they'll have a good chance to score. We tend not to have too many of the exciting penalty area stramashes, with a packed defence fighting the attack and the keeper flying here there and everywhere.

I think in parts this is one reason why a lot of fans, including many of our own, keep underrating our performances. We are playing good football, but we're not doing the muck and bullets exciting stuff that gets the fans going 'wow'.

 

[vadimivich]

I thought Neuer hadn't exactly been great recently. I wouldn't call him the best keeper in the world, but he certainly is brilliant

Neuer has been terrific for Bayern this season, he had a rough start last year when he first joined (the fans didn't want him, it wasn't pretty) but he's been basically a monster this entire year.

Bayern have conceded 7 goals this year in the Bundesliga. SEVEN.

 

[vadimivich]

IMHO - Neuer is by himself as the best keeper in the world right now. I also see him a lot (especially compared to say Casillas), but he's a special player for sure.

I think Lloris is in that group with guys like Buffon, Casillas, and Hart ... elite, world class keepers.

 

[Éperons]

We tend not to have too many of the exciting penalty area stramashes, with a packed defence fighting the attack and the keeper flying here there and everywhere.

Well, at least not since Lloris has been starting. Precisely this penalty box pinball was our undoing during the early part of the season. How much of that is Friedel, how much is AVB, how much is jitters… who knows.