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Only proven managers i can think we've appointed are Venables, Graham and Mourinho. First did alright. Ramos, AVB and Santini had won trophies and that was a disaster. Appointing any manager isnt an exact science, its all a gamble.
I would have to disagree with you on that.
The inability of the midfielders to retain possession is the reason why the team is pressed back once the other team presses. They lose possession too quickly and invite continous pressure from the opposition.
If they were that suited to playing possession, they would keep the ball under pressure better and not misplace too many passes. Players like Ndombele, GLC, and Sissoko, who like to run with the ball, would likely struggle in a possession based system.
There are many components to any team becoming champions - management, players, opposition, schedule, luck etc. Still the biggest credit should go to Klopp as the manager.
After all, Lijnders was there with Brendan Rodgers, and I dont remember Liverpool being champions back then and was sacked from NEC. Even with Klopp, it took them a few seasons before becoming champions.
Have to agree to disagee but no champions league i think he'll be toast. Levy intimated in the amazon doc i think that last season was unusual but he expected better next season.
Of course they are gambles.
Theres never a guarantee even a proven manager is going to come in and do anything of note.
And if Mourinho fails to win us a cup this year. He's failed massively. And been a 15m flop.
Therefore proving that getting in "proven managers" was a gamble.
I’m still supporting Jose but he needs to start showing real results, being top and then sinking back to mediocrity isn’t going to cut it.
Today even West Ham are right up with us, a team that last season were relegation fodder and one we would laugh at.
Teams like them are not standing still, talking about needing more and better players before they do anything, they are getting on with it.
And much as I continue to support Jose, I don’t believe that he is beyond criticism, there are fifteen million reasons as to why he should be producing results. That game against Fulham was as inept as it could be, Sandra would have managed that game better.
Today even West Ham are right up with us, a team that last season were relegation fodder and one we would laugh at.
Teams like them are not standing still, talking about needing more and better players before they do anything, they are getting on with it.
And much as I continue to support Jose, I don’t believe that he is beyond criticism, there are fifteen million reasons as to why he should be producing results. That game against Fulham was as inept as it could be, Sandra would have managed that game better.
I agree that if we keep trying Sissoko or Winks to pair PEH we'd be unlikely to succeed at possession football. But
if we played a more possession oriented system with 2 CM/CAMs instead of 2 CDMs (and sometimes with defensive wingers deployed on top of that), don't you think we'd have a better chance of playing successful possession football? I do.
Your notion that Ndombele would struggle in a possession system is absolutely preposterous though. The man was MADE for possession based football.
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You have to remember though that clubs like west ham are having an exceptional season because they have no real expectations other than avoiding relegation.
Let us see how these clubs cope next season especially if they get European football, clubs like us cope with it every year clubs like theirs don't.
However I still think we are a team in progress who will get better but Jose and the players haven't helped themselves, way too many draws and trying to do just enough in games is simply not good enough.
Undesirable outcome does not make it gamble, as the final outcome depends on many other factors and not just the manager. Even injuries to key players could ruin a season.
With a proven manager, you can look at their past performances and under what circumstances said was achieved e.g. expecting a Mourinho team to start playing tiki-taka is sheer insanity. Mourinho has succeeded in environments where he has been able to assemble the team he wants, even if it costs an arm and a leg. If a club which cannot provide that hires Mourinho, it shouldnt be surprising if things dont work out.
With an unproven manager, you have less information to work with and may not be clear what is required to maximize the chances of success. A more inexperienced manager may not even know what would work for him and is instead learning on the job.
Playing posssession football requires a mindset (ball retention vs aggression) and skill set (finding space and passing accurately under pressure ) and not just changing formation or player positions. Most of the players in the current rotation simply dont have the mindset or skill set.
For someone that has watched Ndombele since his days at Lyon, I stand by assessment. He wants to run with the ball and get into the final third, not stand by making short passes in his own half of the field. In fact, it is one of his shortcomings that he often holds on to the ball for too long and tries to get through too much traffic.
Of all the current regulars, Winks is actually the most suited to possession football, as it would help hide his flaws.
winks would be good in that system at putting team mates under pressure, as you said you need midfielders who cant pass accurately under pressure, that includes going forward at time to time and not just back to a CB or a fullback and give them the hard work to deal with.
part of the reason we spend so much time defending is due to not having midfielders you mentioned, their skillset when it comes to passing is so poor its only ever going to create pressure for our defence. gio and hojbjerg are good the for the possession game imo.
Hasenhüttl is unproven in my opinion
I hope you are right but highly doubt it. As we also saw in the doc Levy has a crush on Jose and is willing to overlook his obvious flaws because of how long he has lusted after him.
Look at the way some posters here make excuses for Jose, I am sure we will hear the same BS at the end of the year about it being a weird offseason, not enough time for Jose to implement his system or change the mentality.
We are already in the League Cup final so win or lose that will used to show how he has "changed" us and made us competitive for trophies. The EL is weak so we likely go on a run in there so that will be used to show he is "close", the league is tight in terms of points so I am sure we will hear how we are only x amount of points away from top 4 and how impressive that is. Plus I imagine we will have some injury that they will use to explain away our shit performances as well at some point.
Again I hope you are right but I think he is here for at least this year and next, especially if we fluke out the League Cup win,
I can legit see both of you guys being right. Hard to predict.
It's going to be Levy's pride vs his will to not lose money.
Usually you'd expect the latter to prevail so there is hope. But like you say Levy has been chasing Jose like a fangirl since forever so maybe it's not that simple.
Last year doesn't count because of Covid and him coming in late so this is his first year and we all know he wins big in his second year so instead of looking at what is acutally happening we need to ignore all reality and go with the serial winner/2nd season nonsense!
That will surely lead to only good things!
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