Kidding myself

[Tucker]

Its a game of opinions I suppose but I really didnt see it like that. Woolwich were keeping the ball well, we were struggling to keep it anywhere near as long.
Im not saying we looked bad, we didnt at all, Verts was looking good in possession but Bale barely touched the ball in first 15-20mins, same goes for Lennon.

Lennon got into the box and had a shot, a rare sight indeed, But he did, had their keeper (cant spell his name ) got a hand to it, the ball would likely have gone straight to Ade. We had lots of chances in that short period of equal competition.

I know Gallas was offside, but didn't the ball come off a defender? surely that would have made him offside. Maybe i'm clutching at straws on that one.

 

[sammyspurs]

If people take their blinkers off and stop fixating on The Scum, there can be an open debate. Today made me think, but in itself, its quite irrelevent.

This is about our assessment of our squad, and the results and performances against a whole host of clubs, over the last 3-4 yrs, that leads me to believe that we are simply not as good as I thought we were.

The same issues over and over and over again. Capitulation after capitulation, under different managers, and different approaches.

 

[Dru]

Thats what I mean, one shot from Lennon in a whole match, its not like he tucks inside to help out the central midfielders either. I dont remember him doing much else?

Im not turning this into a slag tottenham player thread, just my opinions.

 

[sammyspurs]

Those teams are all notorious for taking points off the bigger clubs though. United lost at home to blackburn last season, and look how shit they were.


But these teams dont do it year in year out to Utd and Chelsea etc. They do to us though.



Yes I will agree with you that we have some over rated players in our ranks, but we also have some players with immense quality.


Sandro
Bale
Adebayor

Agree

Defoe (I do not agree that he is over rated, he scores hat fulls)

We are the very best he could ever hope for in the PL, and we need better


Vertonghen
Lloris

Already accepted their worth

We have some incredibly talented young players

Caulker
Siggs (he is still only 21 isn't he? and still needs to settle)
Carroll
Walker (won young player of the year last year)

Right now, they are all either not good enough, or just potential. Either way, that's kind of my point.

We have some proven experienced international players

Gallas (I know he looks pap sometimes but his experience is priceless)
Parker
Dawson
Friedel

Old or average


And we have £20 million in the bank waiting for Porto to sign the fax we sent them at midnight on deadline day.




Thats a whole different story

 

[docomospur]

My concern is actually our defence. I know that Gallas is supposedly experienced but he looks rather shaky, especially when the opposition pumps long balls into our box. The fullback positions are also problematic. I've to admit that I've got little confidence in our back line being able to keep a clean sheet.

 

[sammyspurs]

Im not turning this into a slag tottenham player thread, just my opinions.

It was never that. But we have been asking ourselves so many times "What went wrong....."

I just think we achieved what we could.

 

[Dru]

My concern is actually our defence. I know that Gallas is supposedly experienced but he looks rather shaky, especially when the opposition pumps long balls into our box. The fullback positions are also problematic. I've to admit that I've got little confidence in our back line being able to keep a clean sheet.

Completely agree, it looks like Gallas is playing at his absolute limit to me.

 

[S.L.R]

If we had Ade & Defoe up front the whole game, and Park, BAE & Dembele in the side would we still have been weaker then them?

This whole thread stinks of knee-jerk. Everyone is down in the dumps, negativity is flowing and off the back of a horrid result and all of a sudden the scum are better.

Well, if the scum are so fucking superior how come they only managed to finsih a point above us last year? How come this season they've been stuck behind us in the table until today? Who are their world beaters?

Not buying it. You lot are letting your dissapointment influence you.

We have the players we have until January at the very least. They are by no means a barrel load of shit, and most PL teams would kill to sign half of them at minimum.

Lets get behind them. They are our lads, whether the scum are better or not.

How many points do the scum need to finish above us before we can say they were superior? I would have thought finishing one point above us is sufficient to say they were fractionally better than us, come the end of the season. I don't think it's knee jerking to say they are still better than us. What evidence is there to support the argument that we are now the dominant side in North London?

Anyway that's far too much from me about the scum bring anything other than complete cunts.

 

[Tucker]

Thats what I mean, one shot from Lennon in a whole match, its not like he tucks inside to help out the central midfielders either. I dont remember him doing much else?

Im not turning this into a slag tottenham player thread, just my opinions.

I was just saying we had our chances when we had 11 men. On another day it could have been 3-0 when Ade was dismissed. But hush now, Sammy wants us to focus on the bigger picture.

I agree with Sammy that we are not world beaters, I think a lot of hype came last season when we were 3rd and Harry said we could win the league. If we had finished 3rd and not capitualted towards the end of the season, things would certainly be different. But that didn't happen.

We lost 2 key players in the summer, and got rid of as much dead wood as we could. Our massive squad was far from a harmonious place with Modric Corluka and Kranjcar all stirring shit up.

We tried to sign in players and do our business at midnight on transfer day, unfortunately there was a cock up or we could have had a world class player into replace Modders. hopefully Moutinho will come in in January followed by a couple of strikers or wingers.

We have some over rated players in the squad of course we do. But then so does every other team.

For Bale not being the new Ronaldo see Wilshire not being the new Gazza (although seeing that little cunt burn up in a booze and coke fuelled spiral of destruction would be pleasing)

We have a good team. We are in that group of teams from 3rd down to around 8th.

Spurs - trying to solidify top four status
Woolwich - trying to solidify on to top four status
Liverpool - trying to regain top four status
Newcastle - trying to break into top four status
Everton - trying to break into top four status using a piece of string and an old golf ball.

it is all much of a muchness, I would argue that we are better than all of those teams, but there are arguments against that too.

Spurs and Woolwich were lucky last season that Chelsea and Liverpool were shit. We won't get off as lightly this year. Liverpool finally seem to be getting it together and Chelsea have spent a shit tonne of money on epic players. We can only hope United's limited squad fails them and they drop down into our little group.

The Premier League is very competitive and there will always always always be suprise results, be that Wigan beating us at home, or Swansea winning away at Newcastle.

Maybe this year wont be our year to get that one glistening qualifying spot for the champions league. But we still have a good team. One of the best Spurs teams I have ever seen. I remember the days of Gross and Graham, when a win against one of the big sides was as rare as a hens tooth. When getting a result away at Barnsley was an epic achievement, and when players like Paolo Tramezzani and Nicola Berti roamed Spurs Lodge.

So maybe I see it as a different perspective, I see us as one of the teams who are in the mix for that 4th place. One of the teams who are striving to be amongst the top clubs rather than fighting to finish mid table. I am happy with the current team, with the current ethos. I don't expect any more than a fight to do the best we can this season, we are in transition, and we will have dodgy results, but I don't doubt out ability. Not one bit.

 

[Dru]

I think we are on the same page, I dont think we should be getting top 4 easily, I think it will be a major struggle and to be honest, I cant see us doing it this season.
The problem with that is there are a lot of people out there who think with the squad we have, we should be at least, very very close to top 4.
Its all about perspective and opinions I guess.

 

[1882]

I honestly mis-read the title and thought it said KILLING myself... was thinking that's pretty extreme, even for today!

 

[sammyspurs]

The problem with that is there are a lot of people out there who think with the squad we have, we should be at least, very very close to top 4.

Thats the key I guess.

I have been of the belief that we are at the very least, the 4th best team in the PL. I actually dont believe that anymore.

I think we are a solid top 6 team, that shouldnt complain too much with a 7th place finish. I used to think our players were vastly superior to Everton, Liverpool and Newcastle.

I dont think they are. I could see Dempsey, Hudd, Livermore, Siggy, Lennon, Gallas, Caulker, Dawson, BAE, Kaboul, Defoe, Brad, Lloris, Vertonghen, Walker, Naughton, Dembele at all of those clubs, and some even at smaller clubs.

IMO, thats too many players for a top 4 at worst club, to have, that wouldnt get into the teams above you.

Im aware, one or two could.

 

[Erik_Edman]

I don't think you're kidding yourself that this squad isn't strong enough to compete right now. However, I do disagree with your assessment that some of our key players might be overrated. I see this not as a case of our players being unable to sing in tune, but simply not having a shared hymn sheet to sing off of. We need rhythm, focus, structure, a plan to build around, and I think we're just missing that creativity at the core of our team to bring all of that. With another key creative player added in January, I reckon many of our players like Bale, Dembele, Dempsey, Siggy et. al. will start to snap into the roles that suit them best too.

It's tempting to start to slide towards re-evaluating the squad in the wake of such poor form but I really don't blame many of them personally for the results we've had so far. I think the heart and effort are there, it's just that all the energy and exertion is just not being channelled at the moment

 

[sammyspurs]

With another key creative player added in January, I reckon many of our players like Bale, Dembele, Dempsey, Siggy et. al. will start to snap into the roles that suit them best too.

Thats exactly what Im doubting now. I used to think Hudd was this sublime passer of the ball, controlling the pace of our play in a measured and disciplined way.

Now I just think he's fat, slow, and a little bit shit.

 

[Dru]

Thats exactly what Im doubting now. I used to think Hudd was this sublime passer of the ball, controlling the pace of our play in a measured and disciplined way.

Now I just think he's fat, slow, and a little bit shit.

Thats the thing with Hudd, he is a good passer of the ball but not much else. When his passing game is off he doesnt have a whole lot else. Suppose you could say that of a lot of players but we dont see the best of him enough.

 

[yiddo2786]

 

[Erik_Edman]

Hudd, along with many of our other best players, excelled in a settled side which benefitted from a number of bedded-in key players like Modric. They've been snapped out of one mould and it'll take time to fit them into another one. IMO they've all done enough to prove that they will still deliver in the long-term- Hudd's passing has been sublime at times this season, Bale has provided much of the intensity of last season while adding new dimensions to his game like goals with his right foot, etc. etc.

I understand the frustration with the players but today I didn't see a bad first XI- just one that wasn't settled enough to deal with a problem like Ade going off. You can blame AVB for the lack of rhythm and initiative in that respect, but for me it's just the way the squad is as a unit this season.

 

[Dru]

Hudd, along with many of our other best players, excelled in a settled side which benefitted from a number of bedded-in key players like Modric. They've been snapped out of one mould and it'll take time to fit them into another one. IMO they've all done enough to prove that they will still deliver in the long-term- Hudd's passing has been sublime at times this season, Bale has provided much of the intensity of last season while adding new dimensions to his game like goals with his right foot, etc. etc.

I understand the frustration with the players but today I didn't see a bad first XI- just one that wasn't settled enough to deal with a problem like Ade going off. You can blame AVB for the lack of rhythm and initiative in that respect, but for me it's just the way the squad is as a unit this season.

IMO, he isnt one of our best players

 

[sammyspurs]

Again, this thread is not about today.....why dont we talk about West Ham the other year? 27 shots and a 0-0 draw?

Or Blackpool? Norwich? Wigan?

Since Jol, we have suffered from the same things.

Piss poor set pieces - defending and taking.
Lack of bottle.
Lack of winning mentality.
Conceding late goals. Masses and masses of late goals.
Not holding leads.
Folding with a 3rd of the season left.
Not taking our chances in front of goal in crucial games.
Losing to shit teams.

The only constant is a core group of players, and some comings and goings that havent really changed much.

The brutal reality is that we have gone up one position from what Jol had us, despite the traditional top 4 never looking so shoddy at times.

 

[SadlerTHFC]

Completely understand your point sammyspurs about we haven't really got any further since the Martin Jol days. But isn't that because of Man City?

If they didn't get taken over, wouldn't we be more successful in terms of league position and being in the CL more?